Has anyone read Bloodline OF The Holy Grail by Laurence Gardner? I just started and its very interesting. Makes so much more sense when you get "the rest of the story".

While it is interesting to read it really is not "The rest of the story"

The Book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" went over that information many years ago. It is all subjective speculation full of "Maybe, possible, could haves and I wonder if"

The best evidence we have of a historical Jesus is the New Testament.... which of course is really no evidence at all.

Joseph Smith is descended from the Merovingians and you know who they're descended from. The next book you need to read is Laurence Gardner's Genesis of the Grail Kings to find out who Jesus is descended from. The Mormons won't be so happy with this one.

I don't have Genesis of the Grail Kings. Besides David, who does it say Jesus descends from?

And Cain's father is NOT Adam but is the 'Lord' otherwise known as Baal, Samael, Enki, Lucifer, Satan.

LOL, so, that explains why Jesus talked about loving/serving others, cuz he's black and knew he would have to be a servant in heaven! But wait, does that mean he was valiant or not?? It's all so confusing.

OK, the computer says there's an objectionable word here so I'll have to send this paragraph by paragraph until I find out what word is objectionable.

Zecharia Sitchin, who was Jewish, has written several books that he claims are based upon his understanding of the cunieform Sumerian records that antedate the Bible and were probably the basis for the earliest Biblical stories that were later writen in the books of Genesis and Enoch.

Instead of Elohim, the Sumerians tell of Annunaki who came to Earth from another planet (Nibiru) with the purpose of mining gold from the Earth (Tiamat). The children of the Annunaki, some of whom had never been to the home planet of Nibiru, were used as labor and to crew transfer stations on the Moon and Mars (Aries). Instead of Nephilim, this "sons of the gods" were called Igigi by the Sumerians. Two Annunaki half brothers, Enlil and Enki, led the Earth expedition.

The Igigi grew tired of their labor and work conditions and held a work stoppage where they told Enlil he needed to improve their working condition. While Enlil was thinking things over, his half brother Enki figured he'd replace the Igigi labor force with a force genetically engineered from the existing Earth primates and his own DNA. Enki succeeded in desiging the Adama and Heva series but they were still not quite up to his expectations. So he, himself, mated with one of the Hevas again injecting his own DNA into humanity thus creating the 'royal' model of humanity other wise known as Cain. Enki also improved the intelligence of the humans he had created in his own image with his own DNA to the point that they had a "knowledge of good and evil".

When Enlil found out about Enki's little biology experiment he was furious. He protested that it was unethical and that now, with intellignece, there was nothing to prevent humans from becoming like the Annunaki themselves. When the Igigi found out about Enki's humans created with Annunaki DNA they were delighted and found the humans attractive enough to mate with thus giving them even more Annunaki DNA and further enraging Enlil who thought none of this a good idea. That line of humans descended from the Igigi of Mars (Aries) considered themselves Aryans, descended from the gods. Enlil decided humans were developing too quickly and sent various calamaties to ret@rd their development like floods. Enki, in turn, sabotaged his half brother Enlil's attempts to wipe out or otherwise harm humanity.

As emnity built between the half brothers Enlil and Enki just as it did between Cain and Able, and Esau and Jacob, both the Annunaki, the Igigi and humanity began chosing up sides. Some humans actually followed the homicidal Enlil, just to try to appease him and keep him happy even though he was a real jerk and liked to tell them to leave the cities and civilization and go wandering in the desert. Sometimes, just for grins, he'd command the sacrifice of a son or he'd make bets with his half brother Enki about how faithful his human following would remain even when messed with in the extreme. Enlil forbade his followers from consuming blood although the royal line of Cain consumed it (google Laurence Gardner Starfire) to their benefit. Sometimes I don't think people knew if they were following Enlil or Enki as I think they impersonated and contradicted one another a lot. For example, the very people whom Enlil commanded not to consume blood were later told by a rabbi who allegedly worshiped the same 'god' to drink his blood for everlasting life.

In any case, those with the most Annunaki DNA are supposedly the white and delightsome folk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZmOTZeMiM

I remember that story, I read The Ark of Millions of Years Vol 1 and 2 by E.J. Clarke and B. Alexander Agnew. It's another interesting take on things. And, just as plausible as other stories.

Laurence Gardner did say that "much of what we now know as the Old Testament was first written down in Babylon. It is hardly surprising, therefore, that Sumerian and Mesopotamian stories were grafted onto the Eden (the Paradise of Eridu), the Flood and the Tower of Babel."

He also stated that "the cementing of the Hebrew ideal of the one male God did not actually occur until after their fifty years of captivity in Babylon (c586-536 BC)." Prior to that, they worshipped El along with the female deity Ashtoreth (the Holy of Holies, of Solomon's Temple, was deemed to represent the womb of Ashtoreth).

Fun stuff to think about.

With traditional Christian churches one enters between the upraised 'legs' of the bell towers through a doorway that is a mandorla and if one doesn't get the hint by the shape of the door, there may even be a Shiela na gig carved in stone above the doorway if its a really old church. Just inside the entrance one gets 'wet' from a basin of holy water and then procedes into the 'belly/womb of the beast' where the altar is located. Here the priest does his hocus pocus of hoc est corpus meam and through magic the word is made flesh in the host which the believers then get to eat. That is why Holy Mother Church is a mother after all.

