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Posted by: BeenThereDunnThatExMo ( )
Date: May 15, 2012 05:07PM

On Napoleon's 1798 campaign in Egypt, the expeditionary army was accompanied by the Commission des Sciences et des Arts, a corps of 167 technical experts (savants). On July 15, 1799, as French soldiers under the command of Colonel d'Hautpoul were strengthening the defences of Fort Julien, a couple of miles north-east of the Egyptian port city of Rashid, Lieutenant Pierre-François Bouchard spotted a slab with inscriptions on one side that the soldiers had uncovered. He and d'Hautpoul saw at once that it might be important and informed general Jacques-François Menou, who happened to be at Rosetta. The find was announced to Napoleon's newly founded scientific association in Cairo, the Institut d'Égypte, in a report by Commission member Michel Ange Lancret noting that it contained three inscriptions, the first in hieroglyphs and the third in Greek, and rightly suggesting that the three inscriptions would be versions of the same text. Lancret's report, dated July 19, 1799, was read to a meeting of the Institute soon after July 25. French Lieutenant Bouchard, meanwhile, transported the stone to Cairo for examination by scholars. Napoleon himself inspected what had already begun to be called la Pierre de Rosette, the Rosetta Stone, shortly before his return to France in August 1799.

The Rosetta Stone is an ancient Egyptian granodiorite inscribed with a decree issued at Memphis in 196 BCE on behalf of King Ptolemy V. The decree appears in three scripts: the upper text is Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, the middle portion Demotic script, and the lowest Ancient Greek. Because it presents essentially the same text in all three scripts (with some minor differences between them), it provided the key to the modern understanding of Egyptian hieroglyphs.

Study of the decree was already under way as the first full translation of the Greek text appeared in 1803. It was 20 years, however, before the decipherment of the Egyptian texts was announced by Jean-François Champollion in Paris in 1822; it took longer still before scholars were able to read other Ancient Egyptian inscriptions and literature confidently. Major advances in the decoding were: recognition that the stone offered three versions of the same text (1799); that the demotic text used phonetic characters to spell foreign names (1802); that the hieroglyphic text did so as well, and had pervasive similarities to the demotic (Thomas Young, 1814); and that, in addition to being used for foreign names, phonetic characters were also used to spell native Egyptian words (Champollion, 1822–1824).

Without access to the INTERNET Joseph Smith had no idea that the Rosetta Stone had even been discovered, let alone deciphered, as he was concocting his fraudulent "translation" of the Egyptian Funerary Scrolls that he purchased from Michael H. Chandler in July 1835 and created the so-called "The Book Of Abraham".

The discovery of the Rosetta Stone in and of itself drives a stake through the heart of the grand notion that Joseph Smith could effectively "tanslate" anything at all.

Even if Joseph Smith had been able to get his hands on a Bazooka Bubble-Gum Magic Decoder Ring at the time...The Book of Mormon, The Book of Abraham and everything that came after that was coughed up by Joseph Smith was already "dead-in-the-water" by that time.

Or so it seems to me...

(all of the above Rosetta Stone info courtesy of Wikipedia)

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: May 15, 2012 10:42PM

The current defense that "the papyrus was a catalyst for inspiration" has the problem that it directly contradicts Joseph Smith. He said that the papyri contained the "writings of Abraham and Joseph." He got people to pay $2400 to secure these priceless treasures. He told people they were written by Abraham and Joseph--that they contained the very handwriting of Abraham. He worked out an "alphabet and grammar" of the Egyptian language to allow him to TRANSLATE the papyrus.

So if you want to be like the mopologists and claim that the papyri were just an "inspiration" to JS to inquire of God concerning Abraham etc. then your most ardent critic will be Joseph Smith himself.

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: May 15, 2012 10:54PM

There are two "urban legends" concerning the Rosetta Stone that you will find often in popular books on Egypt and Heiroglyphs

1. Champollion found the name "Cleopatra" on the Rosetta Stone. This is false. The Rosetta Stone dates from over a century before Cleopatra.

2. There are three different languages on the Rosetta Stone. This is also false. There are TWO languages but THREE scripts. The same text is in Greek (since the pharaoh, Ptolemy, did not speak Egyptian) Egyptian hieroglyphs (the language of monuments but hadn't been used by the common people for centuries) and demotic--the script used by the common people. The demotic and hieroglyphic scripts were two different ways of writing the same language.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: July 31, 2018 08:06PM

Ptolemy the V was married to Cleopatra the first.

