Hello dear people...!

I am now six months into my relationship with my TBM boyfriend and the Mormon issue has not become any easier. I wrote over the summer about some issues we had in the beginning of our relationship. You all were really kind and supportive in a time when I needed some outside help.

So! I just wanted to give an update.

Since then our relationship has grown a lot, and of course we have talked a lot about Mormonism. In this regard we have tried to come to some understandings, but often we just end up fighting. Most recently, it was over the Book of Abraham nonsense. I've been doing my research. I've tried to be fair from both points of view, and have even read the fricking book of Mormon, and I always end up landing on the side of: THIS IS A BUNCH OF BS!

There are many reasons why I have decided I will never be a Mormon. Some of them include:

1. The prophet nonsense. Every time I see a picture of the main prophet dude he creeps me out. He seems like a dark person to me, in his eyes and his demeanor. We went to that Christmas broadcast thingie, and afterwards my boyfriend said,

"Oh, I always have such a hard time when the Prophet speaks."

Thinking he was finally getting it, I said, "Really, why? Because he was falling asleep while he was talking?" And I started laughing because it totally seemed that way to me! He seemed like he was falling asleep.

But alas, he said, "No, because he's so good and I can just picture everything he's saying and I know it's really going to hit home and make me sad." It was referring to a Christmas story about a poor lady having a hard time.

Anyway the prophet stuff seems like nonsense. They really do think the prophet is the same as Moses. I don't see any of those prophet people, like, receiving the Ten Commandments or parting the Red Sea.

2. All the weird cans of food and storage stuff. I would never be able to have anyone over to my house because it would be so embarrassing to have a guest happen upon an entire store's worth of bottled water and paper towels.

3. OK well I already mentioned the book of Abraham, but really? That is an Egyptian burial ritual. HELLO?!

There are a lot of other things involving my own faith in God and Christ, but most of our conversations end up being about how he is the only one who has God and everyone else doesn't. I mean, that is just a crock. Last time we talked about it I got so upset I called him a bunch of names. I guess I got a little carried away, but this stuff really can be upsetting!

So while our relationship has deepened in many ways, the Mormon thing is always lurking around. It hasn't broken us up yet but it almost has several times. Often I will just think, anyone who believes this stuff must be a horrible jerk, and then I contemplate breaking up with him, but we talk about it and stay together.

Last week we made a list of all the things I didn't agree with about Mormonism. He actually wrote them down while I told him what they were. He said he would think about them. I wonder if it will make him think more deeply about things, or if this is just going to keep being an issue.

I even tried to explain the concept of "doublethink" to him but he didn't really get it.

So, that's about all. On the one hand it can be a little fun to debate this way, but on the other hand, I keep hoping he'll come around.

Last month, the boy I had dated for 8 months and fallen in love with left on his mission. It was heartbreaking and terrible, and I'm still not over it.

Has he left on his mission yet?
If he has, I'm strongly urging you to get out now. My boyfriend and I never talked about religion, and what was expected of him when he returned two years from now.
My boyfriend never seemed to be a super TBM, but obviously enough to go on a mission.

This is causing problems now, it will most certainly cause a problem later on.
I asked my boyfriend in a letter if he would ever consider marrying a non Mormon. I told him I would never be willing to convert ever. He said he loved me and he didn't care.
This should be brought up between you two.

He may say that he would marry a nomo, but if he's that devoted, he's going to try and convert you later.
Mormons can't reach the top level of heaven if they're not sealed in the temple with their spouse. (Who has to be a Mormon to be sealed in the temple)

It's really difficult, I know. But you have to think if you can spend your whole life knowing that your husband believes in a bunch of BS. Also the topic of kids. Would you want to raise your kids Mormon?

Hello Jewess-

We're a little older, so the mission isn't an issue. I totally feel for you. It is hard. Since you're younger it seems like hopefully you will be ok. I mean, you have so much in front of you, and as someone who recently left my twenties I can tell you that you will change a lot and probably date many people in the years to come.

I have thought so much about this since we began dating, that's why I even tried to read the BoM and everything. I told him, it would be great for us (but not really) if one day I woke up and suddenly believed everything and could convert. I just know that's not going to happen. I don't believe it and I never will.

