We've been married for 20+ years. I was off my mission a few months and she was out of high school a few weeks. We dated before the mission and it kind of "worked out" afterward so we were married. Tons of pressure from the Bishop, families, etc. You know the drill. We started a family within a year. I worked two jobs to make ends meet and never finished college. She was a stay-at-home mom that supported me in every calling and assignment.

We resigned 8 years ago from the church. To her, the church is done and gone and she never thinks about it. To me, I'm still angry about how much time and energy I spent trying to live up to the church's expectations and fulfil every calling and pay tithing on the gross.

Last night she hit me with the "D" word.

She says she regrets missing out on her college and younger days. She thinks we got married for the wrong reasons and at the wrong time and wants to correct that. She wants to enjoy life.

Of couse, I'm too strict with the kids, I don't respect her for who she is, I don't appreciate her, I don't value her. Which of course, I'm not sure where that came from.

I offered to start counseling. I offered to change. I told her that I'd do whatever I needed to do to save our marriage. I'll start working out. Whatever I need to do I'll do it.

We've decided to stay together for the time being as there is no way she would be able to survive on her pay alone. We'll take it day by day and see where this ends up.

In the mean time I'm scared to death. I pictured myself growing old with her. I pictured us traveling the world, seeing new sights, experiencing new things. I didn't picture myself being divorced in my mid-40's.

For those of you who have been where I am what do I do and how do I handle it? I feel blindsided and am not sure where to turn for help.

Thoughts?

Sounds like she's going through some sort of mid-life crisis OR, for some reason she feel she has fallen out of love and you are still in love and committed to the relationship.

Does she really know how committed you are to the marriage, how you feel about her? Just wondering. I live in a marriage in which I do not feel free to communicate my joys or my unhappiness to my spouse. Sometimes women try to communicate with their husbands or partners and their men shut them down for one reason or another. I'm not saying you are one of these men--but perhaps if she'd go to counseling with you, you might learn more about how you may have contributed to the situation. (I know I'm not entirely innocent in the situation I find myself in with my marriage. I'm such an enabler!)

I really admire your committment and love for your wife. I hope that will help you resolve this situation and grow old with her as you desire. Good luck to you.

Yikes. I'm sorry you got blindsided by the "D" word.

Since I don't know you or your situation that well, all I can tell you is that counseling might be a good idea, if not for your marriage, then for you personally. If things have deteriorated to the point at which your wife has surprised you with the "D" word, you might be in need of some objective insight. Besides, divorce is one of the most stressful things you can go through.

One thing I will tell you is that it's generally not wise to change for someone else. You have to change because you want to change. If you change because someone else demands it, you will probably wind up very resentful. If you want to work out, by all means work out. It would probably do you some good and help relieve stress. But work out because YOU want to, not just because she expects you to. As for other changes you might make, that's where a good counselor can be beneficial. A good counselor can help you decide if her complaints about you have merit and whether or not you can modify things so that they become more workable.

Don't assume that you are the only person at fault. Relationships are give and take and it's pretty rare that one person is at fault. You can't be the only one who makes changes. And if she's made up her mind that she wants to split up, there may be nothing you can do. You have to cooperate with each other and saving your marriage will require work from both of you.

Finally, there is life after divorce. My husband and his ex wife split up after almost ten years. He was pretty devastated by the divorce and thought he would never be happy again. Guess what. He found me and we've enjoyed almost ten years together. He has told me many times that his relationship with me is 180 degrees different than the one he had with his ex. He's happier, healthier, and even wealthier, though the split didn't come without some significant sacrifices.

Hang in there and do think about getting some local support for yourself.

Glad you are staying together for now. Every day tell her how much you sympathize with her about the lost yrs. Tell her if your kids are mostly grown that this is the time for you both to have your good yrs. Travel, eat out at great restaurants, etc. YOU and your wife can do this together. Allow her the freedom she needs right now to experience a personal life too. Encorage her to take classes. Call her often....bring her flowers, text her, and do go to counseling. As a woman we often feel ignored by our mid forties - totally ignored. It is like all we did was support our hubbies for decades some of us(that was my case).....and then what? Be compassionate and empathize with her about what she is feeling. My ex never was able to do that. I am free of his uncaring attitude and life is good.

If in the end it doesn't work out, then carry on and be a good parent/grandparent if those yrs. are coming up. Maintain the good in who you are now....put the yrs. when the church had a hold on you in your past. Don't dwell on a relationship a woman no longer wants. What good is that. Just know you tried everything and be proud of that.

Been there.

IMO, it is possible to court and fall in love again. Try to consider it a wakeup call to put more into the marriage. The "I'm not sure where that came from" is a huge red flag. If your wife is significantly unfillfed in your relationship and you don't know why you've got a major shift to make. The book 5 love languages is a good place to start.

If you are willing to make a serious, strong effort to court her and re-win her love she will respond. Then you have to avoid getting lazy in the future.

She may need some more space in some areas that she feels stiffled.

You have to be careful not to turn it too much into it only being about her needs being met.

A good marriage counselor is a great idea. Especially if you can approach it in a way to rebuild your marriage and not as as forum to complaign about each other.

