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Posted by: guynoirprivateeye ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 03:00PM

(for purposes here, in < 5 minutes):

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 03:04PM

I would recommend that they read MormonThink from beginning to end before they make any commitments.

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Posted by: peglet ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 04:41PM


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Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 03:08PM

Suggest that your friend take half an hour and read "the other side of the story," and "check out the man behind the curtain (the Wizard)" at http://packham.n4m.org/tract.htm OR http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

I had that very same e-mail yesterday from a man in Germany. He had taken the first discussion, but was "skeptical" and saw my story on the German exmormon list ( mormonentum.de ).

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 03:49PM

I would give them Packham's link above followed up with www.mormonthink.com

If it was a book it would be either Mormonism-Shadow or Reality or The Changing World of Mormonism by Jerald & Sandra Tanner. These would definitely put an end to the "investigating."

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Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 04:53PM

Ex-CultMember Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If it was a book it would be either Mormonism-Shadow or Reality or The Changing World
> of Mormonism by Jerald & Sandra Tanner. These would definitely put an end to the
> "investigating."

"Changing World" is online and can be read or browsed for free at http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changecontents.htm

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Posted by: drilldoc ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 03:16PM

the building layout, so he can now where the all the exits are.

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Posted by: Chicken'n'Backpacks ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 03:17PM

Maybe he could ask about the simple christian principle of the Golden Rule & accepting and having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, then ask if there are other required rules and regulations the mishies haven't mentioned....

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: May 17, 2012 11:46AM

I did that very thing, Chicken, and the mishies lied to me.

Just sayin'....

By the way, where's Ron these days?


Anagrammy

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Posted by: dogzilla ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 03:56PM

I'd give them copies of "No Man Knows My History" and/or "Under the Banner of Heaven. Recommend reading from multiple sources before deciding on whether this church is "true."

And then threaten to stop being friends if they decide to get baptized. (Just kidding!)

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Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 04:01PM

I would send them here for starters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ac_fLUHiBw

- It may be easier to watch a video than do a bunch of reading.

or here:
http://packham.n4m.org/tract.htm

Then mormonthink.com & 20truths.info, but that can be a bit overwhelming with so much information.

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Posted by: rutabaga ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 04:22PM

You will be given a calling/job in the church. It will require several hours a week and some Saturdays. Will your present work/family/vacation schedule accommodate that?

You and every member of your family will be expected to contribute 10% of your gross income to the church. Will your present financial profile support that?

Do you want a church that teaches the life and values of Jesus and Christianity? After the missionary lessons, you will hear very little of those teachings.

What are your thoughts on social issues, gays, blacks, pro life/pro choice? Look carefully at what the church teaches on these subjects.

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Posted by: anon for this one ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 05:09PM

It's funny that you should ask this question.

I am a closet ex-mo. I still "keep the commandments", pay tithing, and attend most of the meetings that I cannot find a reason to miss. I do this to keep peace in my family, although I have discussed with my wife that I find it hard to believe anything taught by the church beyond what I consider to be normal, ethical behavior.

It has caused a tremendous amount of stress between us. Sometimes I wonder if I should have kept my "doubts" to myself. She would have been a lot happier. She is a TBM from pioneer stock, although she is hard-pressed to be able to identify anything about the church that actually makes her happy, either. She mostly worries about not being good enough, and she is depressed most of the time about our children, most of whom stopped being active in the church as soon as they were old enough.


I have actaully been asked by friends if I thought they should take missionary discussions. I normally ask them to keep my opinion to themself, and then explain how I feel. This is a very difficult situation, because I feel like I am betraying either one person or the other.

I would say to a friend, "Knowing this in advance, who would actually choose to join this church?"

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Posted by: Bicentennial Ex ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 06:14PM

I would probably launch into a Sassy Gay Friend rant, "What, what, what are you doing?!?," and then recommend any of the good suggestions above.

One of my high school teachers lent me a copy of Fawn M. Brodie's "No Man Knows My History" and shortly thereafter I planned my exit. I eventually got my own copy and annotated it like mad.

Come to think of it I'd lend my friend my annotated copy.

