Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
I am outside the morridor, but it seems that outside of the missionary presence, LDS Inc truly seems to avoid public discourse.
In cases such as public religious forums-not online rather actual ones- such as interfaith gatherings of christians, LDS Inc is usually noticeably absent.
Is this because of the rift with the christians? Is it because they have been shamed so much over their history?
One would suspect, particularly with their converting tactics going so far as to hijack funerals, that they would want to be front and center in any religious discussion.
They have no problem inserting themselves into people houses early in the AM to push their wares, why are they absent around people who know their true history and tactics?
In cases such as public religious forums-not online rather actual ones- such as interfaith gatherings of christians, LDS Inc is usually noticeably absent.
Is this because of the rift with the christians? Is it because they have been shamed so much over their history?
One would suspect, particularly with their converting tactics going so far as to hijack funerals, that they would want to be front and center in any religious discussion.
They have no problem inserting themselves into people houses early in the AM to push their wares, why are they absent around people who know their true history and tactics?
I was always taught that they do not approve individuals involving themselves in debate and discourse. I think it has something to do with PR control... Similar to most corporate policies where you can get fired for talking about Corp. business. They have a special guy for that.. The PR contact man. (Missionaries, in the ChurchCo case.)
As for multi-faith conferences, I think they often aren't invited. It is because of the "who's a Christian" thing, but I think also it's to do with the fact thet Mormons want to control the discourse too much.
As for multi-faith conferences, I think they often aren't invited. It is because of the "who's a Christian" thing, but I think also it's to do with the fact thet Mormons want to control the discourse too much.
"I was always taught that they do not approve individuals involving themselves in debate and discourse"
This is risky for Mormons, because invariably they will lose the debate, and always admit defeat by bearing their testimony.
Also, by entering into debates, they might learn some facts which are not faith-promoting. Mormons try to avoid facts as much as possible.
As for not getting involved with interfaith gatherings, don't Mormons like to set themselves apart from other churches? They don't want to associate with lesser churches, just the way officers don't eat at the same table as the enlisted ranks.
This is risky for Mormons, because invariably they will lose the debate, and always admit defeat by bearing their testimony.
Also, by entering into debates, they might learn some facts which are not faith-promoting. Mormons try to avoid facts as much as possible.
As for not getting involved with interfaith gatherings, don't Mormons like to set themselves apart from other churches? They don't want to associate with lesser churches, just the way officers don't eat at the same table as the enlisted ranks.
Well, that's not exactly true.
I was involved for some time in interfaith charity non-profit movements and Mormons were consistently invited and always refused.
Mostly they refused to return phone calls and when I appeared in person, they said they were too busy "taking care of their own" to participate in interfaith outreach to the elderly.
They also wouldn't participate in food drives where churches pitched in together to alleviate suffering in homes with children and seniors.
They said they weren't interested, but I think they were just not permitted to make resource decisions at the local levels. They are not the head of the beast, they are just collectors of resources and the providers of a "service" which enables them to keep people paying.
They were invisible in our community in Belfair, Washington.
I welcome other POV...
Anagrammy
I was involved for some time in interfaith charity non-profit movements and Mormons were consistently invited and always refused.
Mostly they refused to return phone calls and when I appeared in person, they said they were too busy "taking care of their own" to participate in interfaith outreach to the elderly.
They also wouldn't participate in food drives where churches pitched in together to alleviate suffering in homes with children and seniors.
They said they weren't interested, but I think they were just not permitted to make resource decisions at the local levels. They are not the head of the beast, they are just collectors of resources and the providers of a "service" which enables them to keep people paying.
They were invisible in our community in Belfair, Washington.
I welcome other POV...
Anagrammy
My (admittedly limited) experience has been similar to yours, Anagrammy.
In my city I've been involved in some charity events that were put together by multiple religious groups. It was interesting to see who showed up to help and who didn't. Christians of various stripes, yes. The Bhuddists, yes. Muslims, yes. Hindus, yep. Sikhs, yep. Atheists, yep.
JWs & Mormons, no.
It wasn't a matter of numbers either. Once I worked a booth with a lady who showed up with all 24 members of her tiny church - the only one of that denomination in the city (I'd never heard of it). By contrast, there are at least 3 LDS - meeting houses? - in this city.
One incident stands out in my mind. There was a drive on for donations to the local Food Bank. Various churches and other religious groups agreed on a Saturday when their members would bring donations to designated collection points (generally churches, temples, mosques, etc).
There was considerable cooperation between various groups. One of my Christian friends spent the day riding around town in a big truck with two Muslim guys. They picked up food from the various collection points and took it into the food bank. He had a blast talking to them.
