Hello everyone,

This is my first time posting on this site, and I'm very nervous. My mate is a Mormon, and if any of her family or friends figure out that I'm posting here, she would kill me (figuratively).

Anyway, one time, we got in a "philosophical argument" and then she let out a bombshell: She wasn't paying her tithing or going to Sacrament meetings (or doing anything with the church) because of me, a nevermo.

I was devastated. We moved a few months ago so she's still trying to get adjusted, but she hasn't met anyone from her new ward or even stepped into the building since we moved. On top of that, she knows I work on Sundays, oftentimes while Sacrament would be going on.

I told her before that I felt uncomfortable going to the church. I'm now an atheist and don't feel religion will enrich my life in any way, but I told her that I'd go with her the first time to church to "break the ice," but after that, never again. Still, what would justify her to blame me for her "falling astray?"

I'd have to hear more clarification, but she probably just means that if she was married to an active-member that it would be a lot easier to go to church/pay tithing etc.

The fact that you are not a member of the church makes it so she is not accountable to her spouse for her church-related actions, and she is not guilted into doing what she thinks she should.

So, while you're not at fault, in her mind she "blames" you for not being mormon and helping her get to church.

(sigh)

I've been tossing and turning sometimes over if she would be happier if she married a Mormon, but she always reassured me that it wasn't that.

I forget how it boiled up to this point, but I do remember well before it came to this point that we were discussing Kahlil Gibran's poem "Pain." THat's when she tried to put the Mormon spin on it by saying it relates to the Mormon view of "choosing our struggles in the preexistence."

That's when I slammed the brakes in my head. People CHOOSE to be born with birth defects?! People CHOOSE to be afflicted with life-altering or fatal diseases?! People CHOOSE to have their innocent lives cut off at a young age by gun violence?!

I was clearly disturbed by this view, but she wasn't, and I told her that that was "really f***ed up."

Damn it...I love her so much and I don't want a divorce, but now I just want to get as far away from Mormonism as possible. I want to believe that our relationship can work, but now...I feel maybe she was better off marrying a Mormon...

I really don't know what to say anymore.

NO, You do not divorce your wife! You show her through Church articles and references were the church is lying to her. Try Joseph's Smith wives and tell her "look Mrs. Gelaendewagen, did you know Joseph Smith was married to women who were currently married to other men?" Then you say hmm I wonder why. Leave it at that. Then order the book called "In Sacred Lonliness" by Todd Compton and read it in from of her. If she asks why you are reading about Joseph Smith tell her of your new found curiosity of him and why he would start a church. Then read her a few lines from the book. Keep learning about the real church history. It is quite awful.

What she's saying is that she lacks initiative (and may be somewhat shy around strangers and afraid of new experiences as well.) Lots of people lack initiative. If you were the priesthood holder you'd tell her that you were both going to church today, and you'd get in the car and drive the both of you there. She's feeling the lack of that.

I wouldn't take it personally. I think that she may be deeply conflicted about the church. I would leave your offer to go with her the first time open, and not worry about the situation otherwise unless she escalates it.

If she does escalate it, then simply drive her there or contact your local bishop and tell her that your wife feels very shy about coming to the local ward for the first time. He could probably arrange for someone to pick her up or to sit with her there.

Moving to a new place can be very difficult for some people. I think that your wife may be stressing about the move. Some towns have newcomers' clubs -- it might be worth it to investigate that. Or she might check out the local garden club, historical society, or other clubs that could help her to feel more oriented.

She's tired of sitting through meetings where she is told that temple marriage to a righteous priesthood-holding man is the only right way. They've made her feel inferior and fearful. But it's easier to blame you than to face the truth: that church makes her feel depressed and anxious.

My advice, assuming you want to keep the marriage together, is to set aside religious issues and court your wife. Do what ever you can to make her feel special and loved. Send her flowers, encourage her to pursue non-church activities/clubs, tell her how smart she is, etc. You get the idea. So, if and when she does sit in sacrament meeting she'll look around at the women who are tired, depressed and trying to wrangle a bunch of bored kids into submission while their priesthood-holding spouses ignore them - she just might think about how lucky she is.

If she insists on your attending with her, say that you are willing to investigate the issues if she is willing to give equal time to non-church sources of information. Narrow down the issues to the 2 or 3 claims that MUST be true for TSCC to be what it says it is. First vision, Book of Mormon historicity, Book of Abraham, Smith's prophecies, the witnesses? Then go to mormonthink.com and study it out.

Good luck.

+1 summer & caedmon

Putting aside any pre-existence crap, she DID choose to marry you, even though she knew what that would mean. She DID choose to be lax about her involvement in the church. Her inability or unwillingness to live in accordance to what she claims to believe is HER problem. But she doesn't want to blame herself.

There are a lot of nonbelievers married to spouses who are extremely devoted to the church, very active. You're quite lucky she's not a super Mormon. Then things would be super messed up instead of only mildly so.

The correct response when she told you all of that stuff, would have been "you're welcome."

