This is a subject running through my mind a fair amount since the conflicts on the board are occurring, and may have been occurring long before I arrived. From the sounds of it they have been occurring for some time with various people exploring different kinds of options in their healing and recovery journeys.

For me recovery from Mormonism early on meant just running away from it. It meant partying, staying out late, living something of a wild life.

Then I had to recover from my recovery. I started meditating and seeing certain counselors, alternative healers, and others. I worked through a lot of what was driving my self destructive behaviors and desires.

I returned to be around Mormons, I found that there were elements that felt like they were familiar and comfortable, but other elements that felt deeply oppressive. I appreciated being around siblings and family (I had not had a family of my own, I had been busy partying and had not created roots for myself in the way I longed for. I had been living mainly around youth and young middle aged single people).

But for me a lot of my anger and pain related to (and continues to relate to) ways I was treated by my community growing up and ways I was told to believe one thing or other and not given options.

What does it mean to recover? Has one recovered when they have no contact with any Mormons? Has one recovered when they no longer believe in any form of theology? Is recovery endlessly berating every possible Mormon meme? Or is that just part of the collective process?

Is recovery when I can no longer feel hurt at what I went through as a Mormon? Is recovery when I don't feel a need to fight with every Mormon thought that someone says to me? Or almost choke on my tongue as I don't fight it?

What does recovery mean to you? What does the process mean to you? What does the destination look like to you?

For me:

1) Figuring out how to continue to deal with the relationships with people in my life that are TBM. How to best move forward with life and relationships now that that unavoidable tension is there.

2) Figuring out what my values, beliefs, ethics, meaning, approach, etc. is now that they are no longer defined for me.

3) Deprogramming myself from destructive and/or bigoted ways of thinking and acting.

4) Overcoming the sense of isolation.

5) Experiencing certain level of mourning for a lost part of me that wasn't based on reality.

This sums up my recovery quite well too.

Re: 2) Figuring out what my values, beliefs, ethics, meaning, approach, etc. is now that they are no longer defined for me.

3) Deprogramming myself from destructive and/or bigoted ways of thinking and acting.

4) Overcoming the sense of isolation.

Do you have suggestions about how you achieved these things? Because I was doing just fine until I returned to Utah and had to face the mormons everyday. There is just an attitude here that I have a real problem with. Suggestions?

Hi Deidre,

I'm still a work in progress on these - these are what I am trying to do, not what I've already done. FYI
- I live in Utah Valley so I am surrounded by Mormons
- My entire family on both sides are TBM
- Most of my friends are TBM

So I am dealing with some of the same issues. I am getting better at not being as annoyed with their expressions of belief. I try to see it less as them trying to talk me into it and more then expressing themselves in the only way they know how.

One of the core things I think recovery may mean to me is just letting go of my pain around a particular brother of mine, and making further transitions away from the family when he is around.

His sentiments are pretty brutal when it comes to ExMormonism, politics and other things. A lot of my anger stems from that, at least consciously. To me he represents just about everything I hate about Mormonism, and then put it on steroids.

He is an engineer and he thinks like one. I guess perhaps not ironically pepole are critical because of my own thought processes and trying to sort things out in a way that can make sense for me personally. Much of that may come from his rather brutal interactions with me. I feel like I am on trial a lot with him for what I believe.

I think being back around Mormonism has somewhat forced me to think about so much as far as what I believe. Living outside of the whole Mormon community allowed me to not have to think about religion or values much at all at least not consciously other than health and environment stuff.

Suddenly I have people asking me probing questions I don't even relate to, identify with, etc... So then I have to come up with answers routinely, or put uncomfortable walls up which can make me feel more lonely and separate.

I think for me recovery is about both coming to peace with some of the conflicts if not most of them and finding a place somehow in life and positioning myself so that I am less on trial.

Because of aging family members and desires to support I don't just attempt to move on at this point, but that may be another point of 'recovery' for me to work through and accept. My family has their issues, but have done a lot for me and I want to be able to be there for them when they need it. So I struggle with the boundaries and where, when and how close to let people in.

I can't imagine being married to a Mormon or having my kids going to church, I would probably need to find entirely new ways of adapting. As it stands, with Mormon neighbors and family it is complex enough.

