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Posted by: brefots ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 12:48PM

It all boils down to the same incredibly stupid belief that a omnibenevolent god cannot forgive mankind for the flaws he endowed us with in the first place unless a cruel and barbaric human sacrifice is performed. This they call "mercy" and since it must be an innocent man that is killed they call it "justice" thus claiming in effect that black is white.

To prevent reason to reach these obvious conclusions they claim it's a "mystery" and "God's ways are not our ways". Yes when obvious cruelty and injustice is called "mercy" and "justice" then it's pretty obvious that "god's ways are not our ways". And it is truly a mystery how one can subvert the meaning of every word into it's opposite and still believe it's the same thing.

And this insane belief in a ridiculous "atonement" is what both mormons and christians have in common. I have another name for both religions: Total lunacy!

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 12:58PM

which side is the scariest. They both want to control my behavior to better conform to their fantasy world.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 12:58PM

I tend to make the distinction more cartoonish. To me it is a population of people who both believe in Santa Claus. One group of people think that Santa Claus has red pants. The other group of people think that Santa Claus has green pants. They bitterly fight about this.

One group arrogantly declares that the other group does not truly believe in Santa Claus. The other group claims that their version of beliefs is the only true Santa Claus approved version.

The flaw with this group of people is not that they believe differently about Santa Claus' pants. That stuff doesn't matter.

The flaw is that they believe in Santa Claus and should be ridiculed accordingly.

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Posted by: Jeezus ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 11:05AM

Even though I have never seen him I know it to be true.

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Posted by: rander70 ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 01:38PM

While Christianity has it's nutty beliefs, Mormonism has even crazier beliefs that they hide under the "christian" blanket of appearing very normal to christian people. This is what the Christians would call "a wolf in sheep skin." Christianity may be scary at points,such as accepting homosexuality in the sin because "it says so in the bible...", but Mormonism completely enslaves the people to work for free and give them 10% of their hard-earned money... all in trade for wispering lies into their ears. I believe the idea of Jesus Christ is great. He did set a good example of how man-kind should treat each other, but I couldnt tell you if he is my savior and died for my sins. At this point in my life, this belief seems incredibly far-fetched. Just saying, I believe Christianity is the lesser evil.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 01:51PM

Magical underwear and blood atonement aren't any crazier than virgin birth or eating the flesh of a zombie to save oneself from the sins of a rib woman.

It is the same amount of crazy.

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Posted by: rander70 ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 03:16PM

Hmm... I would have to respectfully disagree. The bible does tell odd stories, but mormonism preaches terrible doctorine that is actually practiced. These days in order to be a Christian you have to "believe in Christ." Although there are plenty of people who call themselves christians out there that will pick and choose what they want to believe in the bible and completely skip the whole point of christianity, which is jesus. Thats it. There are much more requirements to be considered a Mormon, including believing in a MAN'S words that apparently "get you to heaven." This man requires that you pay 10% of your money, practically forces you into callings, traps you into crazy rituals in the temple, etc. Christians? "Believe in Jesus." All the virgin mary @#$%& and laws of the book you can pretty much toss out as long as you BIJ. I agree with you Timothy, they are all POS, but I do see a difference.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 05:44PM

"...but mormonism preaches terrible doctorine that is actually practiced."

Like tithing and callings? I think your argument is that they are more crazy than average Christians because they pay tithing and clean the church area. I don't think that is a very good argument, personally.

Besides, Christians do preach terrible doctrine and follow through. What about the faith healers and televangelists? What about people like Cortés or organizations like the IRA? These folks are or were insane and preached and did terrible things in the name of Christianity.

Mormons are a different hue of the same type of crazy.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 06:08PM

rander70 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmm... I would have to respectfully disagree. The
> bible does tell odd stories, but mormonism
> preaches terrible doctorine that is actually
> practiced. These days in order to be a Christian
> you have to "believe in Christ." Although there
> are plenty of people who call themselves
> christians out there that will pick and choose
> what they want to believe in the bible and
> completely skip the whole point of christianity,
> which is jesus. Thats it. There are much more
> requirements to be considered a Mormon, including
> believing in a MAN'S words that apparently "get
> you to heaven." This man requires that you pay 10%
> of your money, practically forces you into
> callings, traps you into crazy rituals in the
> temple, etc. Christians? "Believe in Jesus." All
> the virgin mary @#$%& and laws of the book you can
> pretty much toss out as long as you BIJ. I agree
> with you Timothy, they are all POS, but I do see a
> difference.

