There are often posts are here asking "Why did I believe it for so long?" or "Why are others so completely taken in by this?"

I've thought about this quite a bit. Once you stop believing the entire belief system is just so over the top ridiculous, the claims so nuts, the history so clear, that it's almost impossible to fathom believing in it.

So this has made me think a lot of why the hold is so strong. (I think a lot of this also applies to other religions.)

I've saving what I think is the biggest reason for last, but I think there are a number of contributing factors:

- Confirmation bias. We are wired to keep believing what we believe.
- We like to be right. It's hard for humans in general, emotionally, to consider that they may be wrong about something - especially something that is important to them.
- Social programming (peer pressure)

I think the above are big factors to change any beliefs - changing major beliefs of any kind is difficult for humans to do I think. However for Mormonism/religion I think it goes a step deeper.

- Religions belief especially Mormonism is integral to your identity - who you are at the core. Giving up Mormonism isn't just about the pain of changing and reconsidering beliefs and overcoming intense peer pressure, it's about challenging your very identity.

And challenging your core identity - who you are is a very difficult, painful, scary thing to do. So much so that even the thought of doing this is nearly impossible - it's much easier to throw up logical/mental smokescreens.

Some core things with identity:
- Who you are is so much more than the body you have. You are this eternal spirit that existed long before and after.
- You are a son/daughter of God. You are loved more deeply than anyone on this earth could ever do.
- You have the potential of a God.
- This life has a much deeper purpose that you are becoming something much more.

It's a complete change of your entire identity. If you grow up active in the church it goes even deeper.

- You are taught that your testimony is your most valuable possession. In a sense your testimony is you - it's more than just a valuable possession - it's the core of who you are.
- Daily, weekly, etc. religious rituals define who you are and give you a sense of who you are.
- Your family is largely defined in the context of the religion. The foundation of your primary social group is founded on Mormonism and dependent on Mormonism to continue.
- There are so many things done and said within Mormonism to reinforce that Mormonism is not just a belief it is who you are.

I'm sure there are many other ways that a Mormon's identity if defined by Mormonism.

I propose that to give up your identity is extremely difficult.

I think it is no wonder that so many of us were fooled by this for so long. I think it is no wonder that so many TBMs that we are surrounded by those hold on so strongly to such a ridiculous belief system. I also think it is no wonder that leaving can sometimes be such a painful process and require so much support especially when the change in belief is abrupt.

I'm interested in others thoughts on this?

I have considered that question and this is my perspective and analysis.

First, we are dealing with a God Myth which has great power with the believers. Secondly, the patterns within the church are similar to patterns in all church organizations: special leaders, special music, it's own language, special costuming, their own unique architecture, life-long believers, rituals around the same major times in life: birth, coming of age, marriage, death.

This is my definition of why I use the term tribe for Mormonism and why it is hard to leave it on many levels.

Mormonism, in my long experience and observation is more accurately described as a two century, predominately American, patriarchal-line of authority, generational, cultural, societal religious tribe with it's own sacred clothing, music, and language, architecture. The word: tribe is used in their lexicon. (As an adult convert, I was considered an adopted member of the tribe. )

Considering how tribes universally manifest, it is, in my view, the best way to understand how Mormonism creates a whole paradigm for the individual in a typically generational, patriarchal, familial, societal, religious context aka tribe complete with it's own unique rituals/ordinances, music, and language including special garments (underwear) to be worn day and night. It's their heritage. It's core is the Eternal Family. Disruption of that core provides the opportunity for mild to extreme measures for those that leave and no longer fit in the Eternal Family as they define it.
The various religions of the world have, throughout history, defined the specific rituals of each religious heritage-tribe. It's common for each one to place great importance on those rituals as the only correct way to perform the traditions and please their Gods: deities/savior, etc. Throughout the history of humanity, human beings have very often been instilled with the necessity of pleasing God and the horrific error and consequence of displeasing God.

If the traditions/beliefs, etc. don't appeal to a member of the group/tribe, for any number of reasons, and leaving becomes necessary, it is often met with hostility as the customs/rituals of the religious tribe have been rejected which is seen as a betrayal, and the prior member could be seen as an enemy as we see in religious wars. Not all religions take such a strong stand as many LDS believers do, but to some degree, those that leave their heritage/religious tribe will be often have a lot of difficulty retaining any kind of cohesive relationship with the believers.

Even those that may not be "truly converted" may stay because it is their tribe/culture/home/family for generations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 12:17PM by SusieQ#1.

TBMs have their lives So enmeshed (involved,surrounded) by their church-related selves.... the idea that there could be 'another world' out there is closed off from them.


church becomes self becomes church.

guynoirprivateeye Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TBMs have their lives So enmeshed
> (involved,surrounded) by their church-related
> selves.... the idea that there could be 'another
> world' out there is closed off from them.
>
>
> church becomes self becomes church.