The kicker was - a month later, the mormons put flyers in letterboxes all around the city, saying that THEY were collecting for the food bank, and asking the fine citizens of our community to leave donations on the sidewalk, where they would be picked up by the mormons and taken to the food bank.
I must admit, I was kinda stunned.
1. They refused to participate in the earlier, more effective drive
2. They do their own separate thing barely a month later, which makes them look pathetic
3. They are asking for donations from non-mormons, but these donations will be brought to the food bank by mormons.
Condorstrikes
In my city I've been involved in some charity events that were put together by multiple religious groups. It was interesting to see who showed up to help and who didn't. Christians of various stripes, yes. The Bhuddists, yes. Muslims, yes. Hindus, yep. Sikhs, yep. Atheists, yep.
JWs & Mormons, no.
It wasn't a matter of numbers either. Once I worked a booth with a lady who showed up with all 24 members of her tiny church - the only one of that denomination in the city (I'd never heard of it). By contrast, there are at least 3 LDS - meeting houses? - in this city.
One incident stands out in my mind. There was a drive on for donations to the local Food Bank. Various churches and other religious groups agreed on a Saturday when their members would bring donations to designated collection points (generally churches, temples, mosques, etc).
There was considerable cooperation between various groups. One of my Christian friends spent the day riding around town in a big truck with two Muslim guys. They picked up food from the various collection points and took it into the food bank. He had a blast talking to them.
The kicker was - a month later, the mormons put flyers in letterboxes all around the city, saying that THEY were collecting for the food bank, and asking the fine citizens of our community to leave donations on the sidewalk, where they would be picked up by the mormons and taken to the food bank.
I must admit, I was kinda stunned.
1. They refused to participate in the earlier, more effective drive
2. They do their own separate thing barely a month later, which makes them look pathetic
3. They are asking for donations from non-mormons, but these donations will be brought to the food bank by mormons.
Condorstrikes
Probably an Eagle Scout project.
I don't have any personal experience, but I went to the Church of Religious Science here in Boise for a few months, and the pastor there mentioned that Mormons didn't attend or contribute to an organization where most of the other denominations pooled resources to help the needy.
gatherings. Theologically, the LDS church considers all other religions and creeds to be apostate - there's no reason for the only true and living church to mix and mingle, and worse, cooperate, with apostates.
This position has softened a great deal, but the average Mormon would still be very uncomfortable participating in any interfaith gathering.
This position has softened a great deal, but the average Mormon would still be very uncomfortable participating in any interfaith gathering.
It would much rather be the host than a guest.
I attend another Christian denomination that is only 3 blocks from the SLC headquarters and they have spoken about working with the LDS church several times. I don't know to what extent though.
Interestingly enough, when walking through the halls of the church, there is a tree with people that have contributed to the church I was shocked to find the LDS church being listed.
Interestingly enough, when walking through the halls of the church, there is a tree with people that have contributed to the church I was shocked to find the LDS church being listed.
Agree. Very little or next to nothing in my area....the Southeast. The RS had a collection box once in hallway for non-perishable food donations which had maybe three items inside. They have a yearly road litter clean-up but I guess the members now have other 'inspired jobs' ...... Like cleaning the buildings.
The lack of outreach ministry in the community has always bothered me. That and not listing wards in city directories along with other churches. Guess they don't want to be associated with the less worthy denominations. And yet they want to be included as Christians......
The lack of outreach ministry in the community has always bothered me. That and not listing wards in city directories along with other churches. Guess they don't want to be associated with the less worthy denominations. And yet they want to be included as Christians......
That's basic isolationist church policy.
Even the missionaries say they are not there to debate or argue. Only to teach. It's a one way street for them. When you bring up issues they first brush it aside saying something like "you can't believe everything you read, or people say." When you bring up sources and facts then they say they're not there to debate.
The church doesn't want to hear about it or face it if it's not beneficial to the church.
Even the missionaries say they are not there to debate or argue. Only to teach. It's a one way street for them. When you bring up issues they first brush it aside saying something like "you can't believe everything you read, or people say." When you bring up sources and facts then they say they're not there to debate.
The church doesn't want to hear about it or face it if it's not beneficial to the church.
The last Ward I was in, the one I left, actually worked frequently with an interfaith food co-op. The scout troop has done numerous Eagle projects there. I also know a couple lawyers in the ward who donate legal services to the co-op clients.
Not to sound like an apologist for the church, but this is one area that I think they are doing things right, at least in my area.
Not to sound like an apologist for the church, but this is one area that I think they are doing things right, at least in my area.
It will be nice when the media spotlight begins to truly question the LDS Corporation.
