This isn't so much Mormon related as it is general Christianity related.

The bible teaches the first and greatest commandment is to love the Lord with "all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." And the second one is to love thy neighbour.

I've always had problems with these. I've always thought a loving God would put the commandment to love thy neighbour to be number one, and why would he even have a commandment dedicated entirely to making us love him? I can see that it kind of makes sense if we did love him, as it's taught that he created everything, but still!

For some reason I can picture him throwing a tantrum yelling "Why won't they love me!??!?"

Any thoughts?

In the NT, when Jesus said this, he was answering the Pharisees question by quoting the Old Testament in Deuteronomy. "Love the Lord thy God with all thy hear, soul, mind and strength" was a commandment God gave his chosen people- the Jews- to instruct them to remain faithful to God. It's in a block of scripture where God is telling them not to go off and serve other gods, and that He was there God.

I don't know if that helps at all... but that's the context.

So, God in the OT was worried about having his little pets be faithful. He is jealous that they might give attention to other gods while he insists there are no other gods. Then he later sends an avatar of himself in human form that tells everyone to love their neighbors.

I have to wonder why a god would need his creations to be faithful to him or need to tell them who to love in the first place (God sounds needy). He could supposedly create people with that wired in their brains. But no, he apparently likes to create flawed humans and then tell them what to do - and inconsistently at that.

The god of the OT was really psychotic. Jesus was the same god on meds apparently. :-) J/K

Israel was a theocracy first and foremest. They had God commanding all manner of insanity and imposing crazy rules every time they felt like they were losing their grip on the people. When they say to Love God first, they mean Israel.

Maybe Jesus decided to try to put things in perspective by showing that it was the people who mattered most. After all, it was the poor and the outcast and the sick to whom He went first. And outside of his own religious duties, he did not command people to go to church, but to bring salvation out of the church to the people.

and then carrot-stick him through representatives while the whole time saying it's all about having faith.

And doing such a bad job at it that God had to destroy the first batch in the flood like the first batch of pancakes...

Then started over and screwed up again (God? Us?) he had to come down personally and straighten things up through the torture and killing of his own son (sublime?)

But that even failed, so the whole business had to be restored through a pedophile.

It's just so hard to have respect, let alone love for this God, so I'm not at all surprised that he has to throw down an order. If he only had access to therapy, a good psychologist would have told him to earn his respect through consistency and love like we who are ostensibly made in his image have to.


Anagrammy

MollyNeverMo is right. And the Mormons don't listen and think that there are many who will become Gods if they just follow the dictates of the Mormon religion. What a bunch of bunk.

Totally agree kentish.

so there will be no question of where the tithes and offerings should go.

How to Operate a Cult 101.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2010 03:21AM by atheist&happy:-).

Christopher Hitchens does a review of the 10 Commandments in the April 2010 issue of Vanity Fair ("It's still about greed and money" issue with Michael Douglas as Gordon Gekko on the cover.)

First Hitchens points out there are actually 3 or 4 versions of the 10 Commandments. Then he does an excellent job of pointing out the serious shortcomings and outright tyranny of these commandments. REALLY, is the best "God" could do??

The first commandment: I am the LORD thy God.. thou shalt have no other gods before me. (This implies that there are in fact, other gods, but not as awe-worthy as him.) I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. (The collective punishment of future children for their grandparents failure to sufficiently ass-kiss and grovel before Mr. Jealous is not an especially moral promise...)

Commandment Five: Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD God giveth thee. (Well finally! This is the only commandment that includes an inducement instead of an implied threat. By all means, respect the elders, but why is there nothing to forbid child abuse?? Insolence on the part of children is punishable by death (Leviticus 20:9), and a rude or cruel child is a bad thing, but a cruel or brutal parent can do infinitely more harm. Yet even in a long an exhaustive list of prohibitions, parental neglect or sadism is never once condemned.

Also conspicuous by their absence: does not prohibit rape or slavery.

Galatians 5:14:
"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

NO tithing! NO church attendance requirement. NO "obedience". NO shaming. Merely a single, simple good rule of thumb for how to relate to others.

Here (below, see link) is a man who embodies the above verse (and many thanks to Matt, who originally posted the link to this 2+ min. video)

http://www.wimp.com/wecould/

Perhaps Jesus felt that loving God was for our benefit rather than God's. I agree that a perfect God would not need our love or devotion, but some people, at least, need to love God.I can't read the mind of a man who died 2000 years ago, but that is a possible interpretation.

