My parents raised me in Mormonism. They forced me to go to church, play "ward sports," say the prayer, give talks, go to girls' camp....

and then?

And then they decided the Mormon church was full of crap, so they sent me to the "community church," which was just as full of crap, except even moreso because then ALL MY FRIENDS AT SCHOOL harassed me about it and made me into the "ward project." My parents THEN forced me to read the Bible, say the prayer, give my allowance money to the collection plate.....

and guess what?

My parents then decided that all of Christianity was full of crap, so they just suddenly stopped talking about any of it.

And NO MENTION of what they put me through. No apology, no open dialog, none of the usual parental crap like, "Oh, we were just doing the best we could," or "we only wanted what was best for you."

Nothing. But. Crickets.

Mormonism, Community Church, it's all the same BS. You pray to some imaginary eavesdropper who would just as soon kill all your whole family in a car crash because you said "shit" out loud one day than actually stop a war or end a famine. Little tiny kids get "special" attention from both churches -- just so that they can brainwash the kids while they're young! Special "sunbeam" songs in Mormon church -- special "childrens' bible story hour" in community church. Don't worry, kids. Your parents are just doing to you what mine did to me. Dragging you along through their own personal spiritual quest, and don't expect an apology when they up and decide that hey, maybe Islam is the new black! Or Scientology, why not? Or Catholicism, or Wicca, or maybe they'll make me read Richard Dawkins' ranting essays on how the pope ought to be murdered in the town square (because secular atheism is oh so kind, moral, and altruistic!).

I want an apology from my parents. I want them to say, "guyfawkes, we effed up. Sorry for forcing you through bizarre religious rituals and wasting countless hours of your precious life on our own soul-search. Sorry for subjecting you to brainwashing, rituals, chants, and busywork just because we were feeling worthless about ourselves and had to show the world how "perfect" our little obedient, god-fearin' church-going kiddies were."

What a waste.

They make mistakes.

Your parents caused you grief. They probably do owe you an apology, but they aren't likely to offer it. Now that you're an adult I think it's up to you to recover as best you can. Sorry, I wish life could be more fair for all of us and hope this doesn't blight your life too much. Hopefully, you'll be able to learn from their mistakes, not that any of us like learning the hard way, but sometimes we have no choice.

I'm sorry I laughed all the way thru your post. Imaginary eavesdropper. ROFL. Sorry. Hope that apology will do.

How, the whole entire time, they'd point to every single other family in the whole damn neighborhood, and say how much better our family was than them. See THAT family? They let their kids play barefoot on the front lawn -- we're WAY BETTER than they are! Oh, and see THAT family? They have less money than we do, so we're WAY better than they are. And THAT family? They're all fat, so obviously god hates them WAY more than he hates us. We are the super-special, extra-chosen, hella-awesomest family in the whooooole state!

What a joke.

Yeah, parents aren't perfect. But screw perfection. I'd have settled for honest. Honest with themselves that is.

That's my father's motto. And he was a shitty father. Left me so messed up that I joined a cult fer godsake!

Still and all he kinda has a point. (I'm just not sure what it is!)

Unless he's holding a magic remote control that has the power to rewind time, and has planned on re-casting all my family members with Brad Pitt, Ryan Reynolds, Johnny Depp, and Zach Efron.

What I want is a happy NOW. Thus the $500 a month in therapy. Thanks Mom! Thanks Dad! Wish I could send you the bill.

Oh, and by the way, my therapist says I have "old testament-style thinking." Wonder where that came from!

(Is it any wonder people my age aren't too keen on getting married and having kids?)

You ain't never gonna get an apology from them. They are incapable of giving it to you.

The first step (actually you've taken the FIRST step by getting into therapy) toward resolving these issues from childhood is letting go of wanting something you cannot have! (Damn, I think that's 4 Noble Truth #3--I am sooo Zen!)