What a load of crap. She just doesn't want to go and is trying to assuage her guilt by blaming it on you. I married a non-mormon still went to church raised my kids in the church went by myself every Sunday had all kinds of leadership positions etc. My husband almost never went and certainly never to help 'break the ice'. So whatever, don't feel guilty about it.

Allow her time to come to the realization that it's her choice and she just doesn't really want to go to church. Then find something fun to do together on Sundays.

by the way, almost immediately after my husband finally joined the church I quit. The straw that broke the camels back of reason was the issue regarding homosexuality, back then it meant excommunication to admit it. When someone you love comes out the last thing they need is someone who would agree with crap like that. I couldn't agree with it, can't agree with him never getting married, can't agree with him not having the right to a family.

Now that I look back I wish so badly that I had just quit, gone to the Presbyterian church if I needed religion so badly.

I guess she means that if she had married a Mormon, then that Mormon husband would be someone to go to the church with and who would encourage her to go.

Of course that's not your fault, but Mormons are very good at placing blame on other people.

Falling away can be very painful for Mormons. I'd wait a bit and then try to get her to talk about it some more. This one response isn't much to go on.

I distinctly remember telling my husband that my woes were all his fault about 45 years ago. I was deeply depressed and in a terrible rut. It had nothing to do with him, but only with my own loneliness in a new city and my inability to reach out to make friends. Can you take her someplace where you could meet people? Take a class or something?

Luckily, our marriage has been about supporting each other through the tough patches. You can use this opportunity to show her how to do that.

This and the garment thread have me thinking that instead of strengthening relationships, all Church Inc is good at is creating ever new reasons for marriages to fail. The gays should be glad Mormonism doesn't want anything to do with their relationships. Theirs will be much happier as a result.

It's hard to be a Mormon--not because it's embarrassing and obviously full of crap and a huge money and time sink, but because Mormon Satan's workin' overtime to stop people from believing and participating. In addition to telling people to make stuff up on the internet and tempting the members with things like coffee and attractive, comfortable clothing, he sends non-believing spouses to drag them down.

This teaching about Satan is the slickest thing about Mormonism, imo, because it turns an obvious con and all the abuse that goes with it into something desirable. The harder it is, the less sense it makes, the more people argue against it, the more compelling their arguments, the more it seems like it couldn't possibly be true and the more wrong it feels, the truer and more right it must be. It's just that darned Satan, trying to stop you from passing the Big Impossible Test(TM). No eternity of milling around in white robes for you!

Never mind that you also have your so-called free agency.

It doesn't take much exposure to install this idea about Satan and the Big Impossible Test. It pervades all of the teachings. It found a lasting home in my head, and I was only forced to participate for about 5 years as a teenager in the late 1970s. My mother was unhappy after moving from Salt Lake to Denver, and my dad had an active Mormon work friend, and I think they thought it would fix their marriage. So they jumped off the deep end--dragged me and my brother to church, paid their tithing, got married in the temple, and we masqueraded as full on churchgoing Mormons for the next few years.

I don't think either of my parents ever really believed, but just hoped the churchgoing and tithe-paying would solve their problems. It didn't, of course, and they reverted to inactivity after moving back to Salt Lake in 1980. My mom always said she'd go back to church if my dad would go with. She ended up going by herself some time after he died in 2003.

If a married woman goes to church by herself, everybody knows her husband is a slacker and feels sorry for her.

Back to you, Gelaendewagen--you and Mormon Satan are convenient scapegoats. If I were you, I'd suggest that the wife take more responsibility for her own failure to be a proper churchgoing Mormon.

Here is my two-cents, although other posters have covered things very well. Sometimes my house is really disorganized and a lot of it is because my husband has ADD. But if I were honest with myself, I'd have to admit that although I love having things organized, I'm bad at getting and keeping things organized. When I'm really frustrated about the situation, it's much easier to blame his ADD than my lack of natural talent.

What I mean is, maybe it's easier to blame you for her religious state than to be brave and change it. But it isn't really your fault. It would be easier for her if you were both on the same page but you aren't stopping her from pursuing what she believes in. In fact, you are being very supportive. You can't be her puppetmaster though and at some point, she's going to have to decide what's important to her and make it happen. You can't do it for her.

Oh, and I've been posting on this board for three years and DH has never found out so you shouldn't worry. Unless she snoops your computer usage history or something, you are good.

She knew she was taking a chance when she married a non Mormon.

As long as she does not try to convert you, just shrug off her comments.

If she starts pressuring you however, then you can proceed to Plan B and give her the boot.
Life is too short to be miserable.

This seems like an approach-avoidance issue.

Mormons are CONDITIONED to regard sterling activity in the Mormon Church as good, right, moral, necessary. But the Church can be a soul-killing nightmare. So she avoids it but then the conditioning kicks in and she feels she's doing something really bad by not being active in the cult. This quandary bothers her. But YOU are a scapegoat for her feelings of guilt. If YOU are the reason she's not "doing as she should" then it takes a lot of the pain of guilt away.

Honey... Doesn't the church preach free agency? Isn't your behavior and belief part of that agency? If not, then you don't believe the church anyway. If you do, then you have used your agency to make the choices you have made. I may, or may not agree with your choices, but they have been yours to make.



HH