That is true -- I experienced it myself. Not on purpose, but it just gradually sneaks up on ya. It did me, even as a convert! No time for much of anything else but kids and church. And it didn't help that my hubby traveled for a long time!

I saw a program on TV about the Hasidic Jews and could see a lot of similarity -- everything was wrapped around the beliefs and the expectations,daily routines. The LDS life was not nearly as strict in our case though.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 02:43PM by SusieQ#1.

bc, really think you've nailed it. It's complex, and you appear to have drilled it down to "identity". I've had similar thoughts. My two cents:

Q: Why does mint chocolate chip ice cream taste so good?
A: Because the cream and chocolate and flavors all react chemically with our taste buds and we dig it. Ice cream tastes good.

Q: Why is cocaine so yummy?
A: Because the drug's chemicals cause pleasurable feelings in the ventral tegmental area (VTA) of the brain.

Q: Why does Mormonism (or any religion) make us feel good?
A: Because it reacts with the emotional parts of our brain that make us feel accepted, safe, superior, etc.

And: Mix this with the incessant chanting/praying/singing, daily reminders, weekly 3-hour meetings, intense intertwining with familial relationships, etc. and you're forced to modify your thinking until you're totally ...... personally ....... professionally ....... emotionally ....... socially ........ financially ....... psychologically ....... committed to the cult.

It's the mind control and the contant push, push, push of our emotional and other buttons that keep us in. Mormonism has such a strong hold because it purportedly provides answers for our core questions and needs, and it does so in an relentless, cult-like manner.

SuzieQ calls it a "tribe" in her post, and I agree, but a "cult" better defines the mind control nature of it, IMO. A tribe openly allows a person to come and go. A cult clings to participants and shuns anyone who leaves. bc, you ascribe it to "identity" which is more akin to the psychological mind control aspects, i believe. All good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 12:45PM by doubleb.

" . . . make us feel accepted, safe, superior, etc."

The impression I get from a lot of the young adult Mormons in the college community I live in is that they want to belong somewhere and "feel" important enough to be popular, and the social politics of the Mormon church satisfies those needs.

. . . and I could tell from my experiences living with returned Mormon missionaries, that some of them cared more about the social part of it than the religion itself. I think that's why so many people take Mormonism in Utah for granted.

To me it feels like crashing a convention--which I've done once or twice in my life :) You steal a name tag at the front table and walk around pretending to be someone you're not just to fit in and get free samples.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 04:38PM by happyexmormon.

I was bic. When I was 8 I was baptized. All of the adults around me were staunch mormons. All of my friends were mormon. If I hadn't wanted to be baptized, too bad. I would have been told I was going to hell for even having the thought. If i'd argued I would have been whipped with a belt. No free agency allowed.

As I got older I didn't like church. I didn't know if I believed what they taught, or not. It didn't really matter. I had no choice, no say. In the meantime I was raised to not have a voice. To keep anything disagreeable to myself. I was taught that anyone older than me, and all males were smarter and knew more than I did. I was taught that I would only have value if I got married in the temple and had children. My PB confirmed all of that by saying my reason for being on earth was to be married and have children.

So, when I was barely 18 I met a RM next door. We were married in the temple 2 months later. I knew he was less than a stellar catch, but I was taught that it didn't matter. If you were married in the temple it would work. I tried to be a good mormon wife. We didn't use birth control. Fortunately I didn't have any babies. At the time though, I was quite distressed about that. There was a lot of pressure for me to hurry up and have a baby.

I remember having days where I felt like I was going to go crazy. I felt like I was losing my mind. I couldn't figure out why. These were the days before Dr. Phil, self help books, anti depressants, and therapy. I was on my own.

At the end of year two I found him in bed with a friend of mine. He was also drinking, smoking, and drugging. I was soon to be a 20 year old divorcee. I kept going to church.

As soon as it got out that I had gotten divorced, I was shunned at church. Everyone stopped talking to me. I was so confused. I had expected support and understanding. Incredibly cruel things were said to me. I couldn't take it. I stopped going to church.

Life moved on. I dated a lot, but wasn't too interested in marriage. When i was 28 I got engaged to a nevermo. Religion wasn't in the picture. We were engaged for a year. Two weeks before our wedding the lease on my apartment was up. It just made sense to move in with him. It made it easier to plan and carry out our wedding, which was at the house he lived in and owned.

About a week later there was a knock on the door at 9:00 at night. We lived way out in the woods. The driveway was a half mile long winding dirt road. Nobody ever came to our house without calling first. I opened the door, and two older guys in suits were standing there. I had no idea who they were. They told me they were from the church. They handed me an envelope, told me It was a summons to an excommunication hearing. I was shocked. I didn't know any mormons anymore, other than family. They lived quite a ways away. Not in the same town, ward, or stake. I threw the paperwork in the garbage. I didn't even read it. I hadn't been to church for 7 years. I was surprised that a feeling of peace came over me. It felt like a very heavy burden had been lifted. I didn't expect that. I never heard from the church again. I had no idea if the church was true or not.It didn't really matter to me. It was a huge relief to be free of it.