The famous Cleopatra of Julius Caesar fame was Cleopatra the 7th.

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 05:57AM

You forgot that, according to the book of Abraham, the sun receives its light from kolob. This energy directly infiltrated Joseph Smith's brain and is the source of his ” knowledge”.

(The point really being, if Smith got his revelation from god directly, why did he f#ck up astronomy principles so badly? )

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Posted by: amos2 ( )
Date: May 15, 2012 05:53PM

The most audacious apology I've seen is that God made Joseph Smith THINK he was translating when he was really just revelating (God really jerked Smith around...fooled him about his own translations, threatened him with a flaming sword to practice polygamy...)

So, my backup is that the CONTENT of the BoA is BS. It imports the biblical flood wholesale, and adds the doubly bogus story that the curse of Cain (black skin) was brought through the flood by the wife of Ham, and that so-cursed peoples repopulated Africa after the flood (by saying that a so-called "Egyptus" discovered Egypt while it was still underwater).

Well I confidently know that exactly the reverse occured. There never was a flood or any other extinction of all but 8 humans. Human migrations out of Africa can be traced around the globe, and a continuous occupation of Africa by humans is apparent since humans evolved there in the past millions of years.

And, Abraham was a misogynist prick with favorite wives and a favorite son by this wife who trumped his other kids by some other whozit...who he is fabled to have nearly sacrificed as the story goes...Abrahams god was immoral.

I was fearful all my TBM years because I was taught opnce that everyone will have an Abraham-like sacrifice to make. Bull sh1t.

I don't believe in the CONTENT of the BoA...so I don't care if it was translated, because even if it WAS the real writings of Abraham and Smith really could translate egyptian and it was corroborated by egyptologists...ABRAHAM was full of sh1t!

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Posted by: lilygeorge ( )
Date: May 15, 2012 10:58PM

The fates or God or whoever sure have a sense of humor. Note that the actual deciphering of the Egyptian texts began just a couple of years after Joseph's "first vision". Truth is more fun than fiction - just like the REAL story of Mormonism is more entertaining than the made-up one.

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Posted by: I believed this once, years ago.. ( )
Date: May 16, 2012 08:40AM

When I was very young I thought the Book of Abraham and Egyptian figures made "our church" the coolest. The side effect of that is that I became very intrested in all things Egyptian - and when I eventually came across the CORRECT and COMPLETE facsimile and saw what a crude and ignorant job JS did in "restoring" it I had quite a laugh.

JS gambled on Egyptian hieroglyphs being mysterious symbols that he could just make up meanings for.

Today, anyone who has a spark of interest in the Rosetta stone or Egypt can easily see what a fraud he was.

lilygeorge is right - the REAL story of Mormonism, as crazy and twisted as it is, is far more entertaining that the white-washed version I was taught.

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Posted by: BeenThereDunnThatExMo ( )
Date: July 03, 2014 04:59PM


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Posted by: axeldc ( )
Date: July 03, 2014 05:10PM

If only JS were a prophet so he could have predicted this.

Reformed Egyptian? The only people who believe it even existed as a language are Mormons who cannot read Egyptian or any Semitic languages.

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Posted by: BeenThereDunnThatExMo ( )
Date: July 31, 2018 02:56PM

An oldie but a goodie and ongoing proof in reminding One-&-All that Joseph Smith couldn't "translate" his arse out of a hat!!!

Or so it seems to me...

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: July 31, 2018 07:54PM

Sorry. This more of a loose screw than a nail in the coffin.

One hundred years ago the Smithsonian and the New York Times published the translation of the book of Abraham papyrus along with the opinions of 20 egpytologists.

No dent in Mormonism was made. Today that same info and more is available. Mormonism still flourishes.

I don't think most mormons really care.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 31, 2018 10:11PM

I'm curious how you were able to fit so many words into the title line ... How did you do it?

:O

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: July 31, 2018 10:14PM

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm curious how you were able to fit so many words
> into the title line ... How did you do it?
>
> :O


Notice the date of the original OP? 2012. That was before the title lines were restricted.

I'm curious how they got the page to come up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2018 10:14PM by SusieQ#1.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: August 01, 2018 12:44AM

Thanks SuzieQ.

That is the longest thread title to date that I've seen on RfM.

Vewy intewesting. :0

Looks like Opie revived his own older thread from the archives. There isn't a restriction for those unless they've been closed. Or if admin decides to close an old thread that's been revived.

It's a meritorious thread, so hope it stays.

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