I had an interesting thought occur to me today. What if nobody is really running the Mormon Church? What if nobody is really in charge? In fact, I'll go ahead and throw the theory out there – “The Church” is only coasting along on habit and inertia.

What evidence do I offer? I'm glad you asked.

First of all, look at the recent miss-calculation on the whole prop 8 campaign. They are still facing a backlash from it, but does the church do anything? They can't, because there is too much history. If there were a real leader then things could be done.

Second, the competing theories of where the Bof M actually took place. Limited Geography? Traditional placement? The preeminent apologists for the church are all but slugging it out in a very public way and what does the church do? Nothing! It is almost like they are waiting to see who wins in the court of public opinion before they get a feaking revelation.

Third, retention rates and the obviously inflated membership stats. If somebody were really in charge why would they allow such blatant mis-information to be published. I'm thinking they are trapped by their own traditions. “The previous administration posted these fake numbers and we'll look like stooges if we correct them now, better keep inflating them.” Again, coasting and inertia rather than leadership.

I'm sure there are some sharp individuals employed in the COB. The whole correlation thing is evidence of that. Security and the hyper active legal departments are obviously run by some real go get 'em types. Likewise the business, land, media, ranch, and real estate branches of the corp are huge and obviously somebody made those investments. However, every single one of those people reports to a higher priesthood authority and as we all know the church is only a top down type of organization.

If Tommy Monson is really the sole owner of the whole enterprise then any willy nilly whim of his can undo or override any and all of the work done by the underlings. Does anybody here think old Tommy is really on top of everything that goes on church wide? Does anybody doubt that he gets heavily filtered information?

There doesn't even have to be anything sinister about it. Each flunky apparatchik does and reports what they think will please their superiors. They are all living by the “unwritten way things are done” or whatever BKKKP called it. They all pray before their meetings and claim inspiration for every decision. When the inevitable conflicts in revelation occur it gets passed up the chain of command for another round of the same BS at the next level. By the time it gets to the top the original issue is no longer recognizable and so nothing gets addressed.

Just a thought. Anybody wanna shoot holes in my theory?

Stunted

My guess, the PR firm the church owns is running things.

Hinckley was a PR man for something like 30 years. As such, he knew just how to steer a corporation through the winds of public opinion.

Without him at the helm, and with Monson as a mere placeholder the good ship polyglot is tossed to and fro on every wind. As a mere place holder, I do not think that Monson has neither the slightest idea what to do, nor any real ambition.

In the days when these guys pretended to be prophets, they stood pretty much by their statements and took their lumps. But no more. Today it is all about image- weird teachings? No problem, we'll remove them from the Gospel Principles manual. Bad press? We'll change an Apostles words.

I don't think that they even care anymore as long as the tithing keeps pouring in and public opinion is favorable or at least not hostile.

And that's what happens when you have no revelation from God. You die spiritually by holding to formulas and staying stuck to the old traditions and stories of days gone by.

PR firm IMO. I had my eyes opened back in the late 90s. I was called by a member of our ward who happened to be pretty high up in the communications business (radio, TV). He asked if I would be part of an important focus group. I showed up and the organization that was running the focus group for the church was some hotshot PR firm from New York. The guy who interviewed us and asked questions wasn't even a member of TSCC. He fit the Madison Avenue advertising mold. I couldn't believe it. Nice guy, but not even a member of the only true church.

It was obvious to me that the church was not run by inspiration but was 100% run just like any large corporation that had an advertising and PR budget. These Madison Avenue types were taking all the data from our answers and reporting to SLC. I'm sure they made recommendations, etc., to the big 15. Most of the questions involved the image that Ricks College had to the members and fundraising as I recall.

I remember sitting there thinking to myself, if the prophet wants to know what to do, shouldn't he be praying about it and not sending some PR execs out to interview the members?

It was a really weird experience and just confirmed for me what I had already suspected. Marketing precedes the miracle.

