- "He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people"

So the fact that today there are people who criticize JS proves that he was a prophet. Because for obvious reason to TBM's if JS was in fact a false prophet then he would be universally adored by all who have heard of him.

The reality is that his name was already being slandered when he made that statement. It was hardly a prophecy - more an observation. But most TBMs don't even ponder it that much.

I've heard some tbms bring up that passage when explaining away the "persecutions" against him

Yeah I love that line that tbm's give about how persecution and criticism makes the church true.

The Jews have been persecuted far and away more than mormons could ever comprehend. Does that mean we should all convert to Judism?

The original telling of the story said it was "Nephi" and not "Moroni" that appeared to him. Is that also "proof" that he was a prophet?

Yes, of that I'm also aware. Good observation

conspired with him, and he fabricated a book that is easily proven false, but the sheeple choose to believe, because of the circular thinking: "he said he was a profit".

As far as "persecution". TBM's confuse being presented with facts, challenges or debate as persecution. It's not the same. Showing members their so-called religion is a fraud is not the same as prejudice, and bigotry.

i don't know if the passage has been modified with the latest revisions to fit the mormon reality. they like to play victims.

either way, it seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. horny joe saw it coming.

He sure was one slicko fella, wasn't he now? Expert at covering his @$$ very nicely! He was good at making statements like that! He made it so either way he came out smellin' like a rose! That's a fer-sure con man for ya!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 03:53AM by The StalkerDog™.

Well he wasn't as slick as he liked to pretend he was. After all, that whole nauvoo expositor thing didn't work out well for him.

JS was a Prophet according to JS...

A VAIN PROPHET WILL BE THROWN DOWN: This prophecy by Joseph Smith, although it was fulfilled quickly and literally, is rarely cited by Mormons. July 1828. D&C 3:4. "For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him."

FULFILLED!: On May 26, 1844, Joseph Smith made the following statement in a public sermon (Brodie p 374, HC 6:408-412):
"Come on, ye persecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! For I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet."

At this time he was secretly married polygamously to over 30 women, some of them wives of men still living. Many who knew of these secret marriages accused him of changing the doctrine of the church to satisfy his own carnal desires, in violation of the Book of Mormon (Jacob 2:23-29, 3:5) and D&C 49:16.

Almost exactly one month after this boast, on June 27, 1844, he was killed by his enemies in a gun battle at Carthage Jail.

http://packham.n4m.org/prophet.htm

"I'm making a lot of bullsh!t statements (like this one), so people will accuse me of making bullsh!t statements."

ROTF, LMAF.....

LOL LOL

Dear, Dear Stray Mutt:

I'm sending you a cyber high five!!!!

LOL LOL LOL

14 And thus prophesied Joseph, saying: Behold, that seer will the Lord bless; and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise, which I have obtained of the Lord, of the fruit of my loins, shall be fulfilled. Behold, I am sure of the fulfilling of this promise;

15 And his name shall be called after me; and it shall be after the name of his father. And he shall be like unto me; for the thing, which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand, by the power of the Lord shall bring my people unto salvation.

How convenient for your agenda is it to write a book wherein an "ancient prophet" prophesies about YOU?!? It's spayshul is what it is!

That is the commonly held view. But does it really mean that?
Joseph Smiths lineage is Gentile. The author is not a Gentile. Thus, the one who is prophesied would be a Native American, as a descendant of Lehi.

After being BiC, I'm still confused about whether I'm a Gentile or not myself. LOL!

How can we not see what a non- prophecy it is for someone to say "some people will like me, and some people won't" !

As e2 pointed out, the "prophecy" was written at a time when Joseph Smith was already reviled by many, many people.

In the mind of the TBM, the "prophecy" was issued in 1823 (i.e. when the angel allegedly visited Joseph for the first time). In reality, the "prophecy" did not exist until 1838, when Joseph Smith's history was finally fully evolved and written down. One could argue that the "prophecy" was originally recorded in 1835 by Oliver Cowdery in the Messenger and Advocate (http://www.irr.org/mit/first-vision/1834-35-account.html), since it mentions Joseph becoming a target for derision and a by-word (http://www.mormonhistoricsitesfoundation.org/USA/newYork/palmyra/smithLogHome/stories/_moroni3_pfv.htm) for his part in restoring the gospel. Even the earlier 1835 date, though, is well after Smith and the Mormons had made numerous enemies and been the target of publications mocking their miraculous claims.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 03:34PM by facsimile3.