And that's the story of why I stayed in the church until I was 27. I went back when I was about 37. That's a whole other story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 01:00PM by Mia.

I think that's why most people need some sort of emotional break with the church before they will believe the intellectual proof it isn't true. Maybe you have to get so mad about their mall or their stance on gay marriage. Or maybe you have to realize the eternal family they promise isn't materializing. Or something. Whatever the church is "feeding" you, however they are "defining" you has to become uncomfortable. There has to be some sort of loosening of emotional ties first.

I'd always thought of myself as a Molly Mormon but those first few years of my marriage when I lived in Salt Lake City made me question that definition. The fact DH didn't fit the definition of perfect priesthood leader was another problem. Between those two things, what the church told me I was and what I saw was shaken to the core which I really think led to the fertile field that some years later the internet was able to plant seed in. But some people have Mormonism so ingrained in their DNA this hold can't be broken. I've used the phrase "So Mormon they could land a role in the Book of Mormon musical without a single acting lesson" before, even with Mormons. Even the Mormons admit there are some people in our ward/stake who fit that perfectly and laugh when I point it out.

CA girl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe you have to get so mad about their mall or
> their stance on gay marriage. Or maybe you have
> to realize the eternal family they promise isn't
> materializing. Or something.

That's an excellent point. Working for the Church and realizing that it was nothing more than a bullying corporation made me mad enough to look at whether or not it actually made me happy. When I realized the opposite was true and that it was actually bad for my happiness, I walked away.

Being so disgusted by their public stance on Prop 8 gave me the courage to say, "Okay, let's take a closer look at this thing? Is it really true?" Learning that it wasn't gave me the courage to resign.

Well said.

I think there is another side of this coin that you are implying. It can either be a break or being super uncomfortable - a crisis if you will. I think it is possible for something to be so uncomfortable emotionally that you reconsider.

I suspect this is why there is some truth to the TBM belief that primarily the "sinners" or the "misfits" are the most likely to leave the church. These are the people with enough emotional discomfort to be able to overcome the attack on identity (since the church is already telling them they are going to hell, etc. it's easier to reconsider.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 02:11PM by bc.

I think you are right about that emotional trigger to shake things up.

That what it was for me. I was 40+ BIC completely faithful even despite the things I knew about the good, bad and ugly of churhc history and the mistakes of people.

My emotional trigger was when my sp and bp wrongfully accused me of adultery and violating my temple covenants and without any discussion deactivated my temple recomend. i had an active recomend for over 23 yrs. i had done wellover 800 endowmwnts in that time the temple was everything to me. Then even when they discovered they were wrong they still would not reactivate my recommend because i had disagreed with them and would not let them save face and sustain them. they would not apologize for their mistake.

i suppose i am grateful to them for helping to set me free.

bc, it's honest and insightful posts like these that keep me coming here to this board. Thank you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 06:00PM by happyexmormon.

Thank you all for sharing your insights, it's always such a great feeling to read your own feelings, written by someone else.

I think that the phenomenon of religious brainwashing is fascinating ( as well as devastating, depressing, etc).

The Mormon church is successful in keeping people in because of many reasons mentioned here. I would like to explore and write about for what many of us is the largest hurdle in leaving.

You can choose not to practice and stay. You can realize its all a sham and stay, you can read real history and stay...why?

The Mormon church cuts you off your ability to reason logically. Let me explain. They teach you that facts are bad, this is not only system wide confirmation bias but it also leaves you unprepared to logically walk out the door. You don't just doubt the church, you doubt what you felt, what you knew to be factual. They also teach that facts are great and the only way to find truth and happiness.

Because Mormonism is filled with doctrinal and factual contradictions, you cannot logically filter what is true within the religion. You can alway find a quote that proves a point or the exact opposite. Because the religions was developed to adapt, you can go crazy trying to make sense of it. There is no master plan, they make it up as they go along, so don't try to find a big rift, a big conspiracy,it's Just an improvised play that we agreed to parcitipate in, only we did not know it was a play.

Separating the gospel of Christ and the LDS church can take you years. Making the break from the organization that you held as the only authority on truth is hard. So if you find yourself trying to feel, read, reason, research, argue or pray your way out,don't. Use the most basic gift god has given you: freedom, choose to leave because it isn't for you. You don't have to prove anything to anyone, just choose. If you do this, the anger, sense of loss and confusion will be mitigated sooner, you will find yourself easier, you will be more likely to keep family bonds.