LDS Inc may prefer that their PR spokesmen actually word and spin TSCC charity, but in a national spotlight every member will not only have to defend the meager numbers we will see, but additionally these numbers will be exposed to the faithful membership.
The small 'pocket change' that LDS Inc uses for charity compared to their balance sheet will become public knowledge to the tithers and LDS might have some splainin to do.
LDS Inc may prefer that their PR spokesmen actually word and spin TSCC charity, but in a national spotlight every member will not only have to defend the meager numbers we will see, but additionally these numbers will be exposed to the faithful membership.
The small 'pocket change' that LDS Inc uses for charity compared to their balance sheet will become public knowledge to the tithers and LDS might have some splainin to do.
In our area there was a recent article in the religion section about the LDS stake in Missouri City and how they were working with other churches on some projects. But over on my side of town, they're always no shows.
It was particularly noticeable after Ike. The gym at the church I work for was flooded and the floor ruined, but we stacked donations floor to ceiling and had volunteers in to sort and hand out supplies daily and the trucks with MREs, ice and water used our parking lot.
The volunteers were not just our parish, they were from churches all over town and even used us as a clearing house of sorts to find out who needed help or who could help clear debris, etc. The Mormons were invisible--we offered food and to send water and ice trucks, but they said no thanks they were fine.
Odd.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2012 07:34PM by nwmcare.
It was particularly noticeable after Ike. The gym at the church I work for was flooded and the floor ruined, but we stacked donations floor to ceiling and had volunteers in to sort and hand out supplies daily and the trucks with MREs, ice and water used our parking lot.
The volunteers were not just our parish, they were from churches all over town and even used us as a clearing house of sorts to find out who needed help or who could help clear debris, etc. The Mormons were invisible--we offered food and to send water and ice trucks, but they said no thanks they were fine.
Odd.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2012 07:34PM by nwmcare.
Years ago when the AIDS crisis was much more serious than it is today, I was part of a group in Fort Worth, TX that organized an annual AIDS interfaith healing service. Ministers from various denominations were all invited to participate. After a brief sermon by the host minister, anyone present who felt like they needed a healing blessing could come to the front to have a blessing or talk with the clergy of their choice. Only once to my knowledge did the LDS church send a representative. I think he was a bishop of some ward.
Firstly, I was surprised LDS sent a reperesentatvie because I knew they liked to handle things heir own way and not be part of a team. Second, that poor bishop with his quad tucked under his arm looked so out of place with the other ministers, all educated men and women from various theology universities. Some in their robes and vestiments and he in a cheap suit probably left over from his mission days that he purchased from Mac Chirstensen. I don't recall anyone coming up to see him as I was sitting on the stand directing the choir.
In other venues, things such as Relay for Life I have never seen a group from the LDS church have repressentative teams participating. So many other denominations, school clubs and civic organizations always particiapte, but I do not recall an instance in either Texas or Louisiana where I currently live where LDS participated. I guess they feel they don't need to exposure to the community.
Firstly, I was surprised LDS sent a reperesentatvie because I knew they liked to handle things heir own way and not be part of a team. Second, that poor bishop with his quad tucked under his arm looked so out of place with the other ministers, all educated men and women from various theology universities. Some in their robes and vestiments and he in a cheap suit probably left over from his mission days that he purchased from Mac Chirstensen. I don't recall anyone coming up to see him as I was sitting on the stand directing the choir.
In other venues, things such as Relay for Life I have never seen a group from the LDS church have repressentative teams participating. So many other denominations, school clubs and civic organizations always particiapte, but I do not recall an instance in either Texas or Louisiana where I currently live where LDS participated. I guess they feel they don't need to exposure to the community.
which is entirely in a scout setting
they seem inferior and unsure of themselves and would perfer not to talk about anything unrelated to scouting.
but then, they so suck at scouting, they come across as inferior and unsure of themselves even in their topic of choice.
they seem inferior and unsure of themselves and would perfer not to talk about anything unrelated to scouting.
but then, they so suck at scouting, they come across as inferior and unsure of themselves even in their topic of choice.
Since I am outside the corridor my limited access to seeing LDS assistance in times of need-such as the Ike situation- is usually online photographs.
Of course all the pics I have seen have the LDS workers in brightly colored shirts or some type of identifiable connection to the promotion of LDS Inc. It comes off as contrived marketing at a time when people really need help.
That in itself is enough for me to consider LDS Inc to be unchristian.
Of course all the pics I have seen have the LDS workers in brightly colored shirts or some type of identifiable connection to the promotion of LDS Inc. It comes off as contrived marketing at a time when people really need help.
That in itself is enough for me to consider LDS Inc to be unchristian.