Hubby and I just finished round one of IVF. Unsuccessfully. I took a break from the board until I got the bad news, because I needed to be in a good mental space for the IVF process. Leaving the Morg a month before we started the process was just piss poor timing. Thanks, Universe!!

The thing is, when you are dealing with fertility issues in the Morg, the shear volume of 19-yr-olds pregnant with their second baby or 24-year-olds pregnant with their fifth, is a massive slap in the face to those of us who have suffered through years of disappointing efforts to conceive, paired with the overwhelming grief of miscarriage(s). You can’t get away from all the pregnancy and babies.

Further adding insult to injury, is all the very judgmental pressure put on adults “not to put off having a family” for “worldly things, lest ye be unrighteous in the sight of God”. Not to mention the number of weekly comments by women in RS placing themselves on a pedestal for having done what they KNOW is right by giving up everything in their young adult lives to produce as many babies as they could, while simultaneously criticizing the women “of the world” who put off children to finish school and have careers (BTW, I’ve worked on two degrees and two careers so far and they’ve both been very rewarding).

Infertility is really, really hard for everyone who faces it, but our culture just amplifies the difficulty so unnecessarily. Any affiliation with people you know through church, past and present, creates such an unhealthy environment of having it thrown in your face (with judgment) constantly, especially now that Morg culture has morphed in some really hideous ways via social media. Facebook has largely become my enemy. Kids I babysat as an adult are having their first babies, as well as my former Sunday School students of two years ago, and they’re posting baby timers and ultrasound pics all over their blogs and Facebook pages. Please, torture me some more, kids!

I realize there are a thousand different ways for people to put their feet in their mouths when they don’t relate to your difficult situation, whether it be a death in the family or a job loss, but it’s especially patronizing when someone tells you that a miscarriage was just a way for God to give a special, uber righteous spirit a body without all the worldly temptations or that things happen in the Lord’s time. Or that someone who is accidentally pregnant for the 7th time wishes they could give their pregnancy to you, whilst complaining about how much they hate being pregnant. Boohoo for you. And women, literally crying over not being able to conceive in a four month time period, oh but in the fifth month they were blessed for their patience and righteousness. Ooh, or the torture of the horrible Mother’s Day gifts being passed out to everyone female over the age of 18 at the end of sacrament meeting. It’s insulting. I could go on.

So, today I am really, really sad about my situation. Sure we’re getting back on the IVF horse right away, and yes I know all the statistics about success rates, etc. But this really, really sucks. I saw my healthy embryo live on the monitor, found out he was a boy, and took a picture home with me. He just didn’t survive and the Morg culture is absolutely pouring salt on this wound.

So, board friends, if you want to offer support, I’ll gladly take it, but if you feel the need to say something patronizing or insensitive, please don’t. I am in no place to take bad comments, and I am a pretty feisty red head, so it is likely I will want to box your ears.

Bah!

Fertility drama in Mormon culture is the worst. I'm really sorry you're going through this. I hope you have better luck next time.

That is EXACTLY how I was treated, then all the infertility issues that now ex DH and i dealt with were horrible.We did not however have the $ for IVF. These RS women would get up on their soapbox and say blah blah blah about kids, or raising them, etc,. then if I said something they would usually say one of two things..."You dont have kids so you wouldnt understand." or "You can have a child in the next life" What the hell did they mean by that, or how somehow they knew all about MY health probs, I never told em so how did they know? Mothers day was the worst...everyone who was a mother was getting rewarded for it...they just ignored me. They were a major cause of my depression, just rubbed salt into my wounds. Found that I could Not measure up cause I couldnt have kids...that just was more poison added to the mix. I really do understand how it is to want to be a TBM family with all the kids etc,. but it caused major depression for me...Now that Im out of said cult no pressure to have any kids, and I can do whatever the hell I want. I find I am enjoying single life again...I can come and go as I please, I can go do something at the drop of a hat..no need to get eight kids into the Mormon assault vehicle(minivan). I am alot happier now. Never did have kids, but no pressure to either.

I am so sorry you are going through this right now. I know how you are feeling because I was in the same situation 36 years ago. Of course they didn't have IVF back then,but I know I would have done the same thing you are doing. We lived in St. George and Provo during this time and that was almost unbearable. My friends used to ask me to do all the baby showers because I had nothing else to do. I guess a full time job didn't count. All these friends were mormon and most in their late teens and early 20's. And yes,they looked down on me and I was given the "message" many times about waiting to start your family.
Our infertility ended up being issues with dh,and the drs. gave us 0% chance of ever conceiving. So we started adopting,and after #4 I did get pregnant. 3 times in 6 years-all girls.
I hope so much your IVF works ,but adoption is a wonderful thing. My last 2 are also adopted and they are my world.
The best of luck to you!!!

