In a separate post, I shared that I am considering divorcing my wife of 15 years (i) because she won't go exmormon with me and (ii) because I don't want to muddle through a loveless for-the-kids-marriage for 10 more years and miss out on a love-filled relationship going forward.

The vast majority of responses in those other posts suggest that I'm wildly selfish in considering walking away in pursuit of a genuine non-LDS relationship. Everyone's insights have been invaluable and I'm indebted to this forum and fellow posters for this kind of pointed, direct feedback.

I was naive about Joseph Smith, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and other matters in my life. Am I naive about love? Does love truly exist between two people or is it all just hormones and marriage contracts? I'm frankly bitter about my situtation regarding the church and my marriage, so I'm looking for some real-world outside advice. Is it possible to find love after divorce or does it all devolve into discussions around joint custody, stepkids, child support payments, alimonies, my baggage, the new lady's baggage, etc. Does anyone believe in (and experience) true love after divorce?

Well..I understand where you are coming from. I was married at 21, just a few months after my mission. I went to a TSCC singles event and I married the first pretty girl I saw. She was 19. I was very attracted to her. I was satisfied during the entire marrage. We were both TBM. She had a problem though in that she was a flirt. When we were at YBU together, she flirted with other guys in her classrooms. I'd catch her. She continued to flirt with other guys in various wards during the entire marrage. She finally cheated on me with a guy she met in a classroom setting. So basically, as TBM's I was satisfied and she was not. Here I was 17 years, 4 kids, a house, a career, and like you, a decision to make. The marriage, for me anyway, became a loveless marrage after her affair. I gave her another chance and I hung in there for four more years, but she failed to be faithful again.

I will say, "YES" to your last question. I remarried a younger woman (9 years my younger). She is committed. There is a level of intimacy that I did not enjoy with my first wife. I look forward every night to seeing her, snuggling on the couch, spooning, etc. It has been two years into this marriage now, and my wife is fully committed to me. It really makes it possible to comprimise and work out things, when both are committed to the marriage. If a spouse has one foot out and one foot in - it's impossible to improve the marriage.

However, I will also say that if there is anything you can do to avoid divorce, I would avoid it for the sake of the children (i.e. I would exhaust counseling to see if you can find a middle ground). In my case, there was constant disloyalty. You've got to have committment in the marriage as I said. If she is still committed to you, you could find a middle ground. Sounds like you have one foot out though my friend..am I right?

No question, Anotherguy, that I've had one foot in and one foot out for awhile. We've seen things very differently on many topics for a long time. The church/exmormon thing becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Thanks for your insights. Happy you re-found love. Sorry you had to go through what you did with your first wife. Sounds like you're an upright guy with a less than steller ex-wife. Thanks again.

How do you define love?

Biologically there is around a 1-3 year period when you "fall in love" that you are in an amorous state. Your brain produces all kinds of different chemicals during that time. After that time you go back to being normal. (Have you noticed most engaged couples drive everyone around them nuts.)

From an evolutionary/biology standpoint this makes a lot of sense. You need to have a period where you don't want to do anything but make babies. However once you've got a couple babies are around you need to get back to taking care of them.

If that is what you are after - that exciting "in love" thing then you need to plan to have a bunch of short-term relationships that last a couple of years.

For me that love turns into a different kind of love. Companionship. Building a life and home together. A deep friendship and intimacy. Sacrificing for each other. Having one another's back. Having some romance and attraction in there. Sometimes having a "crush" on each other but not expecting that feeling to be there all the time.

I pushed as hard as anyone for you to stay married. However, if you are so easily able to leave your marriage over something seemingly so small maybe it is indicative that a deeper love has never developed between you and your wife? A Mormon belief system may have some challenges for that, but it definitely doesn't prevent it from happening. Why can't you find love with your wife? You said you have a pretty good marriage, but now you say you have a loveless marriage. Which one is it? A 15 year marriage suddenly turning loveless because you disagree on religion doesn't make any sense - many many loving marriages are between two people with very different beliefs. So yeah, if the problem is the two of you don't love each other something needs to change.