I understand how you feel. A few thoughts...I was in my mid-40's when I caught my beloved wife of 20+ years in a torried sexual affair with another man that had been going on for about a year. We were both TBM (BIC), etc., 5 beautiful children. I had also worked 2-3 jobs in the beginning. She was essentially living a double life. It devastated me, but I immediately forgave her on the condition that she would refrain. I kept close tabs on her for a few years, but found out that she had not dissolved the relationship completely. A guy can only take so much. I moved on and I am happily remarried to a very loving committed woman, who thinks I am a wonderful husband, friend, and lover. Been married 3 years now.

I am seeing some similarities in what your wife is saying to you and what my ex-wife said to me. At the time, my ex-wife blamed me for her affair. At first she insulted me, by comparing his size to my size. He was this big 6'5'' guy that had bigger muscle than me. But later, she also said that I didn't appreciate or value her. I was not sure where that came from either. I had habits in place from the beginning. Never a day went by that I did not tell her that I loved her multiple times a day, hugged/kissed her. I tyically went overboard on mothers day, her b-day, and our anniversary (e.g. 2 dozen roses plus a white rose for each child, etc). Lots of cards and little presents. It was hard for me to own her perception. At the time of her affair I also offered to start counseling. I offered to change. I also told her that I'd do whatever I needed to do to save our marriage. Now that she has been on her own, without me, I have observed that the guy she had the affair with - dumped her. She has gone on to guy after guy on Plentyoffish. My kids tell me she's had s*x with 20 guys probably. She even got pregnant by one guy, whom she had a few dates with. She continues to be very promiscous, all the while still clinging on to TSCC. She has told my teenage daughers that she has all of these boyfriends because likewise she says she regrets missing out on her college days.

Like you, I had not pictured myself being divorced in my mid-40's.

My thoughts:
She is not on the same page as you. She is not committed to you right now. In every marriage there should be full committment, friendship, and intimacy. Maybe she is having an affair right now? You should should find out. I confront my ex many times, and she lied to my face. Instead, I suggest that don't confront, but rather observe. If she is not having an affair, then I would go to a non-mormon counselor to see if you can rekindle what you had. Just because she percieves that you are deficit, doesn't necessarily make it so. Nevertheless, a counselor could help explore. Divorce is very messy, very expensive, and hard on the children. Try to avoid at all costs if possible. Good luck my friend. If you need to talk to a guy whose been through it, ask susan for my e-mail.

You say that for her the 'church' is done with and for you, you're still angry at it for all the time, energy, money, etc it took from you.
That right there could explain the rest.

I know you are probably totally focused on saving the marriage and avoiding divorce. But one of the best things you can do right now, is to remember to do things for yourself. Do something that reminds you of what you are good at, of what your gifts are. Something that will keep your mind from obsessing over this.

Divorce is not something you have complete control over. You want to make sure that if everything falls into the crapper, you've still got a life for yourself. That you are a competent person capable of enjoying life on your own. This may also indirectly help your relationship.

The power balance in your relationship now seems too skewed towards one person. If your wife thinks she can threaten divorce and you immediately offer to do anything to save it, then she has all the power. I would observe how she uses this power. I don't know if this the true situation or not, just something for you to keep in mind.

This past weekend, a good friend of mine from college showed up at my doorstep. His wife left him a few months ago after 13 years together. He, too, is completely mystified as to why she feels unfulfilled in the marriage. Being able to look at it from the woman's standpoint, however, I thought it was immediately obvious why. The dude was obviously emotionally lazy and completely passive. Example: He told me that one of the things that infuriated her was his refusal to answer a question as important as "should we have another child?" in a definitive way. It drove her nuts that he didn't feel strongly one way or the other, about much of anything. He just shrugged at me and said, "Yeah, I don't get stressed about anything. Nothing bothers me." And I looked him straight in the eye and said, "Well, maybe you should get stressed and let things bother you. Because she thinks you don't give a damn about anything, and that probably includes her." I chalk it up to poor communication all around. She's not being explicitly clear about what she needs from him (or she has and he's completely missed the point/dismissed/diminished/denied any responsibility) and he's not demonstrating to her what matters to him.

I figured she was tired of making all the decisions and doing all the emotional heavy lifting in the marriage. I tried to talk to him about it; trying to get him to start taking responsibility for his part in the break up, but he's just. totally. clueless. Maybe after some time and distance from her, he will gain some clarity and insight.

I mention that because it kinda of sounds like this is pretty common: the men are going along, thinking everything is great and they haven't noticed how miserable their wife is. And that's why the wives feel undervalued and unappreciated. Because she thinks it's patently obvious that she's miserable but her best friend and partner in life hasn't even noticed.

So my advice to you -- aside from getting counseling, where you will probably be asked to do something like this -- is to ASK your DW WHY she feels undervalued, disrespected, and underappreciated. Then SHUT UP and LISTEN to what she says. Do not interrupt her. Do not argue. Do not justify yourself. Do not make excuses for yourself. Do not get defensive. Do not shift blame back on to her, even if it's her fault and you can prove it with charts and graphs and website citations. Do not come back at her with all of her flaws and imperfections and everything she does "wrong". Just listen. THAT's showing respect, appreciation, and her value to you.