Listen, I feel your pain. Both my parents SUCKED! They both had personality disorders (M-histrionic/narcissist & F-histrionic.)

I was in therapy for 15 years and I calculated my insurance company paid much of the $50,000 in therapy it took for me to fix myself. (Luckily, I only had to pay a sh*tload of copays.)

But it worked! It worked for me and it can work for you. It is a LONG, TOUGH SLOG and your anger and frustration is a necessary and legitimate part of it. But you can be gloriously happy and fulfilled in life once you get done and you'll see increasing happiness and relief and satisfaction in your life as you progress along the road.

To this day whenever I think of either of them I usually follow it up with "thank God he/she is dead!" Sometimes parents are flat out sh*tty and sure as hell don't deserve the love and respect of their children. Sad to say, but it is very true.

You were shafted. It's true. Life isn't fair. But you can fix yourself and you're worth the effort.

Good luck.

That is all. Just :-)

You're responsible for the solution...

My only advice: Stay away from cab driving... It does offer a lot of short term comforts, but its long-term effects can be problematic...

Lol. Thanks for the laugh. I sort of think of driving a cab would be kind of like being a bartender.

Of course there's no drinking on the job, a good thing in my case...

At least there isn't supposed to be...

Ah, I see were getting some proxy apologies for dysfunctional parents below...

Some Mormon tendencies just won't go away...

That's not the bad news. That's the good news!!!

There's NO GREATER accomplishment!

Ouch. The strawman rears its ugly head once again.

So Dawkins is a ranter and you are not ?

"(because secular atheism is oh so kind, moral, and altruistic!)" .... Huh ?

Maybe you can explain to us just what "secular Atheism" is.


And then you can point out just where Dawkins said "pope ought to be murdered in the town square".

You sound just like another member of the illiterati.

I don't know what a straw man is, sorry. Is is like a red herring?

I didn't say I wasn't a ranter. I can rant with the best of them! In fact, I could beat Dawkins in a rant-off.

And okay, so maybe Dawkins didn't call for the pope's murder in the town square, but he did call to have England arrest the pope as soon as his plane touched down, which I think is the exact opposite of kind, moral, and altruistic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the pope. But my parents are like, "Secular atheism is the most moral of all the isms!" And then I see their poster child for secular atheism trying to use the force of the state to kidnap someone as soon as his plane lands. That's not moral. It isn't moral -- at least in my opinion -- to use government power to arrest people you disagree with. Sounds like the gestapo to me, and I told my parents that, too. Because seriously? Who knows if Catholicism would have been the next monkey-vine they grabbed.

They all seem the same to me. They all hate each other, and use whatever means they can get their hands on to try to crush the other guy.

The most moral thing to do is walk away, and walk your kids away from all of it -- the bickering, "THE HAND OF LAW," the who's better than who neverending argument...

I'm just sick of it. What's the belief in nothing? I have that.

guyfawkes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know what a straw man is, sorry. Is is
> like a red herring?
>
> I didn't say I wasn't a ranter. I can rant with
> the best of them! In fact, I could beat Dawkins in
> a rant-off.
>
> And okay, so maybe Dawkins didn't call for the
> pope's murder in the town square, but he did call
> to have England arrest the pope as soon as his
> plane touched down, which I think is the exact
> opposite of kind, moral, and altruistic. Don't get
> me wrong, I'm not defending the pope. But my
> parents are like, "Secular atheism is the most
> moral of all the isms!" And then I see their
> poster child for secular atheism trying to use the
> force of the state to kidnap someone as soon as
> his plane lands. That's not moral. It isn't moral
> -- at least in my opinion -- to use government
> power to arrest people you disagree with. Sounds
> like the gestapo to me, and I told my parents
> that, too. Because seriously? Who knows if
> Catholicism would have been the next monkey-vine
> they grabbed.
>
> They all seem the same to me. They all hate each
> other, and use whatever means they can get their
> hands on to try to crush the other guy.
>
> The most moral thing to do is walk away, and walk
> your kids away from all of it -- the bickering,
> "THE HAND OF LAW," the who's better than who
> neverending argument...
>
> I'm just sick of it. What's the belief in nothing?
> I have that.