The grass is greener is always an easy fantasy, but sometimes the answer is to water the lawn. No matter who you go off to find love with you are going to hit something that you adamantly disagree on. The idea that you can't have love because you don't agree - even on something major is where I think you are off base. If my wife and I agreed on everything that would be really boring.

bc, superb insights, and I've read and re-read every word of this post and your priors. Thanks for the candid remarks. I define love as an uncontrollable feeling that makes you want to do anything for your partner. I've felt it a handful of times and not just in the amorous state as you aptly point out. I don't feel that here, never have, pretty confident that I never will.

I'm not trying to be an a-hole, not trying to throw away a decent thing. It's just not what I think I should be experiencing. It's not even a misguided expectation thing. Something's missing in this relationship. I'm willing to admit that it's me, but I've done a whole lot of soul-searching and the conclusion I come to is a lack of compatibility.

My marriage came together because of the church. That foundation is gone. I think it's a valid question about whether to continue. If the illusion of love is just as much BS as the story of Joseph Smith, then I get it. I'll stick around and muddle through this. But if there's true love out there, I want to go grab it before I get cancer and die.

Not trying to be flippant in saying my marriage has gone from "decent" to "loveless", just trying to condense it into a posting here. We were in love because the spirituality and eternalness supported it. Now, that's BS and so is the love thing. Now it's just a contract, either I stick around or i bolt and pay $X as mandated by state law.

bc, again, I appreciate your posts. Thanks.

Where you got your answers from is that in our original post you make it sound like you have a good marriage and that the only reason you can't love your spouse is that you don't agree on religion.

As you have clarified the picture I am getting is:
- You've never had a great marriage. You don't get in major fights or have abuse or anything horrible, but you are kind of in one of those parallel life marriages.

- You never really were that crazy about each other. You just sort of settled because you felt like you were overdue to get married.

- One of the main reasons you felt compelled to stay in the marriage that you weren't that excited about is the foundation of the church.

If that is accurate, that is very different than the picture you initially painted. Of course, we are all commenting on a very narrow picture of what your life is - I find it helpful to get other perspectives online to help me think through things but I know I am the only one who knows the whole story.

Based on that picture I think I agree with you that I would seriously consider leaving the marriage.

However, the kids would be a major consideration. And it goes beyond the they are going to be miserable if I am miserable thing. There are drains on financial resources. There is depression from separation that your wife, children, and you will all deal with. There is the risk your wife goes crazy with you gone and does who knows what to emotionally or otherwise damage the kids. There is the risk you new wife treats your kids like dirt. There is the risk your wife's new husband treats your kids like dirt. There is the risk your kids blame themselves for the separation. There are major risks and impacts to your kids that would be greatly reduced by waiting a few years.

My opinion: Quit doing the one foot in / one foot out thing. IMO, you should try putting both feet completely in for a period of time and do everything you can to make it work. However, if you aren't interested in that then yeah, get both feet out. Forget about if your wife is putting both of her feet in and put both of yours in all the way and see if you can kindle love - 5 love languages is a model, light her fire is a model - there are many others.

I don't completely agree with the LDS idea that any two righteous people can make a marriage work. However, it sounds like the two of you are compatible enough that there is a chance you can spark something and make it work. I do believe that most of making a marriage work is putting the work in.

Also where you feel like you have never been in love, I would maybe look introspectively. Is there something within you that is stopping that? Are you going to bring that same problem to the next relationship and not find love their either? Is it worth considering talking to a therapist to see if this at least part of what is going on?

Like I said above, before you go looking for greener grass make sure you are watering the lawn.

Have you seen Shenandoah? I don't love the movie but I love the scene where the soldier asks Jimmy Stewart to marry his daughter:
Charlie Anderson: Do you like her?