Christianity may be scary at points,such as accepting homosexuality in the sin because "it says so in the bible...", but Mormonism completely enslaves the people to work for free and give them 10% of their hard-earned money... all in trade for wispering lies into their ears."

You could be describing the Catholic (and some other Xtian) churches, which are also Christian last I checked.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 07:18PM

The thing is that Christianity is very diverse. Some branches are very liberal and some aren't. All Christians are not faith healers, televangelists fleecing their flocks or gay haters.

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Posted by: Timothy ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 10:56AM

... I guarantee all fall into one category or the other.

Timothy



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2012 10:59AM by Timothy.

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Posted by: frogdogs ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 02:08PM

Went to choir practice last night in the Episcopalian church I go to.

Somehow got into a conversation with a "cradle to grave" Episcopalian about why Mormons go on missions.

It seemed to be news to her that the reason Mormons serve missions is to convert, not to alleviate human suffering.

My parish goes on annual missions to Kenya. We don't do it to convert. Time spent there isn't on presentations about "the gospel". It's about being of use to those we visit.

Those who go on these missions don't come home with a brag (or shame) sheet of who they converted or didn't convert. In fact, that would be seen as strange and out of place. The point is being there, and being of some use, hopefully meaningful, to the life of the community of people we were in contact with. We're building relationships that have nothing to do with "right belief". The end goal isn't conversion: it's making life better.

The fundraising we do for a foundation to provide monies to send kids to school isn't about making sure they're baptized as Christians. Many of the kids that we send to school aren't baptized. The goal is to provide them with the financial means to complete 8th grade, and even better - graduate high school and be in a position to go on to college and ultimately be able to contribute to the community they live in. Kenya is a beacon in Africa in this regard, exemplary in its government for promoting the importance of education and trying to implement it, yet I can't remember the last time I read news about the LDS church publicly supporting the educational goals of getting more kids through primary school in Kenya and fundraising for that effort.

If they do it, it's all off the books and secret, since they don't make their budget public (and suspect they're too busy wasting money on building temples all over the world).

Over breakfast with a fellow parishioner a week ago, I discussed a woman whom the parish has "made friends" with. Once again, it has nothing to do with conversion or what religion she belongs to. She never comes to our church, and she will never be in a position to donate. But she is alone in the world. A few people in the parish have, using the parish's resources, seen to it that she has gotten the ID she needed to have access to public services so that she has food on the table. The parish sees to it that her rent is paid. Volunteers in our parish take her to medical appointments and see to it that her dog - her only companion in the world - is also gotten to the vet when need be.

I don't bring up the above example to pat anyone on the back: but to point up the difference. In being a part of Mormonism, this kind of thing never happened unless there was conversion involved. This woman, from all reports, is not easy to deal with, and yet from the time she first came to the attention of someone in the parish a handful of people cared enough to do something to help her. The parish supported them, without micromanaging the situation beyond reason.

So, as a Christian, I do admit that I care whether Mormonism is seen as Christian because despite the considerable flaws of both, the two are wildly different in practice in the world.

Any random person can claim they're a Christian. For anybody claiming to be Mormon, they're held to a different standard: proof of baptism/confirmation. So it does seem easier to criticize the Christians of the world: they're a ragtag, nutty, wildly fractured bunch that can include highly educated, principled and deep-thinking individuals as well as Bubba Hypocrite living in a trailer park and spending his days watching reality TV. They're all over the map, yet Mormons are afforded the distinction of being able to hold themselves apart as a "special", "devout", worthy of respect minority, with their unique "family values". They are not, in our wider culture, truly subjected to the deserved cricticism the Christian world is rightly held to. They're handled with kid gloves.

As someone who left the church 20+ years ago and who has spent the last 20+ years living in the northeastern U.S., I can assure you nobody knows *squat* about Mormonism beyond vague notions of past polygamy, and the current no drinkie, no smokie "purity" code. If they think of mormonism at all, it's because they know one seemingly upstanding mormon family or individual, and because of that they seem to hold it in an awe of "respectability" that it in no way deserves.

In my mind, Christianity, particularly the robust and thinking Christianity that dominates liberal mainline churches across America today - deserves far more respect than Mormonism.

So yeah - I care if Mormonism is seen as "no better, no worse than" Christianity. There are significant differences, in my opinion and experience.

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Posted by: Aaron Hines ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 02:18PM

Two things: First, your church sounds like it takes care of your community, which is great and commendable. Your missionary program sounds fantastic...such a mirror image of the Mormon Elders who get yelled at if they spend more than an hour or two a week in service. Thank you for making the world a better place.