That should be the greatest commandment. Think about it: if god is such a good guy, why would his "greatest commandment" be for everyone else to love HIM above all else? And why would it be for everyone to love someone else above all else?

A truly loving god would give all of us the gift of loving ourselves despite our faults. We'd have love for ourselves regardless of whether someone else loved us. If we really are his "children," wouldn't you want your child to develop healthy self-love, to not have that child constantly put herself or himself second to every Tom Dick or Harry that came by? Wouldn't you want that child to have the self-esteem to know her own self-worth? (Which is infinite? Infinite love?)

People who truly love themselves (not in a selfish narcisistic way) have no need for gods of any stripe.

And that's why Christian churches like to teach you that loving yourself is selfish and wrong, and that you're always ALWAYS second to someone or something else. No Matter What.

...you that loving yourself is is selfish and wrong." Guess I've been going to the wrong christian churches all these years.

Most of them teach that humans have a "sin-nature," as in, born sinners. That we're worthless unless we accept Jesus as our own personal save-yoor. That we should be "Christ-like," whatever that means.

Oh, and that the greatest commandment is to love the LORD above ALL ELSE (as in, above yourself). So obviously if you love yourself ABOVE the LORD, then that's wrong, because god commanded the very opposite.

guyfawkes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of them teach that humans have a
> "sin-nature," as in, born sinners. That we're
> worthless unless we accept Jesus as our own
> personal save-yoor. That we should be
> "Christ-like," whatever that means.
>
> Oh, and that the greatest commandment is to love
> the LORD above ALL ELSE (as in, above yourself).
> So obviously if you love yourself ABOVE the LORD,
> then that's wrong, because god commanded the very
> opposite.

I am not that religious but a priest once explained to me that original sin means mankind's tendency to be selfish. I can't argue with that. Just look around you. People are selfish, greedy and have a great tendency to mess everything up. A certain amount of selfishness is necessary for survival, but many people carry it way too far. It is all, "I Me, and Mine" to quote an old Beatles' song.

Being self centered is discouraged by churches, but I have never heard a church teach that a sense of self worth and a good self image is wrong. I guess it depends on what your definition of self love is.If loving yourself means that everything is all about you and to hell with everyone else, then, yes, it is wrong.ciopath does.That is pretty much what a so

...that mankind is fallen and has a sin nature. It does not, however, teach we mankind is worthless. "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us." Christianity teaches that God reached out to us to offer his grace even while we were sinners. If he thought qwe were worthless, he wouldn't have bothered. God wants us to love him for out benefit...not for his...but so that we can inherit all that he has.

I don't want to inherit anything from him. I certainly don't want to feel obligated to love him because he murdered his own son violently in my name. I never asked him to do that. I never asked Jesus to die for me or god to kill for me. How can it be "for me" if I never wanted him to do it in the first place?

The whole thing is macabre and silly.

I think God is willing to accpet your choices...he doesn't force anyone. I think he will offer you his prevenient grace throughout your life, but the ultimate choice is yours.

As a (nevermo) Christian, I would say that loving God comes first because without loving Him, loving others and loving ourselves can't be achieved to its fullest extent. God is not some insecure dictator, simultaneously cowering and barking orders at His people. He is sufficient all to Himself. The commandments to love God, love others, and love ourselves (which was presumed in the New Testament to be a natural occurrence) are meant for our good, not His. If we think God needs us, we have an overly inflated sense of self-importance that belies any sort of lack of "loving ourselves."

Some of y'all are envisioning a god in your own image, a god who is selfish and needs us to kowtow in order to prop up his failing self-esteem. I known a God who is love, justice, and peace, a God who doesn't need us but who knows our need for Him.

Well said Elle Bee.

According to traditional Christian belief, God did not kill his son because Jesus IS God. God sacrificed himself.He did not requre it of anyone else. I'm not saying that is what I believe or what you should believe, but it is the traditional Christian, not Mormon, belief.

Consider: For those who believe, if we put God first everything else falls into place. It is basically putting first things first. It is not an ego thing for God, but at a superficial level it might seem that way.

The thing is, God wants to know you, but it will only be on his terms, not yours. That is hard for most people, especially former mormons!