Lt. Sam: Well, I just said I...

Charlie Anderson: No, no. You just said you loved her. There's some difference between lovin' and likin'. When I married Jennie's mother, I-I didn't love her - I liked her... I liked her a lot. I liked Martha for at least three years after we were married and then one day it just dawned on me I loved her. I still do... still do. You see, Sam, when you love a woman without likin' her, the night can be long and cold, and contempt comes up with the sun.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2012 02:23PM by bc.

bc, I think you've nailed it. No, no abuse nor major fights. Pretty much just settled to be an obedient member.

I agree with you that counseling for myself might be the best approach ... someone who can help me sort myself out in the church disaffection and marriage matters, specifically relationship issues. We've gone through marriage counseling, which has helped prolong our relationship, but the core issues I'd argue aren't fixable. Yes, I can jump in with both feet. Probably the best for all.

More details here: we separated for a 6-month period some years ago. Flatly, I never felt more liberated. However, I felt so incredibly selfish and guilty for making a faithful daughter of god and two gorgeous little boys confused and upset that I came back. So here I am two years later, still stuck in an untenable situation. Just looking for some opinions.

Similar to your opinion, I've had others say that the grass might be greener, but you probably can't afford the water bill...

You're a wise old soul, bc. Heartfelt thank you.

Every heart is a deep ocean and there is always much more to "the story." Your main concern has to be your own mental health in your life paradigm. Nobody lives in your head but you and it is truly difficult to explain what is essentially a feeling inside you.

As a person who has learned pretty much the hard way, I'd say the true litmus test is when you are happier alone. If you really dread the spouse coming home, if you postpone going home with errands you "must" do, if you find yourself fast-fooding it to avoid the dinner table...these are all signs which should be heeded.

I believe you can "water the grass" but that's only if there is respect and a modicum of affection. It sounds like you have this woman so tied in with Mormonism and your resentment at being duped into marrying "at the right time in the right place" rather than with the right person. If you cannot separate her from the Mormon church in your mind, then it will not work. You can't rekindle if there is no spark.

Of course, two beautiful children are a great motivation. My father stayed with my mother because he didn't want my sister and me to have a broken home. When he was in his fifties, he found real love and had a torrid affair. Even though we were grown, he found it so hard to leave my mother that he turned to drink. He was fired from his job as president of the international division of a major oil company right before he was to retire. He was accused of taking money from the company to buy the mistress fur coats, etc. My sister told me about this and I told her I could believe it. I told her it didn't matter to me if he did or didn't, that I understood why and still loved him. The fact that I had no outrage she considered disloyalty and it was one of the reasons she stopped speaking to me.

My point in sharing this (and there's more fallout that I won't bother with) is that your children will be affected negatively if you do not love their mother. They will also be affected negatively if you move away and they lose the day to day contact.

As a grown child of divorce, I wish my parents had divorced sooner in life so my father could have had some real love and happiness sooner. At least he got fifteen years in before he died.

As a divorced mother, my children have all said to me that they wish I had divorced their father years before I did. I had to point out that if that had been the case, they wouldn't have their younger sisters. LOL!

You are doing so much to help others by sharing your struggle to make this tough decision. There are many reading every word who are going through the same trial.

I am sure you will make the right decision, doubleb, and look back later saying WOW -- glad I made that choice.

Anagrammy

Love develops a different meaning after menopause and after the little factory begins to cool off a little.

My wife and I are seldom found at the heights of physical passion anymore, but we are the best of friends and depend on each other in many ways, even though she's hard-core TBM and I'm a happy old agnostic!
We've both been divorced. This is the second mariage for both of us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2012 03:27PM by rationalguy.

Love. Internal structures built up around a foucusation of sympathies.

It's possible. Just know that the divorce rates are even higher. Also, if you marry someone who wants children it can be very hard on the children you currently have.