From what little contact I have with insiders, I'd guess that mid-level attorneys run the business side. As far as the "religious side" is there really one left? The "leaders" just grind out the same old crap Conference after Conference.

just keeps doing it. The agenda becomes to keep the organization afloat, not to make progress of any kind.

They make series of poor judgments, make decisions that cause bad PR, and are generally placing the whole church in peril and making it downright sucky. It would often seem like the leaders are out to lunch or have shit for brains--I think the latter is true, personally. There's no longer anything to be proud of, so members grasp for anything to make it seem that Mormonism is somehow cool. They find a celebrity or politician who is LDS, and they suck it dry of any meaning. I think the situation is desperate and I'm embarrassed for them.

...that he spent quite a few years being very depressed!

Why should the leadership do much of anything?

From the standpoint of doctrine, membership stats, church history, etc., they've already painted themselves into ridiculously tight corners. All they can do now is support jaw-droppingly inane apologetics, maintain the party line, and keep repeating "Just believe!" From the standpoint of asset management, they have professionals who assuredly don't want to depend on revelation to make their decisions.

It seems like more and more, the old mantra of "pay, pray, and obey" is the only message coming from Salt Lake. And "pray" is becoming more negotiable.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2010 08:37PM by oddcouplet.

I agree with the "run like a business" assessment. I also believe that they church is beginning to try and weasel it's way out the membership numbers corner. There have been more "we are small but shall prevail" talks in conference. Given a few more years and a more general acceptance of a world view where only "true" believers remain in the church and fence sitters have gone, dwindling membership #'s will be palatable, possibly even sought after.

I make a point of telling my daughters that a church (particularly this one) is not the same as the gospel.

I've often thought that the same line of reasoning (it seems that nobody's running it - it just runs itself) applies to God and the Universe. I don't see any evidence that anybody is in charge - the Universe seems to run itself, for both good and ill.

No because Monson is a braindead lurch like mutant, with really greasy waxy skin....

The church is nothing more than a huge corporation; everyone who really looks can see it, because it is always about the money. A recent ensign said that the temples are NOT busy enough and everyone needs to get a recommend and go and that a very good place to start working toward that recommend is by paying your tithing. Col. Moroni read it to me over the phone when he was at his daughter's house tending her kids. It was just unreal, and yet I see it over and over and over. It can always be trace back to the money, every single time.

Why do they keep building temples if things are as bleak as suspected? The Gilbert temple just broke ground here. They have one right in Mesa. One for Gilbert is not very necessary.

Hinckley was into mainstreaming and pr. He set up relationships with political organizations and other religions who used to ostracize the church. That pretty much stopped...even if he was levered into those political camps by threats from other churches. (That is, in fact, what happened).

So, he was actually doing something.

Monson's version of running the church is all about cutting expenses and staff. He doesn't know how to do it, so he is ok'ing the plans that others present him. He is following Hinckster's lead on political issues, but isn't thinking about those himself.

Hinckley was the one running the Church back into the Kimball days when he was called as a 3rd counselor because the rest of the first presidency was too ill. I think Monson may have been his little helper for awhile. It was Hinckley and Monson who got power of attorney from Benson. Monson is probably just coasting from the Hinckley days, but doesn't have the finesse that Hinckley had. I don't think Hinckley would have gotten so involved in the Prop 8 fiasco. Also, Hinckley clearly wasn't looking out for leaders of the Church to come after him judging from the way he blew money on temples.

Monson is behaving like a corporate leader who is out of his depth but following after a stronger leader. So, he coasts along and cuts costs where he can to keep the old programs running. But he doesn't really know what he's doing, and he probably wishes he could just retire and move to Florida.

From an outsider's perspective, I'd say that the business arms of the church are running at least parts of the church as a whole.

They can be pretty bastardish. Screwed my company out of a few million dollars worth of business back in the day.

I thought there EA was a group of big shot biz men that ran the show in the end?

if not what is Ensign Advisors relation to the church?