That's what Mormons claim, right? Well, read this statement from a Catholic apologist, substitution "prophet" for "pope."

>> If we try to figure out what’s morally right and wrong or what the Bible really means based solely on our experiences of God, we’re leaving out one of the most precious gift that God has given us. A living church built on the rock of the papacy. God left us the popes to speak for him. And it’s a good thing he did. Because otherwise our teachings, which have stayed constant ever since Christ gave them to us in the beginning, could have gotten corrupted and changed. We need the popes to remind us of what the truth really is in the face of ever-changing cultural opinion. Even the worst popes, you know, those who you’ve heard about who were murderers or had mistresses or ate ice cream in bed have never altered church teaching in the least. How is that possible? Because while he may not be personally holy, Christ has made their position holy and guards them from teaching in error. That way his Church will always be like him. True. <<

Sound familiar?

OMG! Wow.

Thats crazy!! Wish I would have had this when I was talking to mishies

Both are headed by a bunch of old guys, that is the only way I think they are alike

I went to a Catholic wedding yesterday.

I was struck by how many things are similar.

Why are they so down on the gays when these guys are in full on drag at church?

When I was younger and Mormon PR wasn't yet in the "mainstreaming" mode, we used to trash the Catholics on a regular basis. Bruce R. McConkie's entry in his famous book "Mormon Doctrine" where he specifically calls the Catholic Church "the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil," only stated what every good Mormon at the time knew.

One thing that PROVED that the Catholic church was false was that the CHANGED THE ORDINANCE OF BAPTISM from immersion to sprinkling.

Now that Mormonism has CHANGED THE ORDINANCE OF THE ENDOWMENT they have no room to point their fingers at the Catholics. "But" say the Mormons, "we only changed the FORM of the PERFORMANCE of the ordinance--we didn't change the ordinance, just it's form and that's allowed. Good! Then allow the Catholics the same latitude.

They hired someone from Faux news to help with their image. Yeah, that's gonna help! Talk about out of touch.

And we made fun of the Mormons for hiring that Jewish PR firm.

VATICAN CITY -- The Vatican has brought in the Fox News correspondent in Rome to help improve its communications strategy as it tries to cope with years of communications blunders and one of its most serious scandals in decades, officials said Saturday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/23/vatican-gets-fox-media-ad_n_1621259.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

The Catholic church claims the pope is infallible, but Catholics don't believe he is. The LDS church claims the prophet is not infallible, but Mormons believe he is.

Personally, I don't care for posters who regularly correct others posts. I'm going to go against my better judgement here and "correct" you.

TBM mormons "KNOW" he is.

And that is a big difference. There are many good Catholics out there who not agree with many in their church leadership, especially over the last decade.

Mormons on the other hand think it is a terrible idea to disagree with the Gang of 15 on anything.

I'm not religious, but mormonism is even scarier than other religions for how cultish in "following the prophet" it is. You literally have to believe everything 15 old men tell you no matter what.

There was a time when Catholics were burned at the stake for not agreeing exactly what the Pope said to believe.

For example consider William Tynsdale, the good believing Christian who translated the Bible into English was strangled and burned at the stake largely because he didn't believe the Eucharist was literally true. He wasn't the only one. And this was in 1536, after the Church had time to mellow out a thousand years.

Mormons pale in comparison in the treatment of those they decide are guilty of heresy if you look at their actions in their heyday compared to Catholics in their heyday. The closest I can compare is to the Danites going around doing Mormon justice (amateurs!). Catholics weren't subtle about it and used power to enforce their will.

BTW, Tynsdale's translation contributed to the King James Bible we know today. Obviously the Catholics were busy trying to snuff out Protestants at the time but you'd better believe the consequences could be severe for not believing exactly what the Church dictated.

There's a lot more to it of course, but just because Catholics nowadays don't all actually believe their doctrine doesn't mean Mormons believe all their doctrine either. Because of the sheer number of Catholics in the world compared to Mormons, I'm pretty sure there are more Catholics who truly believe Catholic dogma than there ever were Mormons who follow their prophet. I'll bet in 1000 years a lot of Mormons would be just like a lot of Catholics and they don't even have to fear for their lives.

Yes the Catholic church has a very dark history.

However they were started far earlier than mormons. mormonism started in 1830 compared to catholicism being dominant all throughout the middle ages.

the morg never had the power that the pope had.
comparing - as a percentage of the congregation/population - I think the morg would have just as much murder and mayhem as the Catholics

I'm disgusted with the leadership of both religions, but there is one "ship" where the Catholics have it all over the Mormons.