I doubt I could raise Mormon children. I am too free as a person, and I really dislike lying, which is what I would have to do to raise my children in the Mormon Church. If not lie, then support them in a lie.

He has told me he wants to marry me, but has also told me he wishes I would convert, so you're right on the money there. I don't know if there's a solution, but I do believe, perhaps naively, that truth ultimately prevails.

Anyway I am really sorry to hear about your sweetheart. I have heard about people making all kinds of relationships work, and if this really is the guy for you, I know that you could. Unfortunately we don't always get to choose who we fall in love with. That is the great and awful thing about love.

I keep having to explain to my friends, who think it's really weird that I'm dating a Mormon, that I didn't CHOOSE to date a Mormon. I fell in love with a guy, and he happened to be Mormon.

Best of luck to you! Hugs.

The OPs writing below is laden with red flags of unhealthy relationships.

godlygal Wrote:
---------------
> Unfortunately we don't always get to choose who we
> fall in love with. That is the great and awful
> thing about love.
>
> I keep having to explain to my friends, who think
> it's really weird that I'm dating a Mormon, that I
> didn't CHOOSE to date a Mormon. I fell in love
> with a guy, and he happened to be Mormon.
>
-------------------------

Chemistry with someone is not always in our control. BUT we are in control of who we spend time with. Chemistry or not we are all in charge of identifying unhealthy relationships for ourselves and making choices about our hapiness. Giving up responsibilty for ourselves because we are attracted to drama, or unresolved tensions, or afraid of confrontation, or seeking ego gratification when through getting someone to change for us, all force us to surrender ourselves to love in unhealthy ways. We do t have to be victims of love. If we remember we have a responsibility to ourselves and potential children to seek a healthy relationship we can justify moving on to find new people we have chemistry with. There is so much fear in not finding someone that we get comfortble and settle. I am not saying a person has to be perfect but both partners in a relationship need to be accepting and respectful. You have a gap here.

If things are this bad now, they will be 10X worse later on. He will never marry you unless you convert, and as of right now you are in a relationship that will go nowhere. Dump him ASAP and I PROMISE, while it may be hard, you will be relieved at the same time.

A couple of other things about him concern me as well. He is so set on converting you he does not accept you as an individual with your own individual right to hold differing views as him. Even if you converted for him, what if you dared to have an opinion he didn't like?

Just ask yourself, do you really want to end up with someone like him? Do you want to end up in a relationship with someone who is so stifling you can't even talk to him about all the things you think about?

Don't date people who won't let you think for yourself. It's an insult to yourself and to all the women who have fought against guys like him their entire lives to make their daughters' lives better.

DUMP HIM! He is a worthless partner and you deserve so much better!

"Friends don't let friends do Mormonism."

(From the Gospel of Timothy, chapter 2, verse 95)

Thank you Vhainya! I love your enthusiasm.

But it's easier said than done.

He has *said* he doesn't really care if I convert, but that it would be nice. He has said I'm way more stressed out about it than he is. I think he is putting a fair amount of pressure on me in a myriad of ways that are not so overt.

For example, I told him last week that I have really been trying to understand his perspective, but that I have come to the firm conclusion that I will never convert. He then closed his eyes as if he were in pain.

The other thing I brought to his attention is that all of the pressure to convert is on me. He's not considering for a second converting to any other religion. And he affirmed that. He said he would never consider it.

Yeah, so, I will keep you posted. We will either break up, get married, or continue to live in relationship purgatory. Either way I'm having to practice what I preach. I have been really big on respecting all viewpoints and all paths to or away from God, but this has been a difficult one to respect, I guess because it's not just about respecting his beliefs, it's about trying to fit into his beliefs. That's what hasn't been working.

Thanks for your strength...

godlygal, I totally understand it's easier said than done. You are caught up in a very unhealthy situation and feel obligated to keep trying to make it work with this guy. The reality is he's managed to totally manipulate you into feeling that way.

