The language they use leaves me wondering if they are there to support the gay community in becoming what the gay community believes best, or if the Mormons are their to support gays becoming what MORMONS think gays should be.
Using LDS terms at LDS leadership is a very effective way of getting their point across. They are not "hating the sin and loving the sinner", but telling the LDS Church to grow up and live according to its own teachings.
Did you see that I posted the "approved signage" list? It was the same as TSCC, a very tightly controlled message. A message that was NOT critical of TSCC or its stance on gay marriage.
I saw an article about it in the Washington Post this morning.
Wow! How great to get 300 active TBMs to march. I would hope this would inspire TSSC to get another "revelation" about how it's time to stop discriminating against LGBT people.
The official LDS homophobia is what finally brought me out of cult 27 years ago. But even if they do change to be completely accepting of LGBT people, it will be too little too late. I've learned that there is so much other crap that I can never go back under any circumstances.
I left after I came out because I realized the LDS Church had no place for gay members. Since then, it's become so obvious that they have so many other flaws that they did me a favor forcing me out.
if they have modern day prophecy, this shouldn't even be an issue any longer. It already is too late. They've shown their true colors and damaged too many lives. Myself, I don't believe they will ever change.
To me--whether these people marched or not--they are still supporting the organization that abused those of us who have suffered at their hands over this issue. I begged for answers 29 years ago and they had not only NONE, but the wrong ones.
If these LDS members really cared about the gays, they'd leave the lds church.
I didn't click on the link, but I thought some NOMs marched in the parade as well. NOMs - people who are still active or affliated with the LDS church but may not believe in any of its truth claims. Some NOMs may be resigning in the mass resignation June 30th.
If that's the group, I think it's impressive that they want to show that not all mormons are alike, and not all agree with the open oppression and discrimination against GLBT people.
That is the problem that I have. They never come out and oppose any policy of TSCC. They do say that gays can have both, being gay and the LDS church. The only way gays can currently have both is to remain celibate for life.
That to me would be a clear message that gays and their relationships are not valued the same as other members. I don't care if they don't allow gays to get married in the temple, they can show respect for gays getting CIVIL marriages, even mormon gays.
Who are probably intellectuals/liberals/NOMs who can tell how their own doctrine and practice is contradictory to its own claims. Watch as the organization gets the credit for these atypical members' efforts to do its own damn job for them.
I won't be impressed until the COB staff marches with a big ass banner saying "We Were WRONG," signed by the Q15.
On the plus side, i brought my 2 little girls and was waiting for my TBM ex to give me grief about it so I could respond with "Well, there was a large contingency of Mormons at the parade, of all ages, so I don't see how taking them there was out of harmony with your values."
Fortunately when she asked about it later she just wanted to confirm they weren't exposed to dildos, which they were not.
"26 days ago Mormons Building Bridges didn't exist. Look what God's love can do! Thank you one all for your willingness to put yourselves out there for your LGBT brothers and sisters. Keep telling your stories and posting photos!"
Gay pride events have been happening, off and on, in SLC since 1974. I have to ask, if it took god all that time since 1974 to get 300 Mormons to show support, is that really a good example of God's love?
Then, Affirmation has been trying to build bridges with the LDS church for something like 30 years and has been rejected.
How many lives were lost and destroyed while those 300 people who are now acting like they are god's gifts to gays sat on their buts doing NOTHING?
They should be humbly apologizing for being so late, not acting as if they are something special.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2012 12:34PM by MJ.
I do think the church used these people to help move its image for political reasons, and I feel the pain of gays who have been hurt by the church.
But I do think the people who went out and spoke their minds did so with the best of intentions. And from what I've seen, the national coverage has been about how harshly gays have been treated traditionally by the LDS church.
We can complain that it wasn't enough, but I think I want to give credit to those who at least tried. We can hope their are more TBMs today who will think about standing up to the church on this issue. They've seen courage in action now.
Here's what one parent of a gay Mormon wrote today about her experience as one of the 300 MBB marchers:
Today's experience of marching in the pride parade in the "Mormon's Building Bridges" group was a most incredible experience. There we were, all decked out in our Sunday best...old and very young, and everyone in between. I made friends with a wonderful man in a wheel chair. His elderly wife was there along with their son who I assume was gay. There was an elderly lady with a cane limping along with the help of a muscular young man kindly holding an umbrella over her for shade. Families with little children in Sunday best handed out "love one another" suckers. Signs of "Love one another", "We are all God's children" poked out of the sea of people. My brother did a pretty good educated guess that there were more than 400 mormon marchers there! And to think they conservatively planned on 100!
The best part was the crowd........most everyone in the crowd was visibly moved. They had a look of awe, surprise, and respect on their faces as they applauded....many with tears in their eyes, and some outright crying, saying "thank you, thank you" over and over.
My "moment" I won't forget was when I spotted a young man about 20 years old standing with a group of 4 other young men, He looked just like "Casey" my son's partner. I could tell that he was overcome with strong emotion. He was doing everything he could to contain himself. I thought to myself..... what is his story? Surely he has felt the sting of rejection, hatred and bigotry on his life's journey. But somehow in that moment I recognized that he may have resurrected hope that the world is not as bad as he thought.