Truly disturbing!

I just watched that youtube video.... my family and I all have blue eyes and white skin.... guess we must be Annunaki! LOL

According to Zecharia Sitchin, we're all genetically compatible with the Annunaki (and thus, by definition, of the same species as we can interbreed with the Annunaki) because they designed humanity using their own DNA. What it comes down to is which races have DNA most like the pure Annunaki and what that means for humanity.

This is an interesting theory for someone like Sitchin, who was Jewish, to propose because it supports the arguments of Nazi Aryans. Then there are some who propose that Jews and Nazis are not that far apart on some of their arguments about a 'chosen tribe' that is divinely entitled to a certain patch of Lebensraum/Eretz Yisrael.

In the month of September, Jews celebrate Sukkot where they spend the night outside their homes in hastily constructed shelters that are supposed to allow one to see the stars through the roof thatching. This is to celebrate the exodus from Egypt when they built hasty selter while fleeing. Of course a baby born in September would be born in the Sun sign of Virgo and thus could be said to have been born of a virgin. Furthermore in September of the year 3 BC there was an alignment of the Earth, Venus and the Sun. Venus, at that time, was the morning star and Revelation 22:16 says of Jesus, "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." Revelation 22:16 As Venus transitions from morning star to evening star over a period of 8 years (two Olympic cycles on Earth but 13 orbits for Venus) there are 5 equally spaced conjunctions of the Earth, Venus and the Sun. Connecting these 5 equally spaced conjunctions in the orbit around the Sun creates a pentagram. The mark used to designated the names of kings on the Sumerian Kings lists is the pentagram. According to Laurence Gardner, because of his superior genetic heritage from Samael, Enki, Lucifer, Satan, Cain's Grail bloodine ruled over Abel's inferior bloodline as though Abel's line was lower than dirt. The "mark of Cain" was the mark of kingship, the pentacle.

Wasn't Joseph Smith supposed to have been proclaimed King by the Council of Fifty? Aren't there pentacles featured in some Temple windows?

Gardner claims Jesus was born at the wrong time of the year, 1 March instead of September, due to unauthorized sexual union between Joseph and Mary in June after their initial marriage. The custom was to delay sex until December so the child would be born in September. The second marriage was only performed after she had been carrying the baby for 3 months, to guarantee the legal change of wife if she was barren.

Yes, there are several pentagrams at temple square, here is a link to some pics of them:

http://www.mormonoutreach.org/pagan_and_occult_symbols.php

Again, these explanations are as valid as any. When you have no way of knowing its easy to come up with any story you want. That we continue to believe the biblical account as dogma is the scary part.

So the 'mark of cain' was superior.....is that why they have bigger ding-a-lings?

I think the bigger ding-a-ling thing is just folklore.

The idea of descent implies that the past was the zenith, that it has been downhill ever since, and the best we can hope is to have some highly diluted connection to that ancient greatness. Baloney.

How did you like that stuff by Dan Brown - Angels & Demons, The Davinci Code?

Personally I thought the plots were predictable and the writing was crappy.

If you want really good religio-thriller "faction" (fiction using factual characters, incidents, or places), turn to Umberto Eco. He's still the master.

Cheers!

I didn't read the books by Dan Brown, but, I did watch the movies. Predictable but entertaining.

Ok, so, it isn't "the rest of the story". Its an interesting take on things, one which I've never bothered to read before. I recognize TSCC doing some of the same things that he claims early religions have done, namely changing history to fit their belief system. I think his explanation of the bible is just as good as the ones we get from other people. Certainly it's more believable than Mary having a baby with god and being a virgin. Also, I liked the translation of "there's no room at the inn" to "there's no place in the room", therefore they brought a feeding trough (manger) in to use as a crib. No stable involved. I don't know that any of it is true, since we have no way to verify information from the distant past, but, it is an interesting read.

It also isn't true that we have no way of verifiying information from the past.

How do we verify a story from several thousand years ago is true? How do we know the author was honest and not skewing the story to meet their own needs? Just because something is written does not make it true. The BOM is a great example of that. But, maybe I'm missing something...

Often there are independent sources which write the same thing. There is also non written evidence. Modern writers often skew things too.Bart Ehrman writes about his in his latest book, "Did Jesus Exist?". The methods apply to all history, BTW, not just ancient religious documents. We know quite a bit about the distant past. It is silly to say that we cannot evaluate it. We can.

For example:

The Trojan war, as related by Homer, would be much easier to verify if there were Hittite records of the war.

Then again, there isn't a record of the Hittites, rulers over much of Asia Minor between the Mycenaean Age (1200bce) and the proposed date of The Iliad as a written form (800bce), in the Greek records.

(All this could be off. Writing from memory. And things could have changed since I looked into this stuff 20 years ago.)

Bart Ehrman = top notch


You can't beat an author/researcher who is an expert in the field.

More plausable than what the bible portrays.