I haven’t posted as much lately because of other obligations but I have been interested by the porn threads that I have read in the last few weeks. I wanted to chime in and state that I am not sure that anyone can be addicted to porn. I think that porn misuse and overuse is a problem that needs to be treated, but it is counterproductive to treat the porn and not the underlying issues of why it is being used in a destructive way. Personality disorders and mental illness seem to be the root of many destructive behaviors. No one who habitually oversleeps would be diagnosed with a sleep addiction; they might however be depressed or have any number of other issues. The oversleeping is the symptom not the problem.
Destructive porn use is a symptom of greater problem, not an addiction.

jacob:

I agree -- not everyone can be addicted to porn. Some people can stop at two drinks, a dollar in the slot machine, a couple of credit card purchases at the mall, or a little internet porn.

Some people can't stop -- like my ex. As I mentioned in my other posts, he had a serious family history of psychiatric disorders and was later diagnosed with several disorders himself. He had other behavioral addictions besides the porn, some of which have compromised his physical health.

You correctly point out that personality disorders and psychiatric conditions are often involved when people have behavioral addictions. Yes, an individual with an addictive personality can become addicted to substances other than alcohol or drugs: shopping, gambling, eating, sex, and porn, to name a few.

For those who are interested, here's a link to an article from Psychology Today explaining the difference between porn addiction and sex addiction:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201111/porn-addiction-is-not-sex-addiction-and-why-it-matters

Bottom line: Some people have behavioral addictions, and porn can be one of them.

Tara the Pagan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jacob:
>
> You correctly point out that personality disorders
> and psychiatric conditions are often involved when
> people have behavioral addictions.

I would say personality disorders and psychiatric conditions are the root cause of destructive behavior.

>
> Bottom line: Some people have behavioral
> addictions, and porn can be one of them.

I would say that some people engage in destructive behavior and porn can be one of those behaviors.

Thus, as in other addiction, it is modified gradually and is below the threshhold of "Hey, I'm in control" awareness. The dopamine overstimulation (in an hour, more online stimulating images than in person's whole lifetime in previous eras) creates the need for continual reinforcement, more extreme forms, and actual withdrawal symptoms if withheld. This is chemical, not "moral," science, not religion...at least according to the website http://www.yourbrainonporn.com

I don't doubt that there are chemical responses to porn consumption. My point is that when the consumption becomes destructive it is not because they have consumed to much porn, but instead because of deeper underlying reasons why the porn consumption has become destructive.

The excessive exerciser may have built a neurological reason to continue exercising but that isn't why they started to exercise excessively.

What's "too much?" Since men cruising the internet for porn don't have electrodes attached to their brains and aren't undergoing testing to discover when their brain chemical balance reaches that critical tipping point, it's hard to reach a definitive consensus on just what "too much" might be.

We know the brain can and does create new neural pathways in response to repeated pleasurable (or painful) activity. We also know that porn-viewing stimulates the release of dopamine, serotonin, and endorphins. Orgasms cause the release of oxytocin, a "bonding" chemical.

Once an individual becomes "wired" (through repeated activity/orgasms) to experience the rush of feel-good brain chemicals from the stimulus of porn instead of live partners, that person could become chemically addicted to the stimulus.

Everyone experiences the creation of new neural pathways in this manner, not just individuals suffering from psychiatric disorders.

By your logic we would all kill ourselves by eating. Since we eat multiple times every day at some point the brain would cause us to be addicted to eating and that addiction would cause our death. I am being facetious obviously, but I use the analogy because there are definite eating disorders and none of them started because of to many meals.

Porn consumption in and of itself does not cause destructive porn use.

"Super-Size Me"!

One of the findings in the movie is that fast food has chemically addictive components, plus Morgan Spurlock noted in his 30-experiment that he came to feel the addiction/withdrawal pattern: "I craved this food more and more as I ate it and got massive headaches when I didn't" (script).

Craving food that is bad for us is a world wide phenomena, does that mean that we are all addicted? There are many reasons why people crave fast food after eating it. One of them is that the calories are empty and it travels the digestive system quickly, leaving the consumer hungry again far to soon. Super Size Me, was a disturbing documentary, but his personal observations were anecdotal. One must ask if it was the steady diet of Coke or fries that caused his headaches.

I don't think anyone in this discussion claimed that everybody will become an addict just because the brain creates new neural pathways in response to repeated pleasurable activities.