Why would he close his eyes like what you say pains *him*?? Then makes you feel like all this emotional angst is just you overreacting when he's told you flat out he can't commit unless you submit. Don't you see what he's doing there? He's making you crazy and it has nothing to do with you. You've given it a chance and he's rejecting YOU, yet he acts like it's the other way around. I have no respect for this guy at all. His behavior is passive-aggressive to the core, and passive-aggressive behavior is abuse whether you recognize it at this point or not. I know you won't go rush over to break up with him, but really think about it. Why should YOU feel guilty because he refuses to accept you? Why should you have to fit into his beliefs? You're willing to do anything short of losing your integrity and that's still not good enough for him.

Lets just get another thing straight as well: YOU HAVE NOT REJECTED ANYTHING ABOUT HIM. He's manipulating you into thinking that holding a differing opinion is somehow a personal rejection of who he is and it is NOT! Regardless of what he believes you continue to respect him and desire a long-term, committed relationship. Yet, he can't give you the same respect in return and the entire future of your relationship is based on your complete submission to his views.

I KNOW this is hard. I know you are caught up emotionally. I have been there - several - times. I never had anyone look at a scum-bag I was with and point this stuff out to me because it was normal in the culture I was raised in. I am totally repulsed by men like this now and wish women were educated on domestic abuse as a mandatory course in middle school.

It sounds harsh, but the fact you are so upset you're asking for opinions on what YOU should do to make this relationship work when he so blatantly strings you along is pretty telling. Please sit down and take a serious look at why you find men like him so attractive. What need is he meeting that you don't think you'll get from a normal, healthy relationship? Don't you think your views are just as important as anyone else's? Why do you feel like your needs come second to his?

Just stand up for yourself. Have some self-respect. You don't need his permission to walk away. This guy is the worst possible kind and you can do 1000X better. Someday he'll look at his life, realize he's never had any intimacy, see how attractive and independent you've grown to become after kicking him to the curb, and he will wish wasn't such a pig.

+1000

Well said vhainya

I dont think anyone could say it any better.

If he really is Mormon and believer then the underlying philosophy will be that you need to be too. Its almost inbred. And this will be a struggle for you the rest of your life with him unless he completely left the church.

You are in for a lot of unhappy years if you stay with him. My opinion at this point.

I was in a relationship with a mormon man a few years ago. I'm a nevermo/atheist.

I too was head over heels, etc

Religion was an issue. So much so that he ended it with me when his bishop, co-morgbots and family pressured him to drop the heathen. I was crushed and so was he. He loved me but he loved his church more.

But... while this was happening I was learning about the morg. Found about all the BS, etc...

One day, my perception of him shifted from seeing him as a 'religious man' to a 'cult member.' When that occurred I asked myself, 'Do you want to be in a relationship with a cult member?' Ugg!

The notion of having any sort of connection to a cult gave me the heebeegeebees and realising that 'no, I didn't want to be with a cultist' gave me a sense of huge relief and some sadness - I was heartbroken but free as a bird to recover (which I have) and live life; he's still stuck in a cult.

I dodged a bullet.

Seriously? Do you want to be with a member of a cult? Be very honest with yourself.

MOVE ON. This is going nowhere!

What you perceive as "deepening" is actually him trying to convert you.
Eventually he will revert back to being a full fledged TBM.

to see the world his way. It's a standoff - both thinking the other is misinformed, or an idiot, or full of nonsense.

What's the attraction for a relationship? And what is the relationship built on? Debate?
Baffles me. I don't get the attraction!

Why would anyone want someone to change what they believe to suit someone else?

You're not on the same page. You are not a match. What do you want? Certainly, it is not him.
Why not cut your losses and move on?

Don't Make Assumptions:
Relinquish the need to change others.

Real love is accepting other people the way they are without trying to change them.

If we try to change them this means we don't really like them.

It is easier to find someone who is already the way you want him or her to be, instead of trying to change that person.

The Four Agreements Don Miguel Ruiz

Good advice, I think. Don't agree with someone's religious views? Let it be.

I'm reminded of the Beatles: "Let It Be."

My parents used to be pretty intolerant of homosexuality. This was in the early 80's, but still. They were horrified that I had gay friends of both sexes, especially lesbian friends ("What if someone thinks you're gay because you hang around them??") We had a few knockdown-drag-em-outs about this for a few years, but I did get through to them. The thing that really got them was when they said how uncomfortable they felt thinking of what they did together in private. I pointed out that I wasn't too comfortable thinking about what the straight people I knew did too, especially them! They really changed their tune after that.

