In a couple of weeks, I'm going to be sitting outside the temple with my sister while my daughter gets married. I don't think I realized it was going to hurt this much, as I knew all along she was planning on a temple wedding, and I kept telling myself I was OK with it. I thought about getting a recommend, but I realized I just couldn't pretend to believe.

But, damn, it hurts. This is one of those things the church does for control, and it hurts everyone involved. Not just us apostates.

I think this is probably why I posted what I did about pigeonholing. I am hurt and angry at the church for doing this to my family, but I won't allow myself to be angry with my daughter. She is doing what I taught her to do, which is the ultimate irony.

Runtu,
I went through this 2 years ago with my daughter, and 7 years ago with my son.
They wanted me to be in pictures outside the temple after the ceremony, but I just couldn't do that. I would still have been waiting outside, "unworthy."
There was no way to handle this so that they and I could all be happy.
And there is no way to justify the policy of the LD$ church of excluding family members from weddings. It's one of the things I despise most about mormonism.
In a very real way, I feel your pain.
PapaKen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2012 05:19PM by PapaKen.

I'm sorry. My daughter is 16 and I anticipate being in the same spot in a few years.

I'm so sorry Runtu :(

The banning of family members for marriages based on some arbitrary idea of "worthiness" is so wrong - it's almost like saying you aren't good enough to be related. I can't believe I ever thought it was okay.

I don't blame the members who marry in the temple. Most of them would like to have their families and friends there. I blame the church for putting them in that position. There is no reason there can't be a civil ceremony such as they have in Europe. Most of us want to see that and don't really care about the Masonic mumbo jumbo.

Did this a year and a half ago, it does hurt. The hurt does not go away because when I am around this daughter I remember my motherhood does not count to the mormon god, I must have a testimony of JS for anything im my life to count. I still have a great relationship with this daughter, she is my youngest and probably let me get more involved with her life than any of my other children. The church is a bully, "do as we say or you can't be with your family," that's mafia talk. Family friendly, my a$$, only if everyone is on board.

"My motherhood does not count to the mormon god."
Well put.

"My motherhood does not count to the Mormon god".

Such a sad truth, but yet so angering at the same time.

That really sucks. The same crappy experience is pending for me as well. Hang in there. Oh and return and report...

I'm so sorry for you and everyone else this detestable practice is hurting.

But because I'm the rebel type, I wish you'd all do something: sit on the front lawn of the temple with large signs that say "I can't attend my child's wedding in the temple", or "This family church bars me from the wedding."

Mos count on people such as you being miserable, taking the misery and doing nothing with it. Instead of miserable, could you please get raging, tearing, to-hell-with-the-whole-thing mad? Some good news and TV coverage would bring this issue to the attention of the American public, which is already on alert for Mo stories because of Mitty.

It wouldn't hurt to let your children know how you feel about them choosing the church over you. As in, "I'll remember this when I write my will."

I'm sorry if this is too angry and hurts anyone's feelings, but you know the old saying: Evil conquers when good people do nothing.

Real sympathy to all of you.

My kids know. But I don't want to make the day about me. It's about my daughter.

runtu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My kids know. But I don't want to make the day
> about me. It's about my daughter.


Yes. The church uses our love for our family to silence us.

I was excluded from my convert DD's marriage ceremony in the temple six years ago. It still hurts and ticks me off.

I didn't raise her that way but she really was trying to be a good Mormon and she believed the liars who told her she was doing the right thing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2012 06:36PM by caedmon.

While I understand the anger, using your daughter's special day to make a statement is selfish.

Even though the church is hurting you, keep your daughter on your side by remembering her tender feelings. Everything that happens on her wedding day will be remembered in detail.

If you are noble, it will be appreciated and the cruelty of the church in depriving her of her father will be remembered as their fault.

Or you can make an ass of yourself, which will not hurt LDS, Inc,one little bit and will always be remembered with pain by your daughter.

Make the best of it you possibly can for her sake. It's not a real wedding in there anyway--they are pledging themselves both to the church and then incidentally to each other with mutual based on their faithfulness to the church. A veiled threat.

Some have used the reception as the opportunity to "walk down the aisle" bringing their daughter into that great celebration with a ring ceremony.

Hugs to you at this difficult time

Anagrammy

That does suck. I wish this wasn't the way it is for you, runtu. You've been through so much and somehow held your @#$%& together, and now this comes around. You're a good dad, despite the morg's interference. I'll be sending good thoughts your way.

When it's over and she comes out of the temple, you say, "Can you believe that s*hit!? Now you know why I never want to go back. If you ever decide you want a real ceremony, let me know and we'll do something really nice and special."

i realy feel for you it is painfull standing out side the temple while your daughter gets married .i too had to do this and i cryed the whole time but now i feel mad at all these stupid people who are all about controling you as a person well done for not backing down and pretending you believed in there mumbo jumbo but i would tell your daughter how it hurt you not to by her side ,

Oh I feel for you. Mothers suck up all their hurt to allow their children to have what they want. (hugs)

I did it for my sister. Wish I hadn't. You can't win. You can't feel good no matter what in that situation. I hope your daughter appreciates what this is all about for you, but rarely would they understand the depth of what is happening.

It is such a great victory to see the church for the cult it is, but as they say, "to the victor go the spoils".

I do feel for you. Hope there are some really great moments to balance it out a little.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2012 06:21PM by blueorchid.

I can't lie to get a recommend when I don't believe. Nor can I lie and say it won't hurt when our remaining daughters are married, likely in the temple. This was pressed upon me as important to them but truth is more important as they urged me to recant apostasy.

Seven of our children have been sealed in the temple. They and another who is endowed will be present and probably my DW. To be at the last wedding I had to pay TSCC back tithing though I did not believe but getting the recommend specifically depended on it.