I agree with you. Dawkins is a ranter.He is also an intolerant missionary for his views. How is this any better than intolerant Christian mishies? You'll find that certain posters are very fond of the strawman analogy and use it whether it applies or not

Ranters like yourself never seem to have an argument.

You just like to spew your hatred at your strawman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2010 07:06PM by Dave the Atheist.

I really don't know what a straw man is, so I guess you'll see another one from me at some point.

Why am I not surprised.

You admitted telling a lie about Dawkins.

I would guess your credibility about anything else is about the same.

I have no credibility with Dave the Atheist. The only way I'll sleep tonight is by crying myself there.

My post was not about Dawkins, it was about my parents. I don't know why I'm even explaining that to you. My post is about how difficult it is to be dragged along through someone else's spiritual quest. It's fine if someone else wants to visit different churches and find out what's right FOR THEM. It's not so fine when they make me do it, and when each time, they tell me THIS is the one! THIS is the best of the best. We've been to those other lesser belief systems, but THIS ONE is infallible this time!

The first few times, I got my hopes up. I wanted it to be "the one." And when it didn't feel right for me, I faked it, and I hated myself for not having it "work" for me. And at first I was relieved when they jumped ship and went to another one that promised to be better. But they were never better, and it was always a ship-jumping looming in the distance. AFTER I got ostracized by friends (for a choice that wasn't even mine, I was just a kid). AFTER they made me hand over my allowance. AFTER they dragged me to spend a nice sunny day in just another church building or waste another evening reading yet another lecture or book chapter or scripture passage. I was a teenager, I was a teenager! It was embarassing.

Their spiritual quest may have meant something to THEM, but it wasn't MY QUEST. It left me hollow. And it left me wondering why they couldn't just spend time with ME or any of their other kids, instead of always looking for "what's out there." THIS TIME for sure! THIS ONE will be the one!

Nah. None of them are.

If that's what you call a straw man, then yes, I'll write straw men all night long.

It seems like you think I'm bashing atheism. What I'm bashing is jumping on the bandwagon of whatever "ism" you think is perfect and infallible, and ignoring the inconsistencies, and ignoring the lame crap that the figureheads of whatever "ism" you choose do. I certainly don't believe in god. Maybe the difference is that I don't believe in any "ism" at all. I won't find any answers by adopting someone else's belief system.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t

You are hijacking the thread. FYI, there is no board rule that we all have to like Dawkins. Give it up and let the OP get back to the subject.

apology from them about anything.

Stay with the therapy. It sure helped me. And, now my motto is: the best revenge is success (however you define that).

...whether you chose to accept it or not, you didn't learn much about christianity at the Community Church.

what the fuck they're doing. I sure didn't with my three children. Can you accept that none of us really knows anything and take it from there?

They were dragged through uber-Mormonism by me and their dad their entire childhoods. Like your parents, I suddenly "woke up" and we returned to Catholicism (I had been an adult convert). My kids were forced through a year's worth of prep classes and multiple rituals that culminated with baptism/confirmation during a special evening mass.

My mom pointed out the tears in one daughter's eyes during her baptism . . . assuming, of course, that DD was touched by the "Holy Spirit" and moved by the ceremony.

But I knew *exactly* why my daughter was crying.

She was pissed at hell at me for jerking her out of Mormonism and forcing her into Catholicism.

I've since apologized to her.

And I'll apologize to you, too.

Parents sometimes screw up. We do the best that we can with the information we have at the time.

Best of luck as you find your own path in life, darlin'.

;o)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2010 07:17PM by shannon.

They screwed up.

All parents do. Some do more than others.