I'm so sorry that you are treated that way by the very people who should be the most supportive. Hugs.

I'm blessed not to have had to deal with either infertility OR miscarriages but I've seen the pain it causes others. You are a very strong person to be able to continue to seek your dream after so much hardship. I wish I could help in some way but I'm happy to offer my sympathy and supportive thoughts. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and hope really, really hard that it "takes" this next time you try.

:)

the way i saw people (especially other RS sisters) treat my friends who struggled to have children. i was always there to offer a hug of support. the mean ladies acted as if getting pregnant was this major accomplishment, i mean, crackwhores get pregnant, it's not equivalent to a college degree! (and yes that's what one insensitive socially stunted sister said, "having your first baby is the same as getting a college degree")

and the women always took the blame too...i kept telling one person "have your husband tested" but she didn't for a long time, turns out HE was the reason they couldn't take a pregnancy to term..passed on a genetic disease that neither of them knew about. they adopted after that and seem much happier

I'm so very sorry you have had to become a part of this really crappy club. I've been through 2 IUIs, 4 fresh IVFs, 7 frozen transfers, 1 burst ectopic, 5 miscarriages and a stillbirth. I have so many pictures of those beautiful embryos and early ultrasounds of the many babies that were not to be.

I have found that even those who love you cannot *really* understand the exquisite pain, the indignity and the despair of having to deal with infertility. It wreaks havoc on your body, your emotions, your bank account and often your marriage and other relationships. Unless you've been there, it really is hard to know the utter physical pain you feel when you see another pregnant belly or hear people talk about their children or get all those mushy family christmas picture letters. Even my DH had a hard time understanding why I wouldn't go to baby showers I was invited to, telling me that I should at least be happy for my expecting friend. Hello?

Anyway, I did want you to know that I understand what a very hard time this is and how other people's comments and pregnancies can tear you up inside. So hang in there and just keep fighting the good fight!!

...and I'm not even Mormon!

The reason my uterus didn't work? I must have some dreadful sin and god closed my womb. First time I heard that all I could think of was slamming a door and padlocking it and just thinking about it made me walk funny.

An older lady told me I was defying God because "God made women to bear babies!"

I also got the 1 Timothy 2:15 crap... that women are saved by childbearing. So I'm toast no matter what. I've started hoarding the hot-flash pills.

Honest, I am not just being flippant. It's just my way of coping, being rather sarcastic, and it took many many years to be able to do that. I got called a failure so many times I really felt like one. No matter what, it was MY fault.

I finally had to have a hysterectomy. I was in incessant pain and a lot of other nasties I won't bore you with... My damn doctor was so freakin' lazy he couldn't walk to the surgical floor so his hysterectomy patients got stuck on the maternity floor. Now THAT was purely awful... talk about feeling like a misfit, a failure, some kind of mutant asexual thing. Hearing the crying babies all the time. The nurses told me to get up and exercise, walk around. Okay, fine. I went outside my room once. Several gals all grouped together talking in the hall asked me in a friendly way when did I have my baby. When I mumbled that I'd had a hysterectomy, I swear to you they physically drew back, as if I were a leper. They all turned their backs and walked away without a word.

The next time a nurse told me to get out of my room and walk in the hall I told her to bite me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 02:20AM by doxie.

I've already gone through "the change" of menopause, already had 3 children, who are now grown, and my Mormon sis-in-law told me, "I want you and DH to have more children"!!! As if she should be telling me something like that! Some people would think it was funny, and it might be from anyone else, but from her it's insulting because from her I know it's coming from a holy spiritual thing. Mormons give me the creeps.

The morg treated me the same way. But not because of infertility, it was because I chose not to have kids (yet).

I have never gotten pregnant in my life. I'm actually not sure weather or not I've had infertility issues, or weather we have just been "lucky" up to now. Wanting to get pregnant, you probably would not agree with the word "lucky". But my man and I actually do not want kids right now. So it doesn't really bother either of us.

Normally we would use something like a spermicidal gel, or a condom (sorry if that's TMI). But still, we have also been intimate many many times with no protection at all. I will admit that on those "no protection" days, we did stop early to prevent it.

But see, the thing that makes me wonder if I might be infertile, is that for every other woman in my family, the above methods do not work! lol. They all get pregnant just by using the same soap as a man, practically... Most of them have gotten pregnant despite spermicides, and even the pill. So... Of course, none of them are TBM, so they see it as kind of a nuisance, lol.