Obviously, we're not all addicted to everything that feels good.

However, given the way the brain functions, some people can and do become addicts. Yes, they may well be the ones who already have disorders -- but not always.

The number of individuals who seek therapy and attend self-help groups for various types of behavioral addictions is at least evidence that it's possible to experience addiction without co-morbid psychiatric problems, although perhaps less likely.

IMHO, it's NOT a spiritual/moral issue, as many religiously-minded folks try to make it.

I don't really have much of an interest in this thread but to compare porn to a physiological chemical dependance I think is a misuse of the word addiction. A compulsion perhaps, but addiction? Have you ever seen the horrors of someone with an opiate/opiod addiction? Watch a chemical dependance kill someone and then see if porn "addiction" doesn't sound kind like of an insulting abuse of the word.

Of course you are saying that neural pathways that are built up because of repeated exposure are the mechanism. Explain to me why some are able to overcome this need to indulge and others aren't. Could it be that there has already been a break down in their ability to exercise self control.

rfm is my internet porn, i'm addicted to it

It releases the "feel-good" chemicals in the brain also, when you get a positive response. At least for me.

Exercise addicts or we could use the word extremists.
work
play ... golf comes to mind
religion
hedonism
relationships/ oh sweet love
chocolate

and the beat goes on, and the beat goes on

This is interesting as it brings up the age old philosophical question "what are morales?"

Who decides them, and what are they? Is psychology another religion trying to tell us how to co-exist with each other?

I don't see it that way. Porn is porn. Food is food. Booze is booze. Ppl seem to find ways to exhert CONTROL through any means like vomating food after purging or taking out frustration through violent acts. Are they really crazy or just feeling like they have lost all control over life in general?

CONTROL or the lack there of seems to be the underlying assumption behind all the disfunctions. Look at prisoners. Are they homos? Maybe they gang rape as a form of showing the ALPHA male dominance over their counter parts?

Maybe giving ppl freedom, control, and a sense of ownership may help them to start feeling better about themselves enough to curb excessive behaviors.

As to your claim that people over use porn, I find this hard to believe, as I have never found anyone who views it more then fifteen minutes at a time.

That's a surprise, forbiddencokedrinker. I've heard lots of co-worker and fellow student conversations where guys said that they spent anywhere from half an hour to several hours viewing porn, although not on a daily basis.

I've also conversed with wives and adult children of porn viewers, many of whom claimed their loved ones viewed it in larger segments of time -- but those reports are subjective, and the reporters might be biased because of their emotional involvement.

Then again, maybe the duration reflects the fact that many of those conversations took place in Happy Valley, a locale known for its sexually repressive culture, or the demographic -- maybe younger, single men have more time available for such activities.

For what it's worth, none of the individuals who viewed seemed to talk obsessively about it or self-reported that they were "addicted."

You know what you normally call someone who says they can go for hours? A liar. I am sure there are some people who can go again and again, who who take half a day to climax, but I am willing to bet they are in the solid minority.

I, on the other hand, am legendary among a certain crowd for my Olympian endurance.

Just sayin'. LOL!

I used to live by a guy who worked for the FBI. We got to talking about what drives people to crime and the topic of does porn drive men to rape women. He said the FBI actually did a lot of research on porn being responsible for sex crimes and their research showed most men get bored with porn after awhile and only the ones with emotional or mental problems get obsessed with it.

For me I got bored with porn. I remember what a score it was to find some dirty magazines when I was a kid. Then when I was old enough I bought some porn. I really never was into it that big. Then the internet came and I went through the typical porn surfing phase and I liken it to eating too many chicken wings or smoking too many cigars. It was just too much. Henry Rollins made a funny cartoon on the subject.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but when unshaven women are now found under "fetish" I think the world is off its rocker. Porn was cool when I was younger, but I wish I'd downloaded some of it because he stuff on the internet these days is really disappointing.

About porn and sex crimes, I don't think porn use causes sex crimes. I think that people who are more likely to commit sex crimes are also more likely to be heavy porn users.

However, I do think that porn addiction is just a symptom of a deeper problem, just like alcoholism, compulsive gambling, or any other addiction.

But that's just my opinion.

T-Bone

Anyone else?

T-bone, If you haven't found your preferred form of smut on the internet, you must not know about something called a "search engine".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2012 06:48PM by jaredsotherbrother.