My husband, ex Navy man (boy, now there's some brainwashing!) used to be homophobic too, but he's not anymore. He's even pro-gay marriage, which is a 180.

While you cannot force change on anyone, you can certainly influence them, help open their brains to let some light in. Throwing in the towel is the easy way, the way of cowards and weaklings.

I will never just give in and let the bastards have their way. Never! Its unconscionable!

I'd be more worried about what such distasteful mindset says about his character. He's fine with the rampant sexism within LDS? That you'd never see him as the priesthood head? Would he sign a document promising he'd never try to raise any potential children with you as Mormons? That's the big one.

Some people can be open to influence, but some have their minds completely shut. Food storage? (shiver) He's a member of a cult. While there may be some hope, I wouldn't hold out and wait around anymore. If he won't give an inch, dump him.

The mormon doctrine and history falsehoods are one thing, but the big thing is that mormonism is a cult.

What that means is that you are in a relationship with a cult follower. From marriage experience with a turbo tbm, it is very difficult to have an intimate and equal relationship with someone that is tbm. They are superior, they are always right, they have the truth and you are a heathen. They are worthy and you are unworthy. They tend to act rather than be real. They usually love the church more than their partner. They judge rather than accept. Their minds have been soooo indoctrinated, they aren't interested in a middle ground, but you seeing things through mormon tainted glasses. Having one cup of coffee is a huge mormon sin, having one one beer is a huge mormon sin, wearing normal underwear is a huge mormon sin, not paying 10% of your gross income to the mormon church is a huge mormon sin.

I don't know how tbm your boyfriend is, but the cultic mind is... well... very hard to have a compromising, cooperative relationship.

Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out of the relationship!!!!!!!!!!

As long as he is TBM the religion issue will never NEVER die. In fact, as your relationship progresses, it will only get worse. When marriage becomes an option, the temple will come up. Then the pressure to marry in the temple will never end. Even if you convince him to have a sinful, shameful, civil wedding he will still bug you about the temple. When kids come along you will have to decide if they go to church or not. He will want them to go, and both he and his family will pressure you to let them go to church. They will also never accept you until you convert. All the while he will continue to use the Mormon manipulation tactics on you. Not only that, but the in-laws will do the same to you as well. I cant stress it enough:

Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out Get out of the relationship !!!!!!!

and only a small part of your overall relationship, project this out into the future when you’re so sick of frustrating conversations and of beating your head against the wall of his unreasonable loyalty/belief in a stupid cult that you just want to wring his neck or hit him over the head with a base ball bat in hopes of knocking some sense into him.

And the realization that he will never, ever give up his baby blankie that is Mormonism and you trying to have an adult relationship with someone who refuses to grow up and out of a religion that makes no sense.

Ditch this guy and let him go find some Molly Mormon he can commit to and they can listen to the Prop$et speaks with rapt attention, believing every word.

Run.

Your God is not his God. Do you *see* that yet? Not only do the two of you disagree on religion, you disagree about the very nature of God.

This is a HUGE issue that will not go away. All the weirdness and bizarre activities of Mormonism are just extraneous crap.

The CORE issue is that you and your BF believe in different Gods . . . and neither one of you is willing to respect the other's beliefs.

Get out.

There is an excellent book that addresses the issue of finding the right person to marry. Here is a link to the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Are-You-One-Me-Avoiding/dp/0440506700/ref=sr_1_1

The title is "Are You the One for Me?: Knowing Who's Right and Avoiding Who's Wrong" by Barbara De Angelis, Ph.D. This book was on the New York Times best seller list, and has sold over 3 million copies.

There is a chapter about "seven compatibility time-bombs", and one of those is a difference in religion. That incompatibility is a ticking time-bomb that is very likely to blow up the relationship at some point.

You say that you will not convert to Mormonism (which is an extremely intelligent position) and it sounds like your BF is unlikely to ever give it up.