Second, is your username a Huttball reference? =) (I quit SWTOR a couple months ago, but it was fun for a while.)

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Posted by: Timothy ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 01:51PM

I submit both are evil, regardless of degree, and should be discarded which would be a third option.

The OP is right. One POS might not smell as bad as another POS, but they're both still PsOS!

Call in the clean-up crew!

Timothy

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Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 01:52PM

1,2,3 not it (caring)

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 01:55PM


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Posted by: T-Bone ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 07:06PM

Mormons were once taught that they are a peculiar people. They used to be proud that they were not Christians. They used to be proud to be different.

In fact, they defined Christian churches as those who were deceived in the great apostasy. We were told when I was a child that we were never supposed to say, "Yeah, we're just like you" to Christians. We were told to tell everybody we were different.

But when it suits their needs, Mormons will claim to be Christian. Why? Christianity is a sacred cow. Most people think religion gets a free pass in America. Not true. Only Jews and Christians get a free pass.

So Mormons want a free pass. That's why they have changed their tune. So when trying to convert a Christian to Mormonism, missionaries will say, "Yeah, we're just like you!" They start with similarities - a common sales tactic. Build familiarity. People will buy from you if they like you.

NOTE: More about that free pass.
If I want to discriminate against a group, say homosexuals, it would usually be against the law. But if I say it's against my religious beliefs, I get a free pass.
If I want to be a misogynist, I'd be a pariah in society. But if I say that women have to live this way because of religion, I get a free pass. (OK, Islam gets a free pass on some things, too!)

Pretty much anything I want to do that would normally get me banished from any modern society gets a free pass if I can say it's my religion.

<sarcasm> The trick is to find a religion that teaches hate against all the thinks you hate. Then you get a free pass! </sarcasm>

T-Bone

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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 07:15PM

It might be important to you if you're involved in it deeply, but to everyone else, it's a geek-battle over something entirely FICTIONAL.

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Posted by: T-Bone ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 11:36AM

I once saw a picture of a Star Destroyer facing off with The USS Enterprise. Above them, it said, "Who would win?"

Underneath, it said, "While you're debating that, I'll be having sex."

I sent it to a friend. He wrote back with a dissertation on why the Enterprise would win. He was a 30 year old virgin...

T

helamonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It might be important to you if you're involved in
> it deeply, but to everyone else, it's a
> geek-battle over something entirely FICTIONAL.

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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 11:38AM

<facepalm>

Actually, no. This calls for an even more extreme reaction.

<headtable>

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Posted by: Don Bagley ( )
Date: June 13, 2012 07:22PM

Generic Christiany is forty proof hooch. Mormonism is one hundred proof. Both will mess you up, but the hundred proof is flammable.

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Posted by: Timothy ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 10:58AM

Flammable indeed, Don Bagely!

Timothy

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Posted by: xyz ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 11:36AM

+1! LOL!

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Posted by: frogdogs ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 02:15PM

Don Bagley, my hat's off to you, sir!

A very apt and succinct analogy.

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Posted by: elcid ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 11:20AM

All organized religion is weird. Maybe things are just simpler, and much more straight forward.

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Posted by: Tara ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 11:28AM

Christianity rests on the premise that there is a gulf between human and deity (and therefore we need help to bridge that gap, hence organized religions).

Paganism -- and a lot of Eastern spiritual paths -- don't believe the gap exists (therefore, we don't need somebody to fix it for us).

From that point of view, it doesn't matter which flavor of Christian they are, they're selling something I don't need or want.

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Posted by: Human ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 01:05PM

...damnit!


***THANKS to Mitt Romney, a Broadway hit and a relentless marketing campaign by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Mormons seem to be everywhere.

This is the so-called Mormon Moment: a strange convergence of developments offering Mormons hope that the Christian nation that persecuted, banished or killed them in the 19th century will finally love them as fellow Christians.

I want to be on record about this. I’m about as genuine a Mormon as you’ll find — a templegoer with a Utah pedigree and an administrative position in a congregation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am also emphatically not a Christian.***

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/opinion/im-a-mormon-not-a-christian.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper


So there!

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Posted by: FormerLatterClimber ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 02:03PM

It's the difference between a religion and a cult. It can be argued that religion is damaging, but a cult is BRAIN damaging.

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Posted by: jaredsotherbrother ( )
Date: June 14, 2012 03:13PM

Is "wether mormonism" some kind of gynocratic sheep cult offshoot of the mainstream cult?

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