Because he/she was there, somebody might have had resurrected hope. To which I say, "Oh, thank you for being god's gift to gays".
I want to ask people like that, "Do you realize that the tithing you are paying my have been what financed the hate, rejection and bigotry that he was stung by?" or "What makes you think he hopeless until you walked by?"
Its fine to offer help and to be moved, but don't act like the Saviour as arrived, and they are he, just because you marched in a Gay Pride Parade.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2012 02:28PM by MJ.
I would like to think positively about it rather than skeptical. It could be well-intentioned. Most people, I would think, are compelled to march because they have family members or friends they love dearly who have been hurt and they don't like it. People are becoming more enlightened. Maybe they aren't "there" yet, but it is an acknowledgment on their part that things aren't quite right in their church. Will they say it out loud? Maybe not yet. Do they believe in gay marriage? Maybe not yet. All they know is that they want to stand. It takes time. Religious ties are ties that bind. It won't make the church look tolerant. Everyone knows their stand on it. They made it clear.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2012 02:39PM by suckafoo.
I have to wonder how many teens committed suicide because will intentioned, loving parents doing what they thought was right and supportive sent their kids to Evergreen?
As I have said over and over, I will reserve judgment and remain skeptical until they make it clear that they are here to support us for who WE are and are not here to "support" us to be what TSCC says we should be.
I don't blame you for being skeptical. You probably have reason to be. I just like to try and think the best. I suppose I have changed a lot in the past 5 years on how I feel about it so I think that it is possible that others will too. When I learned better I thought better. When it became personal for me, I changed my mind. I used to think it was a choice and now I don't. I used to think gay marriage wasn't right but now I think it isn't right to deny a couple that privilege if they want it. And it all started with me changing based on my personal relationships I have with people I respect that have been hurt which I had not realized to what extent because I was ignorant before. I wouldn't march just because I'm not much of a marcher or sign holder or protester. But I don't attend any church because of basically this one issue. I don't think it is right to hurt people.
The Mormons prey on those who only assume the best of motives.
I learned a looooong time ago that if I wished to have any contact whatsoever with Mormons and not walk away afterward feeling like I had been mugged, I had to approach that contact in the most cynical frame of mind I could conjure up.
Mormons bring it on themselves because they insist on being deceitful, underhanded sneaks ALL THE TIME. The history of Mormon two-faced double-dealing with LGBTs leaves me extremely skeptical of any gesture. The cult is going to have to work double overtime to make up for their heinous past.
Are you kidding me? Extremely suspicious that this has to do with a certain election campaign, not genuine love for gays.
Let's be real - if Romney weren't running, it's most likely that these Mormons would not have participated in a gay pride parade.
I was at a gay pride parade last summer before the election was heating up and nope, not one single Mormon in sight. I remember a TBM family member being within range of the parade by accident and being thoroughly disgusted with the goings on....
Well, the marchers have also taken a lot of flack from active homophobic members who believe that by marching in the pride parade, the members are now gay. I admire the courage of the active members to stand up for human rights. Didn't mormons march in other pride parades (in CA)?
I highly doubt they were sponsored by the COB, and wouldn't be surprised if some are ex'd after Nov. I would have liked to see a sign "I'm not paying another dime to the LDS church until they stop supporting hatred".
Guys, give these people a break. As we all know they are trying to cope with cog dis with regard to gays and the church, they love BOTH these parts of their lives and are expressing this the best way they know how. That they use the word "Bridging" says it all. They're already thumbing their noses at authority, perhaps just waiting for the other shoe to fall (being called into the bishop's office for that all important worthiness interview) as they "expose" their true feelings versus the official feelings.
I've been watching this closely. I know a couple of people that marched in this group and I was there at the parade and talked with others that marched in this group. I don't think this was in any way orchestrated by the "powers that be".
I agree with Charles. We should give these people a break. I think this was an honest effort by some Mormons (of all shades... active, to new order, to inactive) to support their friends, family, and acquaintances who happen to be good people that are gay. It appears that their attitudes range the whole spectrum from the yucky "love the sinner but hate the sin" to being fully in support of full, equal civil rights. I can live with that at this point. It's progress.
We should be ever skeptical of the powers that be in the morg--they certainly see gay people as evil, "less than", and as a threat to "good" people. Any suggestion that TSCC is lessening its hate for openly gay people is wrong. They are simply lying low and sneakily covering their tracks in hopes of hiding from them Proposition 8 shaming and electing the Mittster.
However, all the information I've gleaned shows that these were people who are our best hope for gradually making things better in TSCC and out. These people deserve our appreciation (and fortunately they got lots of it from the crowd) because they may very well (at least those who are very active) have put themselves at risk to scorn and ridicule from their "brother and sisters in the gospel of love". I was touched to see them make even this small gesture of kindness to me as a person. It's not all one could hope for, but I never would have expected even that from another mormon while I was growing up gay and frightened in the church.