There are millions of fish in the sea. You have found the wrong one since your religious views are totally incompatible. If the relationship fails that will cause you terrible problems and frustration. It might seem difficult to break off the relationship now, but the degree of difficulty will only get worse as time goes by. If you get married and then have children, and then the religious problem blows up the marriage, your amount of heartache and grief will be like nothing you can even imagine.

My advice is for you to (1) buy this book, (2) read it cover to cover, and (3) decide whether your Mormon BF is really the right partner for you. My best thinking is that you are making a huge mistake. But discovering something for yourself is worth 50 times as much as somebody else (me or other posters) telling you the same thing.

She said exactly what you need to hear.

A happy union would never result with his attitude. You would always be the one who needed fixing (while he refuses to even look at the blatant lies in his religion . . . is that not a huge character flaw?)

I just want to add one thought:

Let's just pretend for a second that your boyfriend deconverted and left Mormonism. Oh happy day . . . right?

Not quite. Even if he left, he would have a lot of emotional baggage that he would have to work out. He'd have his complete world view in need of a serious makeover. That takes some people YEARS to work out, and often involves some dramatic changes in outlook and behavior.

And if you still wanted him when he was done, you would be a pariah in his family, my dear. YOU would catch the blame for leading him astray. It's often tough for exmo couples to deal with TBM inlaws . . . constant boundary violations, often involving pushing the church on grandkids. Do you really want to sign up for that?

And he's still have to learn how to treat you as his equal. That wouldn't necessarily follow if he left the church.

I know you care for him. But my advice would be to get out now. You'll both be happier in the long run.

The things you like about a potential mate are easy to deal with. The things you don't like about a potential mate require far more concern.

In a mixed marriage of this sort, the non-believing spouse is always relegated to third-string status in what's supposed to be a party of two.

If you can be happy playing second fiddle to a cult, then by all means persue the relationship.

Timothy

Most of my thoughts have already been posted by others. I just wanted to emphasize that no matter how he is before marriage, there's a chance that once you have kids he will turn into a TBM.

My best friend in high school was sorta half a mo. She was always pretty flashy, wore tight clothes and a lot of makeup, but was a good girl. Didn't get into trouble.

So she moved to a different state after high school and started dating a Catholic guy. She told me they went to his parents cabin for a family get together before they were married and she snuck into his room that night. One of his siblings came in and she was so embarrassed but couldn't leave because she couldn't get out from under the covers naked.

They got married later, him thinking all along that if she was doing non-mormon stuff and not going to church then they were going to have a normal life together.

Then here come the kids, and bam! She turns into a super TBM, the kind who won't let her girls wear sleeveless tops, etc. I was shocked that she would get more strict than she was as a teen. And now she's so glad she didn't have sex before marriage because it would have been such a bad example for her kids. Typical mormon, revising history to fit the image she wants to portray.

I'm not in touch with her any more, but the last time I talked to her, her oldest was about 10 and they were still together. But they had problems over the church, and her insisting that the kids be raised strictly mormon and weren't allowed to go to his catholic church. It seems to have worked out for them, but it's not a life I'd choose to live.

Are you having sex with him? For normal people, after six months and stating you love each other, that would be absolutely normal. But for Mormons, sex before marriage is a huge sin, allegedly almost as bad a murder. Even masturbating is a huge sin. Yes, that is stupid, but there it is.

If you are not having sex, if you get married you may well find out too late that your boyfriend, now husband, is gay, or sexually dysfunctional, or has serious or weird hangups. Growing up Mormon does that to some people...

Not that the details of your sex life are important. But if you two are having sex without being married, it suggests that he is already way outside of what is allowed by the church.

But then, it would also tend to make it more difficult to just walk away from a guy who thinks he needs to change who you are...

"If you are not having sex, if you get married you may well find out too late that your boyfriend, now husband, is gay, or sexually dysfunctional, or has serious or weird hangups. Growing up Mormon does that to some people..."

TRUE DAT!!!!

;o)

My (now ex) boyfriend just left on his mission. Awful and tearful to see him go, I'm still not over him. But wondering if he's going to come home early is something I think about EVERY DAY.
We engaged in oral sex while we were together- And I'm wondering if he's going to confess to his "sin."