So yeah, I don't know if our methods are just working, or if I'm infertile. I've never been tested for that. I have healthy cycles every month on the dot. Dunno if that is related or not.

But I do feel for the way they treat you! Like I said, they did that to me too, acted like I was some kind of freak of nature because I wasn't having lots of babies. so glad I don't go there anymore, its such a burden on your sense of self worth. To heck with them.

Still, I understand that you do want a child, so I will send my blessings your way. Keep up the hope! Good things DO happen, they really, really do. I had a friend with PCOS. She couldn't get pregnant at all, never even had a miscarriage. The doctors straight-up told her she would NEVER be able to carry to full term, or have children at all. Ever. But 6 years later, it just happened! So never give up, you never know what could happen.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 03:01AM by melissa3839.

You sound like a wonderful and strong women. Good luck with your upcoming treatments.

It was one of the darkest times of my life. Don't let anybody tell you your son wasn't "real." I grieved for a solid year over the loss of my babies. They were very "real" to me.

Christmas is a hard season to deal with the loss of a child. Just keep hanging on to your husband and your dreams for the future. You will get through this.

Love,
Shannon ;o)

I hope you do have success. If you'd accept it, positive vibes being sent your way.

They waited until the girls were 18 to give them flowers?
In the last ward I was in they were handed out to the 12 year olds on up. Way to entrench the programming!
Sick sick sick. I'm sorry you had to deal with insensitive clods.

I am very sorry you are going through this as well. My lovely nevermo sister & brother-in-law went through many rounds of IVF that never took. In between she actually got pregnant twice, but miscarried soon after.

My nevermo (but still a little religiously nutty) MIL when they said they were looking into adoption told them she just knew that god would bless them with a 'real' baby. I can only imagine how that made them feel since I was ready to scream.
(During all this time the younger brother had married young and had 2 kids that they can barely afford.)

B&SIL have recently adopted a beautiful little girl that we will be meeting for the first time at Xmas. They are so happy.

I wish you didn't have to deal with all the misguided people out there who think they know what you need to be doing with your life while not knowing anything about you or your situation.

You are so courageous and strong--so much more than your ability to reproduce. The twisted cult and it's dehumanization of women into baby machines is the worst possible environment for you.
With your obvious bank of knowledge and personal experience with the little-understood and rarely treated grief following miscarriage and stillbirth, I'll bet you would be a wonderful supporter and advocate for women experiencing what you've gone through.

Many women have translated their grief into activism and made a huge difference in the world. You could work with hospitals, speak at Churches (LDS need it the most!), and work one-on-one with women. I'm sure there are infertility clinics and doctors who would love to have a follow-up support person (like after mastectomy).

If it worked out to have a healing effect for you, there are others who are suffering in silence following miscarriage and I'm sure they would join you and there would be many carrying a positive message that they are not alone and worthless in a pregnant world.

You have certainly opened my eyes - I am sure I've been insensitive and have never given a thought. Thanks for your wakeup and warm thoughts go out to you!


Anagrammy

My TBM aunt and uncle struggled w/ infertility for years. There were a lot of whispers about barren wombs, but none about low sperm count and poor motility which were the actual cause. I'm pretty sure my uncle was gay too, but that's a post for another day....

Justleft, I am so sorry to hear that you lost your baby, infertility is so heartbreaking. I do agree with you about how cruel the LDS church is in regards to having children, etc. It's the same way being single,which I am with no children, and how insulting the whole Mother's day thing is if your single or struggling to conceive.That is one of the reasons, I left the LDS church and I'm glad you have as well. These people are just so brainwashed into thinking that they are only good as wives and mothers.They have no sensitivity to women who are struggling like you are. How they bitch about not getting preganant after 5 months when they already have children. I pray that your next around of infertility treatments goes well. Do you have a strong support system and friends outside the LDS faith, that can be a positive support while you go through all of this? I know there are several online support groups for women and couples struggling with infertility that a friend of mine found that really helped her alot.

Well, then try this on for size.

Return from a mission, get married, hump like bunnies for three years and....nothing. Go to a fertility specialist, hump like bunnies for another year...nothing. All the while getting the stink-eye from the morgbots.

Finally get pregnant YAYAYAYAYAYAY!.... ectopic, almost died.

Worst time in our entire lives.

Ron

DH and I have been through IVF too. We were bugged by church members and friends for years about when we were going to have kids, so I feel your pain. I stopped going to baby showers, blocked friends on Facebook that were pregnant, etc. It got to the point where I didn't want to go out anymore because everywhere I looked there were pregnant women. I'm pretty sure everyone thought it was my fault we couldn't have kids, when in reality it was DH's (low count & motility). In Mormon culture, you really are looked down upon if you don't start popping out babies right away.

