I tried to post this to eekel's thread but it's closed.

Speaking of tiresome.......

This is one of the most tiresome statements:

"My problem is I'm looking for people who have tried looking at the issue from both sides"

Let's see here.... I got to hear the mormon side for 30 years. I studied the other side for a little less than a year and I was totally out.

So Let's compare 30 years to less than a year.

Now what was that about trying to find people who can look at both sides?

The problem is the purpose of this site isn't to look at the issue from both sides. There are plenty of us here who have done that extensively - for years and years.

The reason we are here is typically because we have already done that and are finished with that phase. We've made our decisions and conclusions. There are more appropriate places like MormonThink to look at the issue from both sides.

We are here to work through the anger, isolation, etc. To come here to passively-aggressively accuse people for doing exactly what the purpose of the site is is ridiculous.

We've already made our decision after looking at both sides. We are now dealing with the fallout of what we discovered.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 02:34PM by bc.

I absolutely agree.

When I was studying my way out, I would get variations of eekel's statements from family and friends things like:

Why are you only looking at one side? Why aren't you looking into what the church says about that? You need to be fair and look at both sides

My response was that the church had 30 years to give me their side of things. I think it's time now to examine the other side.

When I was on the way out and talking with a member of the stake presidency he asked me to make sure I was giving "equal time" to both sides of the issue.

I laughed internally and readily agreed. I'm still working towards that goal but haven't spent nearly as much time yet studying it as a non-believer as I did a believer. The 50+ times I read the BoM alone still has a lot of "equaling out" to do. I'd say I'm still about 90%/10% with 90% reading "pro-Mormon" stuff.

I am impressed that you had a Stake President that actually said you should spend 50/50 on the issue. My experience is church leaders saying anything negative towards the church should be avoided at all costs.

That is so well stated BC. I'm glad this site is here. Making a huge life altering decision such as leaving a religion, especially if all of your family and your friends are in it, is very stressful. I just left recently and am going through the stages of grief I read about on another posting somewhere. I feel a bit lost right now. This was a huge part of our lives. We are not looking forward to the pain we're going to have to endure from the friends and family that may leave us now because they may not understand how we feel or don't want to accept why. Thank you to everyone that is supportive on this site. I'm glad we found it, despite the hurtful people. :)

I for one don't think that JS started out to get teenage loving. I think he was shocked, surprised, and elated that his fraud opened up that particular door.

I looked at, studied, lived, believed, and was completely immersed in the mormon religion for 50 years.

It was all undone in less than a day. Truth cuts its own way. AND, it can cut very quickly and cleanly as it did for me.

I know mormonism inside and out. I've been through just about every ordinance they have to offer. Because I am a woman there are many that were denied me. How many more years do TBM's think I should study a religion that isn't what it purports to be?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 06:28PM by serena.

there is only one side to be on once you see the truth, no need to look at both sides anymore.

... and you can probably guess my conclusion. I'll say this, though. I still admire JS. He was more of a pimp than Frank Lucas. A dude who can sell the line, "an angel threatened to cut my head with a sword if I don't marry all these hot chicks" possesses another level of game entirely. Even Wilt couldn't pull that one.

As for your Brigham Young, that man is just plain revolting.

I have actually heard of Rough Stone Rolling... and that it was quasi-fair, although definitely by someone who has a firm testimony that JS was a prophet of God, and is seeking to justify his actions to reconcile them to that ultimate thesis. Maybe I'll buy a copy.

A con man who still have 14 million people believing 150 years later is pretty impressive no matter how you slice it.

1. Not all 14 million believe.
2. The declining rate of growth, if there is any real growth at all, augurs for real decline in the near future and, because the church MUST have growth for its business model, collapse is certain. I could probably calculate now the membership totals for the next twenty years. The decline cannot be prevented.

Yeah it is certainly not 14 million. More like 5 million who are actually believing and living their life according to mormon doctrine.

The issues I have with the church were not a result of coming to the exmormon.org site. It was a result of reading church history, church doctrine.

However when I would ask about that, the response would be, that is no longer valid, or that church leader was speaking as a man when he said that....

When relying on the church as the source and 2 + 2 =5... Looking at both sides is kind of impossible.

My favorite youtube video is the guy that goes through all of the official church books. When he gets to the book Mormon Doctrine, the church official states "That's officially not official".. What a trip!!

>>>>>Eekle, you are getting a recovery site confused with a doctrinal site. If you don't want emotion, there are PLENTY of sites that go line by line, precept upon precept and show how the doctrine and leaders contradict themselves, using church material. No emotion involved.. A recovery site is for expressing yourself through emotion!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 03:15PM by laytonguy.

laytonguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>Eekle, you are getting a recovery site
> confused with a doctrinal site. If you don't
> want emotion, there are PLENTY of sites that go
> line by line, precept upon precept and show how
> the doctrine and leaders contradict themselves,
> using church material. No emotion involved.. A
> recovery site is for expressing yourself through
> emotion!!!!


This is the truest statement I've read. It's probably time to leave.

Congratulations laytonguy - you finally said it in a way that eekel "got it"

Well, if you can't stand the heat....get out of the kitchen.

still a ferret hanging halfway out of your ass.

anyway you look at it.

When a TBM asks me to look at both sides. I point out that they are the one's not looking at both sides. They need to start honestly looking at the non-mormom sides.

I have tried looking from the Mormon side but I cannot get my head far enough up my ass.

Mormonism is extremely vulnerable to even the slightest bit of intellectual curiosity. The kind of people who accept blindly are becoming more scarce as the Information Age progresses. In fact this is a problem for all organized religions. I believe that in the next fifty years all of them will have to change radically or face complete extinction.

It's high time anyway that the largest mistake in human history (religion) is exterminated. It is the main source of conflict, violence and injustice today.

They have been hijacking minds for centuries, It's time for Reason to triumph.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 05:03PM by rationalguy.

How often do you interact with TBMs?

Based on what I am experiencing their ability to believe despite all evidence to the contrary is going plenty strong...

Exmos have at least shown they can look at it from both sides. Most were once active devout believers and now are not. They are more than willing that they have been wrong. I am willing to admit I could be wrong even now.

How many LDS do you know that can say that? How many are even willing to consider they're wrong? How many can even see that there are real problems in/with Mormonism? From my experience very few.

Eekel is setting up strawmen arguments in an attempt to avoid admitting the obvious— Mormonism ain't what it claims to be.

It is interesting you have talked with mormons who support you reading "both sides." The mormons I have dealt with have highly frowned upon toughing anything that portrays the church in a negative light in any fashion.

And they are right if they want you to stay mormon. Anybody who reads books about mormonism from the church itself, and then read books that expose the church will see how untrue and fraudulent the church is.

The Book of Mormon is a complete sham. When I say complete, I mean every story it claims takes place in America is made up. The Bible has its share of nonsense, and I am not a Christian. However, the Bible at least deals with some real locations and some of it has some history to it. The BoM has nothing. I have read plenty of pro-BoM things over the years from your every day mormons to church leaders past and present. Sorry, none of it holds up to the truth, and most of it is ridiculous.

Not that I'm saying he actually experienced all those plagues and cataclysms described in the Bible, despite the history channel's programs portraying the plagues as natural phenomena.

My advice to someone that says: "My problem is I'm looking for people who have tried looking at the issue from both sides"? Well, in that case don't look in a mirror.

Sperco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Let's see here.... I got to hear the mormon side
> for 30 years. I studied the other side for a
> little less than a year and I was totally out.
>
> So Let's compare 30 years to less than a year.

This is me exactly. 30 years in. Have been out for a few.