I'm also sorry on their behalf that they can't seem to either realize their error or apologize for it. I apologized to my children a LOT while they were growing up. I considered it good parenting as it modeled how to deal with a mistake. :)

If they're like my parents, you might as well take my dad's advice, hold one hand out in front of you and the other one under your ass, and see which one fills up first.

:-)

what a blessing!

would have been nice if you could have found yourself an apartment, but you were a kid.

We ALL had to endure our parents' "quest" or their smoking, or whatever their shit was. It's called LIFE and some of it is a damn shame.

When I was growing up I had two parents that smoked and fought about Catholicism and Protestantism while driving and waving their cigarettes. Occasionally the cherry would fall off a cig that was being ashed out their window and it would fly into the back window and land on your lap AND BURN YOUR DRESS! OR land in your hair and then the car swerved all over with me and my sister screaming in the back and we'd pull over, jump out of the car and do the cherry dance, as we called it. I still have a scar and I WAS A TEENAGER!

There were no such thing as seatbelts. WHen the car stopped abruptly, my mother would rap me across the chest with her arm "to keep me safe." Too hold me back so I wouldn't hit the dashboard. IT HURT and I WAS A PRETEEN with little budding boobs. OMG

Oh, and my mother drank. One night she was loaded when I got home from a dance with friends and she insisted on sniffing the breath of each and every one and asking if they had been drinking. Yep. AND I WAS A TEENAGER--A TEENAGER. I cried myself to sleep ---and we were not Mormon.

Another time she went over to the neighbors with our hose in her hand and sprayed them while they sat on their own porch (because their son wrote "F*CK" in liquid fertilizer on her dichondra lawn.) She was from Columbia.

Parents can be unbelievable.

When I was raising kids, occasionally one of the kids would fall out of the car...and, when I had four little boys, I spanked them. ANd when it was foggy and I couldn't see the road, I had one of the kids open the door and tell me if I was close to the line in the middle of the road. AND THEY WERE JUST KIDS! With a single mom half crazy with too little money and too many kids.

I did the best I could. I feel bad what my kids went through--but they always knew I loved them more than anything. They say I didn't take their needs and feelings into considerations when I made decisions. That's because I couldn't tell them the reasons. I couldn't say "We are moving because I have a stalker...or we're moving because the neighbor's teenager molested your sister...or we're moving because the roof fire was arson from the crazy lady's husband who hates your dad, or your friend Jamie's father keeps trying to kiss Mommy."

Your parents were trying to be the BEST family--they were looking for the truth so they could raise you right. Have you ever thought they might have been trying hard for YOU? So you could grow up with the answers they thought were out there. THey were wrong and you ended up jerked all over, but they were trying to get it right.

You should let some humor lighten your load. Jay Mahr, the comedian, wrote a HILARIOUS book about parenting called, "No Wonder My Parents Drank." He says this about what he's learned. "Your parents gave you everything they had. It might have felt like nothing, but it was all they had."

I don't know if this helps or hurts. I cannot undo the pain my kids went through, but I can be there for them now. That's all anybody can do.

Don't let the Dave the Atheist get you down. Your rant is about your feelings. They are totally valid and you are the only expert about those so he can shut his pie hole.

My point is that your parents are human beings who gave you all they had, too. Hope you get a good night's sleep. It's over now, thank goodness.


Anagrammy

I think you need to grow up, seriously.

And I think you should be totally grateful to them! At least you did not stay mired in the LDS crap for most of your entire adult life, raise your own kids in it, then learn the truth and leave and get divorced over it and go through constant trauma with your kids thinking you are possessed of Satan, unwilling to let you be with their kids, your own grandkids, for fear your very evil influence as an apostate might influence them.

Be grateful, and quit your crying. You, IMO, are just damn lucky.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2010 12:16AM by think4u.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmUfkyItPic&feature=related

"This Be the Verse"
-- by Philip Larkin

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.