When people would ask about when we were going to have kids, I would snarkily reply with something like, "We're saving up for a boat first". It shut them up really quick! Now, when people ask us when we are going to have a second, I say "When are you going to pay for our IVF treatments??". Works every time. :-)

I definitely understand what you're going through, and I'm here if you ever need an ear. Best of luck to you on your fertility journey!

having another child. our first child was all of 3 months old when people at church started in with the "are you pregnant yet?" WTH?? is it any of your business? they gave up when she turned 3 and then when we announced our pregnancy several months later on i got smart remarks like, "well, i guess you finally decided to be obedient huh!?" our families have some crazies but none of them ever made comments like that, so rude!! i accidentally brought up at a friends baby shower about #2 on the way being our last and was attacked again by a crazy fresh-off-the-plane Provo transplant (pregnant with #5 and 26 no kidding, also had a twin adoption pending, a few years after that she had a suicide attempt due to depression) who went off for 10min about the importance of "many children" while the other lds just looked uncomfortable... i used to argue with exmos who called mormons a cult but yeah, the LDS faith is a CULT!

We went through that for about 20 years. I got every rude and unthinking comment you can imagine.

1. Why don't you just adopt? There are so many kids out there just waiting for a home.
2. Why don't you try IVF? You'll be blessed with a way to pay for it.
3. We had some friends who couldn't get pregnant. I know what you're going through. (3 kids hanging on her leg)
4. We had some friends who couldn't get pregnant. Then the wife got baptized, and a month later she was pregnant! (My wife is a nevermo)
5. So is it you? Or is it her?
6. So.... are you trying?

I got to the point where I hated meeting new people, especially in Utah, because I knew what was coming. And when they found out we didn't have kids, the conversation immediately died. They had nothing else to talk about. They hadn't taken any trips, they hadn't seen any movies, or they only wanted to talk about church. We have lots of interests outside of religion but found Utah Mormons especially boring to talk to.

The worst one, by far, was a woman who told me, and she seemed like she was very sincere, that she knew exactly what we were going through and her heart just went out to us.

"You know (gulps), I know exactly what you're going through. It's just heartbreaking. It took us 3 months (eyes start to water) to get pregnant with our 4th child, and I just cried and cried. My husband gave me a blessing, and everybody had my name in at the temple. I was devastated." The woman had 6 kids when she told me this.

I just wanted to say, "Lady, go f**k yourself."

I even went so far as to tell one idiot I worked with that all of our children had died in a fiery car accident and I didn't want to talk about it any more. He apologized for 3 days until I told him it didn't really happen. But as soon as I told him that he said, "So, when are you going to start a family?"

I think people really try to find something in common with other Mormons. So if they have kids, it gives them a safe topic to discuss. But they don't realize, since so many get pregnant on the honeymoon or soon after, that it's an extremely difficult experience.

Another sub-line here that is part of the tragedy of belonging (and I do mean belong) to a cult is that it stamps out all individuality. People have nothing to talk about. They have no original thoughts. They have no creativity. And they don't even know it.

This issue has always bothered me. My best friend had a hard time conceiving as well and she went through absolute Hell at church. I used to think I didn't have the "mommy" gene because I never wanted kids when I was a young 20 something, but I think part of that may have just been my way of rebelling against the church. My husband and I left the church a year ago and now the idea of having kids is starting to sound more appealing. Maybe it's just my biological clock, but I think I just feel more comfortable with it now that it won't completely define who I am to be a mother.

Back to the topic at hand... My SIL just went through her first round of IVF and it we found out a couple days ago that she had a miscarriage. The sad part is that I don't really think she wants kids either, but she is doing all of this because she is 32 and tired of being looked down on at church for putting her career first. I feel really bad for her, she is having a hard time with it all...

My heart goes out to you and your pain. I wish I had something magic to say or do, I don't. Keep trying.

I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through. People can be so rude and unhelpful.

I'm a nevermo, but people are insensitive about infertility everywhere. I don't closet myself, so when I get questions, I just come out with it. That usually stuns people and makes them really uncomfortable, which in turn demonstrates how rude the question was in the first place, which hopefully means they will think twice before saying that to somebody else.