I still hide it from my wife, but only use it when I am out of town as I prefer the real thing with her. I have found that now that I have overcome the feeling that it is ok to have a drink or two with dinner, I no longer feel the need to go to xxxbunker or other free porn sites to fill my need when on the road. What I think is a sign of addiction is when people are paying for it, while trying to hide it from others. To spend money on something that is so easily available for free shows the more destructive patterns of abuse or dependency on porn. But I have found that not being experienced with sex at all before marriage, that a little porn has opened my eyes to all that sex can be with your spouse. I have learned a lot from watching it, and where I don't need it all the time anymore shows me that these addictions are tied to our own restrictions we place on ourselves. I used to use it at home when I was depressed, while now I only use it when I am away from my wife for a few days and get the urge. Keeps me from even considering cheating as just this last week I had a lady at a conference I was at offer herself to me after we both had a few drinks, it was a turn on, but easy for me to decline then head back to my room to "take care of it myself" and stay true to my wife. A year ago when I was still in the church I may have taken her up on the offer just because of how depressed and the lack of self esteem I had along with the guilt involved with using porn as a release.

Just an FYI sex crimes and I assume we're talking about rape is about violence and control. It has nothing to do with whether you were turned on by some guy or girl so much that you couldn't control yourself.

People who rape have a lot more going on that being uncontrollably attracted to someone else. And it's not caused by porn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2012 11:05AM by breatheagain.

Speaking as a physician who practices addiction medicine I offer the following:

1. I agree that the word "addiction" often gets overused to the point where it gets trivialized.

2. Addiction can be defined in terms of observable characteristics or the disease model. I distill an addiction diagnosis to "continuing to use or drink (I'm restricting myself to chemical addictions here) despite negative consequences." This is a bit of a simplification but it's a good place to start a discussion. The disease model is very useful as it addresses the interaction between the drug and the user. Just as everyone who is exposed to an infectious organism does not become sick, everyone who tries or uses a drug does not become an addict. Even a single bad consequence does not an addict make (such as a DUI). The neurochemistry underlying the medical model with dopamine nerve terminals in the nucleus accumbens in the final common pathway has already been mentioned above.

3. Chemical addictions are a lot easier to talk about than the so-called process addictions (gambling, eating (both over and under), sex, internet, pornography). In fact there is not a uniform opinion that all meet criteria for addiction. For example, I have it on good authority that internet addiction will not make it into the DSM V. Instead, it will be a foot note. There is certainly overlap with these behaviors and chemical addictions, and like chemicals, the vast majority of people who participate in any of these behaviors do so without any problems whatsoever (which is the key to whole matter).

4. Although 12 step based treatments are used for process addictions it is obvious that abstinence is problematic in a number of these--gambling (no problem), eating (big problem), sex (possible, but not desirable), internet (for most, not a practical solution), pornography (no problem).

5. Adding another psychiatric or medical disorder makes the situation more difficult. With respect to psychiatric disorders the big question becomes are there two disorders or just one? It is not uncommon for a patient to develop an affective disorder (usually anxiety or depression) as a result of substance use. Stimulant use can also lead to psychotic episodes but they are typically short lived. On the other hand there are a number of people who use drugs to "self medicate." This is another overused term but adequately describes the patient with ADHD who uses marijuana or those who use tranquilizers to "numb" themselves when depressed. Although this type of behavior can lead to addiction, it is not addiction per se. Finally there are those who have two disorders, an addictive disorder and a co-occuring disorder. To be successful both of these disorders must be identified and treated.

Submitted with the risk that this is more than anybody wanted.

I loved it, and don't have diagnosis services available to me.

#4 I really identify with, although I have chosen abstinance for the sex one. I found it easier for me. I use the 12 steps, buddhist slant

#5 btw I found prescription marijuana to be... not useful for me. Just 9 days off, but no pain killer(big deep hole) usage either. Pretty much any tranquilizer is highly problematic too. Not on any atm. I have a huge list of things, I avoid. ahh well

I am very comfortable with your post, ty, from one within it all :) .. I am on a "mood stabilizer" that I stay on, I don't feel it, but am cautioned to stay on it. I don't want to revisit my depressions

Porn for me was like being hungry and looking at a menu instead of enjoying real food. I think porn served it's purpose when I was younger and it was educatonal. I think I was more mature later on because I did watch a fair amount of porn as a teen.