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Posted by: mcarp ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 08:08PM

Web site: mormonthink.com

book: Grant Palmer's "Insider's View of Mormon Origins."

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Posted by: jbug ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 09:47PM

I would recommend this web site....


AND I would tell them to run as fast as they can!!

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Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: May 17, 2012 11:02AM

I actually would not recommend this website or at least not the forums.

These forums are great but their purpose is not to prove that the LDS church is a fraud; other resources do that much more effectively. This forum is much more useful after you've already made the decision or are pretty far down the path to suspecting it is a fraud.

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Posted by: guynoirprivateeye ( )
Date: May 17, 2012 10:59AM

(now my turn)

I would tell them of the highly scripted nature of the culture.
Once a convert passes muster, they're life is taken over by expectations of others 'for their own good'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 11:00AM by guynoirprivateeye.

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Posted by: saviorself ( )
Date: May 17, 2012 11:09AM

The Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of the Mormon Church. The BoM describes events that allegedly happened over two thousand years ago. Archaeology is a branch of science whose purpose is to study such ancient history. Encarta (online dictionary) defines it as "the scientific study of ancient cultures through the examination of their material remains such as buildings, graves, tools, and other artifacts usually dug up from the ground."

The world's foremost authority on archaeology is the Smithsonian Institution. A few years ago, some LDS believers circulated a false story claiming that the Smithsonian was using the Book of Mormon as a guide book. The Smithsonian decided to refute that misconception by publicly issuing the following statement:

STATEMENT REGARDING THE BOOK OF MORMON
1. The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon in any way as a scientific guide. Smithsonian archeologists see no direct connection between the archeology of the New World and the subject matter of the book.

2. The physical type of the American Indian is basically Mongoloid, being most closely related to that of the peoples of eastern. central, and northeastern Asia. Archeological evidence indicates that the ancestors of the present Indians came into the New World - probably over a land bridge known to have existed in the Bering Strait region during the last Ice Age - in a continuing series of small migrations beginning from about 25,000 to 30,000 years ago.

3. Present evidence indicates that the first people to reach this continent from the East were the Norsemen who briefly visited the northeastern part of North America around A.D. 1000 and then settled in Greenland. There is nothing to show that they reached Mexico or Central America.

4. One of the main lines of evidence supporting the scientific finding that contacts with Old World civilizations if indeed they occurred at all, were of very little significance for the development of American Indian civilizations, is the fact that none of the principal Old World domesticated food plants or animals (except the dog) occurred in the New World in pre-Columbian times. American Indians had no wheat, barley oats, millet, rice, cattle, pigs, chickens, horses, donkeys, camels before 1492. (Camels and horses were in the Americas, along with the bison, mammoth, and mastodon, but all these animals became extinct around 10,000 B.C. at the time when the early big game hunters spread across the Americas.)

5. Iron, steel, glass, and silk were not used in the New World before 1492 (except for occasional use of unsmelted meteoric iron). Native copper was worked in various locations in pre-Columbian times, but true metallurgy was limited to southern Mexico and the Andean region, where its occurrence in late prehistoric times involved gold, silver, copper, and their alloys, but not iron.

6. There is a possibility that the spread of cultural traits across the Pacific to Mesoamerica and the northwestern coast of South America began several hundred years before the Christian era. However, any such inter-hemispheric contacts appear to have been the results of accidental voyages originating in eastern and southern Asia. It is by no means certain that even such contacts occurred; certainly there were no contacts with the ancient Egyptians, Hebrews, or other peoples of Western Asian and the Near East.

7. No reputable Egyptologist or other specialist on Old World archeology, and no expert on New World prehistory, has discovered or confirmed any relationship between archeological remains in Mexico and archeological remains in Egypt.

8. Reports of findings of ancient Egyptian Hebrew, and other Old World writings in the New World in pre-Columbian contexts have frequently appeared in newspapers, magazines, and sensational books. None of these claims has stood up to examination by reputable scholars. No inscriptions using Old World forms of writing have been shown to have occurred in any part of the Americas before 1492 except for a few Norse rune stones which have been found in Greenland.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: May 18, 2012 01:04AM

I would attempt to talk them out of continuing..

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