My husband and I have been trying to conceive for almost 5 years (I've been off birth control for 5 years and a few months, but we didn't start TTC until February 2006). In that time, we have had two miscarriages (4/07 and 5/10) and no live births. We cannot afford IUI with injectables or IVF at this time, plus I'm in law school and I don't know if this is the greatest time to force the issue, you know what I mean? If it happens, fine, but if we still don't have any children by the time I graduate, we'll consider treatment then.

I've definitely had pressure from people who think I should hurry up and have kids and stop putting it off. That's usually when I embarrass them by telling them that *I* would love nothing more than to have a child but I can't. The big guilt trip everyone's currently trying to place on me is that we should stop trying for genetic children and adopt. It's just not that simple!

I'm glad that you are able to afford IVF, but I'm SO sorry that your first cycle didn't take. :( Don't let the morgbots get to you. People can be so cruel, but it is usually equal parts not knowing what to say, not having a clue how you feel, and wanting to offer comfort (though often what they say is omg SO douchebaggish, they mean well a lot of the time).

Best to you, and may the next cycle be the one!

"Just relax, it'll happen!". As if it were that easy. ::sigh::

I am so sorry you are going through this. I have a dear SIL(convert) who has been unable to get pregnant for a couple years now, and I knew it it really difficult time for her, but your story reminds me of how obsessed with having kids early and often the mormons are. It must be hell. My heart goes out to you. Hang in there.

an acquaintance (no longer friend) of mine cried and cried and spoke to everyone about "infertility." she even gave a talk about "finding hope thru infertility" it took her 6 months to conceive one of her children. OMG!! a few years after that experience our mutual friend (my BFF) did struggle for 5 years to conceive her 2nd child and our acquaintance called and said, "i know exactly what you're going thru, it's so hard dealing with infertility!"

i still wanna smack her about stuff like that...

I'm sorry for the loss of your children.
The TSCC is a pressure pot of snarky RS sisters telling you what to do.
When I married my first hubby, an RM at the ripe old age of 21(me) I was in school. I was glad we didn't get Pg right away, I knew we needed time to grow up a bit.

Within a year I was baby hungry due to the constant pressures from the TSCC.
When I finally had my first child I was 24. I was happy and the rest of my kids arrived after 30, but I was always out of whack with the rest of the RS. My first born was the same age as their forth or fifth and they could go do a lot of things I couldn't because they had the 'built in baby sitter'.

I was grieved it was three years before we had our first. And we had a six year gap between our first and second.

It is no fun to have miscarriages, shattered hopes and the quiet desperation of listening yet again to 'sympathy' and un asked for advice.
I had a Bishop who would ask me every week, when are you two going to have a family? and Are you using birth control? This would be in the hall between classes at church!!!
I finally asked him "Bishop would you please ask God and get back to us? Because we'd like to know too!" That shut him up.

And I HATED the woman who said "Well we've been married for nine months and we've waited long enough to have a baby." she had just found out she was pregnant. As if less than a year was a long time to go without getting pregnant!! What did she know about waiting???
Or the woman who tore herself up on the testimony stand crying how glad she was she'd conceived again because she 'thought' she was infertile because her child was 22 months old and she hadn't gotten pregnant earlier!!!! The TSCC is a TOXIC place for infertile couples! Hugs to you. and comfort for your sorrow. (and no, I don't know what you're going through, but I do empathize.)

I totally understand. I've been through several early miscarriages and have been struggling with infertility for years. After too many disapointments and upon the advice of our doctor, we've opted to try IVF with donor eggs since the problem seems to be that mine are just not good enough to produce a healthy enough embryo to stick. It took us a long time to get to this point where I have positive feelings about using the donor eggs, but I'm keeping it on the DL because I don't think that a lot of people are accepting of this. I am SOOOOOO GLAD I'm going through this outside of the morg. I just couldn't imagine having to go through this with all of the comments from RS ladies with 20 kids... and the continued assurance that the only the only thing more lothesome to the Lord than a childless woman, is a SINGLE childless woman...

I absolutely hated the Mother's Day carnations. I always refused, but they were forced on me and I threw them in the trash immediately.

When I found out my husband had a very low possibility of fathering a child, we accepted it and decided we weren't going to do any fertility treatments. It still took a VERY long time to get over.

We got the horrible "why don't you adopt? Lots of kids need homes!" and "have you tried EVERYTHING?" and "is it him or you?" and "the lord commanded us to multiply and replenish the Earth!"

Now on top of my husband's initial infertility, I went through menopause at age 35, so there's less than zero chance now. But I already accepted it, so I don't understand why it's so hard for others to.

Mormons have no boundaries with any subject, and the subject of children is the worst one, esp if you have fertility issues.

Sorry for your loss and I hope good things happen for you soon.