SHOWMANSHIP!

The RC church has cathedrals that are marvels of beauty and architecture. Commissioned the finest artists of the renaissance to create masterpieces. Ritual, music, wardrobe, jewelry--smells and bells!

Granted the Mormons haven't had as long, but what do they have to show? Bland looking temples, carpet-walled ward houses, and dingy white polyesther shirts. Even the BOM musical had to put the mishies in sequinned vests for their big dance number. Even though I have rejected all their doctrines and dogmas, I have admit, the papists know how to put on a show.

I can be friends with Catholics and visit their church without them trying to convert me.

...and should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Even the current pope, Benedict, has stated, "The Pope is not an oracle; he is infallible in very rare situations, as we know."

Those "very rare" situations are known as "ex cathedra." A Catholic could live an entire lifetime without hearing a pope speak "ex cathedra." To the best of my knowledge, the last time this happened was in 1950, when Pope Pius XII declared the Assumption of Mary. Prior to that, you have to go back to 1870.

Unlike Mormonism, Catholocism is very clear about when its designated leader is "speaking for God" (in Catholic parlance, the church) and when he is speaking as a man, which is the vast majority of the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

I am not apologizing for the Catholic church (I left it for very good reasons,) but I just wanted to put the quoted post in context.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2012 08:27PM by summer.

Agreed. The pope has claimed infallibility exactly twice. Compare that with the Mormons. For Dagny, How long are you going to blame Catholics for things that happened 500 years ago? Do you also present day Americans for slavery and the Trail of Tears?

...as long as women are not equal, condoms are discouraged, gays are criticized, and child molesters are protected while meddling into politics while receiving tax breaks.

How long are you going to make apologetic excuses for them to continue harmful teachings?

Being Catholic is not the same as being an American no matter how many times you want to try and pretend living in a country is the same as being religious.

For example if the Mormons did things I didn't agree with, I would not enable them or associate myself with them. However I don't have the same option to not be an American. Being part of a religion and enabling it is a choice nowadays. Having to live in a country (any country) is not. Why blame JS for all the stupid Mormon actions of the past? They are such nice people now, right?

Sometimes the apple is so rotten it isn’t worth pulling out a few worms and eating it anyway.

That isn't what you were criticizing and you are not answering my questions. You were talking about the burning of Tyndale. Galileo is another big issue for you. Both of those cases happened 500 years ago more or less. If you want to blame those responsible for today's problems, as opposed to all Catholics, that is a different issue. You were talking about things that happened in the Renaissance and I asked how long you were going to blame todays' church for those things. I haven't gotten an answer or at least one that is satisfactory. Apparently you will blame them as long as you disagree with them on anything else.I disagree totally on your comments on being an American. It too is a choice. Another point, which you do not seem to get, is that I do not apologize for misdeeds of the Catholics. I try to put them in pwrspective and not exaggerate them. There is a difference.

Can you recommend a country to move to that does not have any history at all? I’ll let the reader decide if they think being born somewhere is the same as staying in a religion.

The Catholic Church has a pattern of being behind the curve on all the important issues. It happened 500 years ago and it is still happening now. I didn't think it would be that hard to connect the dots. Do you not get that the same mentality is alive and well? Look no further than the Catholic Church’s crackdown on poverty-fighting nuns (heretics!) for example.

To quote one of our favorite posters (you): take a history class, got it, good night!

Someday you may reach a point where you understand that today's organizations, includinng churches, cannot be fairly blamed for things that happened in the past and which are not happening now and which they have disavowed. They can be blamed for things going on today however altthough the blame should be confined to those doing, supporting and covering up the wrong doing, not the entire membership. As far as no country being perfect, I agree, Nothing, including religions are perfect because they are made up of people and people are not perfect.

I'm happy a catholic is marrying my daughter. I'd be oh so upset if he was a mormon.

There are always similarities between hierarchical, patriarchal institutions. No doubt, Catholicism has a bloody history. But in the context of those times, it was no bloodier than the norm, even in non western, non Christian countries. Not an excuse, just an ugly reality. And Catholics don't deny their history.

There is more diversity within Catholicism than Mormonism -- diversity of thought, culture, ethnicity, etc. And evangelical Catholics are not going to hound you. American Catholics do struggle with and are often demoralized by their church. European Catholics largely ignore it. Latin Catholics often become Pentecostals.

You can visit a Catholic Church anytime you like. You can attend Catholic events with no special prerequisites. You are not supposed to take communion if you are not Catholic, but if no one knows, no one is going to tell -- and lightning won't strike if you do. (Ask me how I know ;-)

Good point about the men in dresses stuff. One of the ironies of homophobia. Also good point about the theater of the church. I would argue that the Episcopalians put on an even better show than the Catholics, but they are siblings under the skin -- or should I say under the cassock.