I find I start feeling that way when I'm with someone and I start talking about something that's been heavily weighing on my mind and I wanna bounce it off my best friend. If the first things out of his mouth are: to deny my issue is very important, or to diminish its meaning to me, or to try to "fix" the problem for me, then I don't think he's listening to me. If it's important to ME, then it's important. Saying something like, "Oh, well, it's not that big a deal, you'll figure it out. Wanna go have sex?" is pretty much just diminishing her feelings and disrespecting her completely as well as objectifying her and making yourself just one more thing that is making demands of her time, attention and energy.

Don't change who you are or what you do for hobbies. Change how you communicate and learn how to listen with empathy. If you want to work out, go work out; if not, then don't. But if the wife doesn't feel like her husband is an emotional safe place to land, she will go find someone who does listen to her and who shows empathy and who acts like her concerns matter and are important.

Finally, I'll just say that, as a never-married single person, I'm relieved to learn that it's not just me, being single, who gets this crap from men. Turns out, it looks like many married women have the exact same problem and that is men think they have a good bead on things so they stop doing the hard emotional work in the relationship. They think, "Hey, I've got a good job, I'm providing well for the family, we have a nice house, I'm married to a hottie, the sex is good, we have great kids who are all doing well, the job is awesome... my life is perfect." And they've completely forgotten to notice or act like they care if the wife is thinking and feeling the same way and if she's not, it seems like guys are too lazy or disinterested to do anything about it because then they're blindsided when the wife wanders off to spend her time with someone who acts like she matters to them. Being told I love you a hundred times a day is meaningless in comparison to someone who says, "You seem like you're really down lately. What's been bothering you?" (And then he shuts up and LISTENS to her, to demonstrate that the things that bother her MATTER to him and are just as important to him as they are to her.)

Also, this door totally swings both ways: women shut down and stop communicating about their needs because they've maybe tried a few times, and he either passively ignored her, diminished her concerns, argued with her (devaluing), denied that there was even a problem, or pushed the blame back on her.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 02:44PM by dogzilla.

Excellent advice.

This is excellent.

If she's feeling undervalued, unappreciated, etc - THERE IS A REASON.

Ask her. Tell her you need to understand how she's feeling unappreciated, and what you're doing to make her feel that way so you can correct the error.

Her feelings may be off - you may not agree with her analysis, but those kinds of feelings can poison a relationship beyond repair if they're not dealt with.

Thank you.

Just because I've never been married, that doesn't mean I've never been in a relationship and I haven't ever observed a marriage. The reason I'm not married is because I haven't ever found anyone who I thought was really listening empathetically. Even with men I've dated long-term, I see their eyes glaze over if I'm talking about something intensely personal that doesn't involve sex, sports, or sandwiches. So I shut down and pretty soon, we're disconnected.

That, and I just spent 36 hours getting an up-close-and-far-too-personal look at a marriage that's dissolving. But I've known the husband for 25 years, so I know what he's like and how he operates in the world. I didn't need to even meet the wife to have an idea of what this marriage looks like from her point of view. It's easy to see, sometimes, when you're not bitterly embroiled in the situation yourself. I get to be an impartial observer quite often, peering in at other people's relationships, so I've managed to learn a lot.

Excellent Dogzilla!

Lord knows you don't need relationship or especially marriage advice from my kind, but I have made a lot of observations from places I've been. So I'll pipe up. Everything dogzilla said is right. Learning to listen is the most important skill a man can have, and we're not typically socialized to do that so well. If your arms become a sanctuary from the world for her, a place where her every concern is heard, empathized and addressed productively, and she always feels better after you've put your mark on whatever the situation is, that relationship won't fail (as long as you don't go out and get chlamydia from a streetwalker--then ALL bets are off!). It's not that you have to be a gushing wuss; quite the opposite, actually. You need to be steady and always ready to be on her side, and let her know that she is loved and respected for how she is, even if she's wrong.

There's one other issue I'm cognizant of, and that's where she says she missd out on life. That's a TOUGH one, man... because as TBMs, you did miss out on exactly that. I truly believe you've gotta do it gracefully when you're young, or less gracefully when you're old, but you've gotta do your livin'. That doesn't mean you have to divorce (unless she's dead set on that, in which case the better course is to start planning your own life), but you CAN do that together. It will depend on whether you'd really WANT to do what it takes, or if you're dead set in your ways and want to "continue to be responsible grown-ups." I've actually seen people fix this sort of problem before, but it typically requires a radical paradigm shift and a lot of open-minded thinking. If so, you have to ask what types of experiences she feels she missed out on and go from there. If you want to save the marriage, odds are you'll have to accommodate them (note: not compromise, but actually accommodate them). These are questions to ask yourself before going any further. Ask what she means by it, and consider if that type of change is something you'd be ok with.

I'm sorry, man. This is super rough, and mostly I'm just empathizing with you, but I do know that people HAVE come back from this, if that's all your wondering right now.

+1