To me, a nevermo, you are "recovered" when you can say or do something without even thinking whether the Church would approve. When, if asked whether you are a member you can just say "no" without explanation.

Realizing the people are no darn good.

You know you are really out when you've made peace with all of it.

The emotional attachment has been replaced with love of all of life.

The following is how I made peace with it.

The short version. (Can interchange "you" with "I" if that makes more sense.)

You know you are really out when.....
there are no more resentments, anger, regrets, or self recrimination, explosive responses, name calling, etc.

You know you are really out when....
you can live with and love Mormons and accept them like anyone else.

You know you are really out when.....
you are kind to the missionaries and other members, and maintain a rational relationship and friendship like everyone else.


You know you are really out when...
you understand that Mormonism is a religion like thousands of others and it's OK to change your mind, leave it, and know you are OK and were OK all along.

You know you are really out when .....
you respect all people's rights to choose their own religion (or none) as a valid choice and honor that right.

You know you are really out when....
you love your friends and family regardless of their religious choices.

You know you are really out when...
you own your own power, set healthy boundaries when necessary, and take charge of your own life, living it today, not for some reward after death.

You know you are really out when...
you choose your friends regardless of their religious choices.

You know you are really out when....
you can go to a church building, read their scriptures, articles, etc, attend functions associate with Mormons and remain respectful.

I didn't start out with those goals, but they evolved naturally during my process.

I will always live with and love Mormons. Every person teaches me something, and most often, enriches my life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2012 11:24PM by SusieQ#1.

I lived happily away from Salt Lake for 30+ years and enjoyed the freedom of not having religion be part of every single social exchange. My friendships and work relationships were based on honest exchanges and real skills, not "who-you-know-at-church" work roles. When I returned to Salt Lake the implied and subliminal communication returned. It is exasperating to have conversations revolve around church jobs ...what they did with the elders over the weekend...scouting trips...young women outings, etc. It is overwhelming. The only way I have figured out how to manage it is to isolate myself from it. There is so much implied superiority and judgement coming from the mormons it amazes me. They brag about something they did at the ward and expect a high five at every meeting. It never dawns on them that there are people that aren't mormons. So HOW does recovery happen within the confines of Salt Lake?

the process of un-fucking your brain

Diedre...

You are like a kindred soul just from a couple of your posts. I relate, I relate. SLC can be far easier it seems to me than so many other places in the Zion Belt.

In SLC (I don't live there, but have spent time there), there are places for community a fair amount around. Depends on how old you are and what you are looking for. Plenty of parties and social gatherings around though. Plenty of alternative health and yoga studios which can be meccas for the nonLDS. Obviously not everyone's thing.

Crone's Hollow is a pagan place I have been to a couple times, and I like it partly just as a haven for folks that are quirky and creative. I like the arty types. Dancing crane has a nice community (again if you are into that thing). They have a nice international crowd.

The publication City Weekly has plenty of activities listed as does the publication for alternative living. I forget the name... Oh... The Catalyst. That has various activities that may appeal if more into the Eco friendly and/or New Agey or just creative living thing. City Weekly would be more the community party scene and/or outdoor festivals.

Unitarian Universalists are basically community without much religion and plenty of politics. They have a place downtown and another one or two throughout the valley. They have the artist things downtown monthly where they serve wine and cheese. They have the SLC Burning man community. Oh, and the Mormon Stories conference, the ExMo conference, etc...

Sorry about your work and boss stuff. There are other companies in SLC which can be far less Mormon. It can depend on the field and the company. I haven't worked up there in years. But friends do. Often though there are half Mo and half Non-Mo and people will sorta group with whichever they are for social things. Definitely still in relationship to it all clearly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 02:31AM by wonderer.

You only get one shot at progressing from infant to adult. Suppose someone derailed you and messed you up? They might do so by lying to you or cheating you out of family assets. They could justify their actions by invoking powerful spirits and gods.

How do you move forward from calling your parents liars?

You denounce their system.

And let me add that once you denounce your parents's system its best not to sponge off them.

Again, I don't think anyone fully recovers from being in a cult. I think folks heal. As far as that goes, I'm done and have been for quite some time.

To heal, however, requires complete detachment from the cult and its adherents. I can't help but pity the "I love mormons and so can you!" crowd who claim to be fully recovered yet take great offense when anyone says anything negative about the cult. That's not recovery. That's not healing. That's not making peace with it. That's not taking your power back. That's attachment.