Hopeless as it may be, I always imagine that he'll confess, get sent home, they'll tell him he can't see me anymore, he'll think that's BS because we are so in love with each other (even now that he's away I still know it through our writing) and he'll be 'enlightened' and see what a hoax his church is... Not expecting that to happen in the least, but I can always hope!



Good luck to you, you seem like a smart woman, I'm sure you'll make the right choice.

If you think his fundamental beliefs are, as you say, BS, there's another discussion you should be having.

You know what gets you out of mormonism? Mormom standard works, that's what. They contradict each other: BOM - a man should only have one wife, D&C - a man cannot become a GOD unless he is polygamous, BOM - gadianton robbers with their secret combinations, signs and tokens are of the devil - the temple - with it's secret signs and combinations cannot get to highest degree of glory without it.

Then there is the plagerism. Most of that book is from the bible, including it's errors in translation. Then there is the most unbelievable stuff like the Book of Abraham which you pointed out, which is so obviously a crock. And how about when Nephi cuts Laban's head off, and THEN puts on his garments? Explain to me how Laban's garments were not covered in Blood? And them Nephi, wearing the bloody garments (or maybe they were magically cleaned by GOD) walks by Laban's guards? I don't have to cut anyone's head off to know that a lot of blood will come out of it.

If you study those books which are not even mentioned anymore, like say, Journal of Discourses, the things that were taught were so outrageous it makes your head spin. Of course, those were past prophets so nothing they say is any good anymore. Given that, you can assume that nothing the current prophet says will be any good once a new one comes to power, so why bother following him?

That's all I have to say.

Yes, yes, and yes! Thank you all for your insight and helpful opinions.

For the record he is a really great boyfriend and person in all other aspects. And no, we haven't had sex, not even oral sex, and in a way it has been really nice to take it slow.

Anyway, those are the disclaimers. I really appreciate the insight. I mostly just enjoy being able to come on here once in a while to blow off steam and feel totally validated by all of you!

I doubt that he will ever leave his faith. He has been so conditioned from childhood that it is the truth, so even when obvious things come up that might make him question it, he stops. Inside, he "knows" the church is true, but only because he has been told over and over that it is true.

It's strange for me because I was raised to value questioning, and was always supported in finding my own path and my own beliefs.

I guess in the last month or so I started to think he was in a cult, and as a person who cared about him, I should try to help him out. OK vhainya I am hearing your post in my head right now, but still, I do care about him. He's diagnosed with depression and I think a lot of it is from him not finding adequate self-expression in this world of his.

The other thing that I felt like you guys really reminded me about in your posts was how I end up seeming like the "crazy" one by going off on him for his beliefs. He will just sit there and say these things that are obviously hurtful (like about who has God, who is saved, etc) and then say, "but it's not meant to hurt you, it's just what I believe." He will be so calm about it. Then I get upset and respond, albeit a little too dramatically, and I'm the one who ends up seeming like I have a problem.

Oh well. Thanks again for everything. I'll post again when there's an update.

I'm sure after these types of interactions he then "comforts" you so he is made out to be the calm reasonable one and totally invalidates your feelings.

If you had some distance and objectivity you would see he is emotionally abusing you. Someone who truly loves you will accept you for who you are and not try to change you just because what you believe doesn't mesh with his beliefs. Someone who loves you would embrace your differences even when they are polar opposites. A healthy person would make you feel good about yourself even when they disagree with you.

Just because someone grew up in an unhealthy environment doesn't justify creating that for someone else. You're not obligated to him because he's depressed when he uses that as an excuse to abuse you. My concern is that he doesn't even acknowledge what he's doing, or that he's abusing you in any way with his passive-aggressive comments. If he at least acknowledged his own unhealthy behavior and control then there would be hope for him, but he isn't. His behavior serves an emotional purpose. As long as you remain in this relationship he will never have a chance to acknowledge how sick he is and that he needs help because you enable him to treat you like shit.

His problems have nothing to do with him being in a cult or you not converting for him. All of that is his excuse to control and manipulate you. If it weren't over religion you'd be having this drama over something else. Passive-aggressive behavior is abuse because over time, by treating you like your feelings and views are invalid, he is systematically undermining your self-confidence and emotional independence. He then makes you feel like it's your fault for not submitting to his stance while making himself out to be the good guy by tossing out comments like, "but it's not meant to hurt you, it's just what I believe." Right now religion is the huge focus, but it can be all the way down to something as petty as how you do the dishes.