Runtu, I admire you for 1) being true to yourself and not lying to get a temple recommend so you can go to the wedding and 2) honoring your daughter's feelings. It's her day.

I know my own non-Mormon family had many feelings on my wedding day--but they drove 1500 miles to sit outside the temple, come to my reception and be there for me. My sweet bishop at the time held a ring ceremony that was geared towards them with great sensitivity on his part. I will forever appreciate my family's acceptance and love on that day. They loved me whether I was Mormon or not.

I salute you.

I didn't go to my older sisters' weddings because at the time I was inactive, and then eventually left.

I don't think they realize how despicable the church is for having this type of practice. It's hurtful and caused permanent, negative feelings between us. Mostly because they just look down on me with pity and shame, and I likewise feel sorry for them because they are marrying into a money grubbing machine that truly cares only about their incomes, nothing else.

But this relative CHOSE to marry civily and get sealed in the Handshake House in a year. I was much relieved, as this persons parent is a sibling of mine and I didn't want my non=Mormon sibling to be hurt. It worked out well...there would have been a HUGE non-member family very hurt. I am sure the cult advised them against their solution to this problem. I am sure it was a difficult decision for them.

Runtu, I am so sorry this stupid cult is doing this to you. I know your daughter is under a lot of pressure to do this and I am sure she wishes you could be there. It is a shame they can allow people in Britain to marry civily the same day, but not here. [I know it is the law there otherwise they would do the same as here, for they are heartless greedy bastards]

Oh, runtu, I'm so sorry you're in so much pain. Since my child was an adult nevermo--and married--when I joined the cult, I can't even imagine what you're going through.

As others here have also said, I admire you for being true to yourself and for not making your daughter's wedding day be about you.

I'm glad your sister will be sitting outside with you while the wedding takes place and I hope you'll have some happy moments with your daughter after all the handshakes and head-bowing rituals are done.

I did the same with my daughter last April. A month before she went in I told her that I was the only person that told the truth about what was going to happen before she went in. I stayed outside with others of my family who were also not worthy. I said nothing, was nice and sociable and danced with her at the reception.

When she came out of the house of handshakes she was in tears as I held her. We haven't talked about it since. I know not if the tears were because of the realization that her father was right or that it was sad that her father could not be worthy enough to have been there.

And yeah, it sucks.

I'm sorry, runtu. I was a convert and when I married in the temple, I did not have one family member there with me. My mom sent a telegraph to the temple wishing me well. It hurt her but I will always be grateful to her for her grace at a difficult moment. She gave us a wonderful party when we got to California for our honeymoon.

The church does use the temple marriage as a wedge. It doesn't have to, but it does. I am wondering if the is some act or some words from you to your daughter that will express, just from you, how much you love her and how much you wish her well and want to be happy? It would be a reaffirmation of your relationship with her and a refusal to play the church's sum-zero game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2012 08:38PM by robertb.

My son told me well in advance that they were to be married in a temple.In a round about way he was allowing me a chance to get my TR.

I let him know there would no jumping thru hoops to the Mormons for a TR. So with no TR in my wallet I flew across the country and went to considerable expense to support him. I knew what to expect before arrival and was quite familar with the working inside the temples.

I made a point to tell him that I loved him and nothing changes the fact that I was his father.

Mormon love is different than regular love and he has to be constantly reminded that I love him no matter what. I just won't support the underhanded in the back door LDS tactics that define Mormonism.You would think by listening to their garbage that they hold exclusive trademarks on love.

That day I went to the extreme to hug and celebrate with the couple on the steps of the temple.I found the day rather bitter sweet but supported his day.

In retro spec it was rather empowering to make a statement of love to my son on those steps and that the love I had for my son did not extend to the LDS church.

I sometimes think of the positve healing that would occur if LDS church had more compassion and less ego and allowed civil ceremony first followed by the temple ritual.Its not like they never changed the rules in their sorted history.

after twenty years the pain does lessen, but I boycotted the next reception for a granddaughter because I was not good enough for their Secret stuff.
they have learned that I do not forgive their insult, and have come to respect me mightily.
there is just no arguing with insanity, so try to ignore it all and think of something more cheerful.

...being inside at a Mo wedding reception. Screw them. I would go find a great bar and make a few toasts to my daughter. There is no way that I would want to endure a temple session and pay tithing just to see my daughter demeaned in a ridiculous ceremony while she was wearing a white burka and a silly green apron and I was wearing a baker's cap. Consider yourself lucky. If the Mos cared about family, they would have a church ceremony and a temple one either before or after.

Marshall



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2012 10:09PM by No Mo.

I'm so sorry. One of my biggest regrets (and I usually don't have regrets) is that my parents weren't able to see us get sealed/married. We were converts, and the only ones in our respective families. I know it hurt them and being out of the church helps me realize that it was a mistake on our parts. My parents were great people and I regret causing them any pain.

I look forward,to the time when the youth of the Church revolts against this by honoring their parents instead of the policy. There is NO GOOD REASON why a civil wedding cannot be performed first, and the sealing afterwards.

Including your parents/family members is to honor them.

The commandment reads, "Honor thy father and thy mother..."

It never says "Honor thy temple recommend holding father and thy temple recommend holding mother..."

Everyone who excludes a parent from a temple wedding because they aren't worthy, is breaking that commandment from the Bible. Of course I don't believe in the bible but they do.

I am so sorry for your situation, and if there was some kind of "civil disobedience" that would shake the powers to get some common humanity about the exclusion of family from marriages, I would do it, but no.

I went through this 6 years ago, and just yesterday my son apologized! He was very TBM and I am afraid to trust it, and I would never have thought this could happen.
Do what you can to honor yourself and your family. Keep your own integrity in the face of criticism and ostracism. It just hurts. I know.