The previous NDE thread turned into a god or no god thread. My question pertaining to NDE stories is as they pertain to Mormonism. I have never heard of a near death experience where the subject was turned away by any sentinals for not knowing any of the secret (I mean 'sacred) handshakes or tokens. It would seem that if these were really a requirement to make it to the presence of God someone, somewhere, would have such a NDE experience to share.

Does anyone have a non-mormon NDE story where the secret handshakes and tokens were involved in the story?

Those may not necessary until the judgement which is at the end...when people get sorted into their houses...um...kingdoms. (Harry Potter reference)

Possibly?

The text of what your told at the beginning of the 'endowment' portion of the temple is this; "Your Endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and the tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation."

Obviously most of us here have decided that it is complete rediculousnous anyway but I can't beleive that not one non-mormon NDE includes anything about needing to pass the angels who stand as sentinels and using the secret signs and tokens learned in the temple to do so.

I have 3 or 4 books about NDEs which were experienced only by Mormons. Some people came back saying that they saw Joseph Smith standing outside of a temple with the Saviour and some other past Church Presidents.

Some asked if the Church was indeed true and were assured that it was.

They also had some stories were dead relatives came back to give messages. One girl said a deceased young cousin came to her as a missionary, telling her that she had to be a missionary for her family.

So there are definitely experiences where a temple was involved, but I haven't heard anything about the signs and tokens.

In one story, a man landed outside of the city where Heavenly Father lived and they even mentioned Heavenly Mother living there also.

So if you want to believe that NDEs are real, you do have to deal with the many experiences had by LDS people who have come back firm in the knowledge that the Church is true.

The only one I ever heard is a faith promoting story about a child crushed by a garage door...

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/birdies.asp

Begs the question

'birdies' with wings, or without?'

Here's just one of them. There's a volume 2 as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/True-Mormon-Near-Death-Experiences-Beyond-Veil-Volume-1-LDS-After-Life-/150821541927?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D150794478281%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8608375195518408253

My point is....there is no NDE told by a non Mormon believer where they were rejected because they didn't know the sign and tokens. Why....if (a big IF) there is a God you sure as hell don't need to know any signs and tokens to meet Him. NDE's should be used as a tool against Mormonism. All of these people have gone and made it to some form of heaven and came back to tell about it but not one of them say anything about secret signs and tokens.

Mormons wouldn't expect a non-Mormon to come back mentioning signs and tokens, because only those who've gone through the temple are supposed to know about them.

LOL. But the poster quite correctly deduces that Everyone would be asked to give the signs and tokens on the other side - if Mormonism were true.

Thank God it's all a crock.

The signs and tokens are for entering the celestial kingdom which according to mormon theology happens after the millenium, resurrection and judgement day.

It is a typically christian assumption that we go to heaven when we die. It is however not mormon. When we die, according to mormons, we go to spirit paradise or spirit prison and there are no signs and tokens necessary there at all.

Yes. They wouldnt be needed, according to the theology, until the ressurection, not to get into spirit prison/paradise. Everyone goes there while waiting. And that would make sense since people aren't going to be barred from the celestial kingdom just because their temple work hasn't been done yet.

steve benson Wrote:I dreamed I was baptized a mormon. The dream nearly caused me to die.

How ironic, I dreamed my priesthood was re-instated for the express purpose of re-baptizing the Grandson of a Mormon Prophet.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!

luv it

The angels (whatever) must've known these individuals were coming back to the earth plane, so maybe the part where they get questioned and turned away was erased from their memories so no one would know what transpired.

You don't get to ck or hf when you die. It's spirit prison or spirit paradise. You'll have to remember the secret handshakes and stuff until after the millenium when you've been ressurected. According to mormonism all mumbo jumbo must be done while in a physical body.

+1

Yep your hypothesis doesn't hold any water because according to LDS mythology these signs and tokens aren't used until long after you die.

So...you die, then don't see god the father until after the final dispensation (at least that's what you have to deduct from that logic (which I totally see your point)). Not that any of it makes a damn bit of sense anyway but here is just one more rediculousness. Die and don't go to heaven until after the final dispensation. This sh.. really is to crazy to think up.

"" Hello from Heaven ""

JB

when I had my NDE, I asked to speak with Jesus. The personages who were present and attending just stared at me. I answered my own request, I responded; Oh, that isn't possible.

they said: that's right!

it took me many more years to figure out why it wasn't possible.

A Near-Death Experience would be a learning experience specifically designed for that person and tailored for their knowledge/experience. The experience was meant to teach some concept and truth that the person needed and was ready for.

OK,

I am finally convinced of NDEs.

This thread clearly had an NDE. It appeared to be dead for over a month and yet here it is...

hehehehe INDEED!!

I wonder if the thread saw a great light, met other dead threads and perhaps even saw Raptorjesus?

Funniest thing I've heard all day.

Even if Mormon doctrine were true, (it's not but I believed it was @ one time) I never thought the names and tokens were literal. The first sign of aaronic priesthood is raising the right arm to the square...where else do we see that? Baptism. Blessing of the sacrament. So, in my TBM mind I thought that perhaps baptism was the first thing needed to enable me to walk back into the presence of god.

I did have a near life experience when I skipped my Primary class and played in the city park. I felt just like a human kid for awhile.

When I had an NDE my experience was nothing like any Christian or Mormon doctrine. When I described it to an ER doctor I got a 5150. In California that is a non-voluntary 72 hour hold for psychological evaluation. The psych ward was a bitch, so I have learned not to tell anybody about the winged serpent.

I don't think anybody in County mental health will bother to track me down as a result of this post but if I ..........

I was going to get a tattoo of > 5150. I had a friend with one. It just is the number used in police calls for Mental case. You don't necessarily get an involuntary either in Ca., but it does tend to put them on their toes. You must of did well. lol


but I didn't
get either
yet


:P