Just sit down and ask yourself why people who need "rescuing" from themselves are so attractive to you. Do relationships where the other person only takes without giving make you feel needed somehow? Do you feel like meeting someone who doesn't "need" you won't love you in return? Fate didn't bring you together or cause you to fall for this guy. Your co-dependency and need to enable other people did.

Being an enabler is a difficult thing to learn to overcome. Just by staying with an abuser you are enabling him to the point he will never learn, never grow, and never recognize his own actions as unhealthy or wrong. You are doing not just yourself, but him a huge disservice by not walking away. Is what you're getting out of this relationship really worth that? If you love yourself, and if you really love him you will stand up for the both you and not permit him to treat a woman the way he is treating you.

By remaining with him you are passively giving him permission to continue his abuse and he will never learn how emotionally devastating his behavior is; he will never learn true intimacy, or what it really means to love someone.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 06:29PM by vhainya.

IMHO your analysis of OP's situation is 100% correct. She is in an abusive relationship with a cult member and he is a mental basket case. The only course of action that makes any sense for OP is to cut and run NOW. Hanging around any longer will accomplish nothing positive.

If OP doesn't take this advice and get out now, while she still has her sanity, then she deserves the abundant misery that is surely to come if she continues to date her TBM boyfriend.

One other point comes to mind. As you have mentioned, there is something fundamentally wrong with OP's mental health that causes her to seek out the type of abusive relationship that she is in. There is a 12-step program called CODA (Co-Dependents Anonymous), that is intended to help people like OP.

When I was in a bad marriage and it was causing me to have mental health problems, I went to CODA weekly meetings for over a year. I found CODA to be very helpful. OP should consider finding a CODA group and spending time with them instead of her abusive BF.

Oh dear. I had a very similar experience. Get out now.

I dated a very lovely Mormon boy for four years. At first, he didn't even seem all that Mormon. He rarely attended church, he didn't take callings, he declined to give talks at church, worked on Sundays, didn't want to go on a mission etc. He wasn't at all pushy like the other Mormons I knew. In fact, religion wasn't an issue at all for the first two years or so. When it did come up, it seemed more like he just wanted to understand my beliefs. I told him that I would try to understand his as well, but that conversion wasn't an option. He told me he loved me and wanted to marry me and that it didn't matter at all if I didn't convert. Then his family got involved.

The change happened really suddenly. He started attending institute with his sister and the local singles ward maybe once a month. His parents pushed Mormon books on him, and his extended family and new Mormon "friends" pressured him to dump me for a nice Mormon girl. In the beginning, he would tell me about these things and we would laugh about it together. Then he started to act strange. He dropped his World Religion class because his prof was "biased." He unfriended all his non-Mormon friends on facebook. He started listening to conference talks on his ipod and he told me that I had a very negative and anti-Mormon attitude. He tricked me into meeting with some vapid sister missionaries. Very late one night he called me and told me that we could no longer date. For maybe a year after this we would go on dates casually and he would text me things like "i love you but i don't." It was very difficult to move on.

Your boyfriend might be a very nice, intelligent, lovable person. But he is in a cult and his family is in a cult. In their view, if he marries you he will not be able to spend eternity with them. They will put intense pressure on him to dump you. They have probably already started.

My ex boyfriend who was Mormon also has/had depression.
At one point (before we had ever started dating) he told me that is was quite severe. His mom also suffers from depression.

Many older Mormons (mostly the women) seem to have cases of depression...
Just a thought.

Not to mention the creepy way that Monson talks. *shudder*

The only reason he keeps wanting to know your problems with the Church is so that he can find a way to remove the barrier between the issues and you joining the Church.

I'm sure that he's absolutely convinced that the Spirit will get through to you sooner or later and you'll finally see the truth.

It certainly doesn't sound like he's hearing any of the problems, or should I say proof, that the Church isn't what it claims to be.

Give him an ultimatum-either me or the Church. Take your pick. And if he chooses to remain LDS wish him well and find greener pastures elsewhere.

It's craziness to keep trying to change someone's religion.