Catholics are taught the Pope is infallible, but nobody believes it. Mormon are taught that their prophet is fallible, but nobody believes it.

I remember being taught that our church leaders, while appearing to be similar to those in the Catholic church, live longer because we live the Word of Wisdom. This is supposedly the reason why Gordon Hinckley lived to be 90ish and the pope died in his 70s

Right around the time the book Angels & Demons was published, I started reading it and I realized how little I knew about the Catholic church. So I figured one of the easiest ways to find out about some of their beliefs was to listen to one of their radio stations. One of the sermons I happened to hear sounded so familiar. I could have printed out the text, changed a few words (like "pope" and "Catholic") and given it to a TBM and they would have thought it was a conference talk. It was about being part of the true church and how all the other ones are wrong, etc. I can't remember it all because it was years ago. I was astounded.

Do you think the Mormon Church would punish people more severely today if there were no laws preventing it? Just asking.

I know that Brigham Young probably did have people punished when Deseret made it's own law. Evidence shows that he might have even had people killed for apostasy. Reading his talks leads me to believe he was the sort of person capable of that. Either that, or his speeches included some sort of a polemic exaggeration common for the times.

It is interesting how many Exmos have shared on this board about being hassled about personal things like masturbation. This was also true in the Catholic Church as well. At least the offender could confess his sin in the privacy of a confessional booth, rather than directly in front of a bishop. Both Mormon and Catholic churches are fixated on private sexual issues, especially of Gay people.

Other similarities in this area, is Catholic demand that women accept the role of motherhood with NO allowance of birth control. This has led to much suffering and poverty among the Hispanic people here in California as the same problems of too many children is the same as for TBMs in Utah.

Big families used to be traditional in Catholocism, but far less so now. Most Catholic women ignore the church ban on artificial birth control. The families of the Hispanic children that I've taught on the East coast don't seem unusually large to me (2-4 on average.)

I was raised Catholic and never once heard the word, "masturbation," much less being told to confess it. And my experience is that priests don't bring up issues in the confessional unless the person making the confession does so first.

Premarital sex among American Catholics is probably more common than not. I doubt most young Catholics confess that.

The elephant in the room is the infallibility of the pope.

Catholics dealt with it by saying the pope was infallible ONLY when he wasn't speaking as a man.

If they don't like what he said or what he did before, during or after it, he was peaking as a man.

The Mormons only started using the Catholic "as a man" excuse within the last couple of years, no doubt when the Holy Spirit whispered to the GA who was having lunch with the same PR guy who helps the Catholics out.

The Holy Spirit said, "The Big Three went with the "speaking as a man" and we think you should use the one too--it worked."

LDS, Inc. has copied other successful Catholic and Scientology PR stunts. Of course, it is up for grabs about the quality of their judgment on what "works," i.e., the "I Am A Mormon" campaign.

Not to mix metaphors, but that idea had to have been someone's sacred cow. Did I TELL you how much ridicule the huge "I Am A Mormon" ad got here in Oakland? It doesn't take a degree in advertising to understand that having a white lady gymnast bragging that she's a Mormon and hanging the sign visible from the (marijuana) patient ID center is a...bad...idea.

Maybe, like Mitt Romney, they are just more comfortable with white folks.

Anagrammy

The pope makes it clear when he is speaking infallibly and that has happened twice in the history of the church.There are liberal Catholics who scoff at the idea of infallibility anyway .When the prophet is speaking as a prophet and when he is speaking as a man is a big muddle and many members think everything the guy says about anything is gospel. That attitude is much less common with Catholics

The RC hierarchy is the great and abominable church of the former days, while the LDS hierarchy is the great and abominable church of the latter days. Both hierarchies are the whore of all the earth. Expect them to reunite in the future and then they will both tumble to the dust of the earth and great shall be the fall of both.

Both have the same fatal flaw: That you need to have someone stand between you and God, someone to tell you what to do.
That is the only reason churches have any power. People give away their spiritual power and then the prophets and popes can tell you anything they want.
The truth isn't about how much you are willing to sacrifice to God, it's about how much you are willing to accept from him.

MORmONISM was founded on trashing other faiths and catholic bashing. Now MORmONISM is the Utah version of the Catholic Church.

Catholicism/Xtianity was founded as a way to mock/exploit Jewish teachings. MORmONISM was founded as a way to Mock /exploit xtian teachings.