You can't heal from burns by removing yourself from 9/10ths of the fire. You have to get completely out of the fire. Only then can you begin to heal.

Timothy

Back at ya, Tim. My brother and I are the only ones out of seven siblings to resign from Mormonism. We are the only two who don't beg for money, nor take any, from our father. Every other sibling is dependent, though we range in age from 37 to 58!

Same with me and my brother except that neither of us has formally resigned and are only recognized by TBM family when they "need something" which is usually of the monetary variety.

We're all FITTY plus which makes it all the more sad.

Timothy

I defined recovery by realizing that I just wasn't as angry anymore. The thought of stepping inside a church (any church) no longer fills me with white-hot livid rage. I also stopped the self-destructive behavior and found ways to channel the stronger emotions productively. My actions were no longer driven by a deep-seated need to rebel and prove the doctrine wrong. My actions are now just my actions. Sometimes I still feel anger about the choices of certain individuals, but that is anger directed toward a single person, not toward the church as an institution. I now sort of feel sorry for the mormons I know because they live in a box with no windows. Sad.

How I knew I was recovered was when I realized I hadn't given mormonism much thought at all in several years. Pretty much reading and posting on the exmo/postmo sites are the only times I ever acknowledge or address my mormon background. I don't associate with any mormons and I rarely talk about it amongst my nevermo friends. In fact, they tend to bring it up more than I do -- I never bring it up when meeting new people. I don't want to be defined by that. I let people know it's not a big, dark secret and I'm willing to talk about my experiences and even answer questions, no big deal. But I'm not usually the one to bring it up and I tend to handle the issue quickly and change the subject to more interesting topics.

There comes a certain point in time when you don't even need the support from the recovery sites. I passed that point a long time ago and haven't really gotten too much out of any of them in a while, but people were so kind and patient with me, I feel like paying it forward. So I continue to read and post on any topic where I think I might have something useful to add, in hopes that I'm helping some lurker who is in pain and maybe my words will be the ones that helps that person's light bulb go off and their recovery journey begins.

Dogzilla - FYI a number of your posts and thoughts have been helpful for me.

One interesting point is that of the many paths of recovery one major divergence I see are those who get to leave it all behind and those who have to figure out how to deal with being surrounded by TBMs.

I define my recovery as being able to go for days, then weeks, then months, and then years without thinking about the Mormon church. In other words, it simply disappears from my world view. That is quite easy for me, since I live in Maryland. In twelve years here I have only encountered two Mormons. My only Mormon relatives are in Utah, and we mutually shun each other.

At the present time, the only thing I need to do to stop thinking about Mormonism is to stop visiting RFM.

Hmmmm, now there's a thought!

I propose a toast to us for fleeing the tyranny of mind control and lies!

Dogzilla, I have liked some of your posts too. Nice to have you in the community.

SaviorSelf... I wish I didn't have to think about Mormonism and years ago I did not when I lived outside of a Mormon community. Now I can hardly get away from it even when I am trying. It can be maddening. I am thinking about leaving, but with some aging parents and grandparents, I am inclined to try to stay around and support. I do have others in the family who can help. It may come down to 'saving myself' or 'saviorself' :)

Timothy... I cut myself off from family and at least for me that didn't feel like healing ultimately. It just felt like another kind of burn. So I have tried the middle way, but not sure it is working too well. So I may do more and more of trying the 'chosen family' way and see how that goes.

Recovery for me is returning to the kind of open-minded, self-forgiving, humble, and creative person I used to be before moving to Utah. It's going for days without even thinking about Mormonism. It's remembering the abuse and bullying I've gotten over the past few years by the Mormons without feeling rage or shame.

It's looking at Mormon people as just people--very unhappy and narcissistic people at that--but still just people, and without attacking back at them with my own prejudice and hatred.

I knew I was starting the recovery process from all of this when a few weeks ago I came to this realization that despite all their best efforts to edify themselves, there is nothing special about Mormon people. They're as imperfect and fragile as the rest of us. There is also nothing special about Mormonism. To me it is just another religion out there amongst hundreds of them.

Recovery from Mormonism is when the word itself has no effect on you anymore. It's just a word.

A wonderful thing.