My advice would be do all you can to keep what you have. If you can't, then be sure you go into divorce with your eyes wide open.

When you're in a second marriage, there can be a lot of resentment when most of your money, even your retirement fund, is going to your exwife. Most women aren't too thrilled about getting up and going to work to support your last family. Especially if she wants one of her own.

Just some things to think about.

But don't mistake love for lust. Both feel very good and dangerously similar.

If you do choose to walk away from your marriage, be damn sure you think it's the right thing, especially with kids involved. Then be sure to stay single for at the minimum of a year. After spending so much time with one person, people need to figure out who they really are and what they want out of the next relationship. It's easy to find the next someone with whom you have an instant and powerful attraction.

I can also somewhat empathize with your situation- I realized I never truly loved my (ex) husband and walked away a little under 2 years after we married. I did not want to spend the rest of my life thinking, "This is my LIFE?!?" And yes, I did find the love of my life and we have been together for awhile now. We have ups and downs, but are relatively happy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2012 01:51PM by Itzpapalotl.

I'm in a second marriage and am truly, deeply, madly in love with him and we're nearing the two decade mark of our relationship. And though sex is not as frequent, it's better than ever.

I am my husband's second wife and he is my first husband. I believe we are truly in love. We've been together for 9.5 years and we get along famously. We enjoy the same activities, love to travel, and are still attracted to each other.

That being said, yes there was baggage brought into our marriage. My husband's ex wife is a complete psycho bitch. She turned my husband's daughters against him and his family and that was very hurtful to both of us. On the other hand, they haven't talked to my husband in seven years and that has spared us a lot of drama and angst and having to deal with his ex wife's craziness as well as the Mormon church.

It's sad that he lost contact with his kids because he does love them, but if the ex meant to punish him by going on her alienation campaign, I think in the long run, she failed. I believe they're missing out more on a relationship with us than we are with them.

Have you read "Too good to leave, too bad to stay?" I recommend it. Wish I had read it before dating.

It gives 34 points for couples to evaluate their relationship. It also explained how a couple with nothing in common but church and kids could stay married. Also what post divorce life is really like.

Are you better off alone, for the rest of your life? If the answer is yes, I would start seriously thinking about and planning for separation and divorce (btw, it's expensive).

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2012 01:28AM by cl2.

I am on my second divorce. First time around I divorced my husband because he was heavily involved with drugs and he had become a danger to me and my children. This second one is very different. He is TBM too, but that is not what caused me to leave him. It started with his emotional abuse to me and my children from my first marriage. He was a very unhappy person which makes me believe he did not want to be with me anyway. I found out he cheated on me and was living a double life back in February and that was it for me.

Divorce is really hard. It drains you in every aspect of your life. That being said, if you feel you cannot fix what is wrong in your marriage than my advice is to leave. I know most won't agree, but I don't believe a person should stay in a marriage for the kids. She will be happier, you will be happier and the kids will adjust as long as you choose to be cooperating co-parents who do not fight in front of your kids or use your kids as weapons against each other. I grew up in a household where my parents constantly fought. We WISHED our parents would divorce so they would be happy. They did stay together and my mom is now passed away and my dad has remarried. He is the happiest I have EVER seen him. It's too bad he had to live a long life with a woman (my sweet mom) who did not make him happy and vice versa.

As for love after divorce, I'm in the same boat as you. I thought I found the man I could love forever. But I was wrong. I am pretty sure I will never marry again. I'm sure I will find someone eventually to be committed to in a loving relationship, but marriage just does not work for me. I have lost my "faith" in marriage. Some people say it is sad that has happened, because just being committed means I can always leave and that means I am taking the easy way out. Maybe that is so... but they have never walked in my shoes. I am happy with my choice to divorce and it feels like a weight is slowly being lifted off my shoulders.

Do what you feel is best for you. Your kids will grow up and they will leave you. And if all that is left is you and a woman you can't stand than you have both wasted your life. Kids are lot stronger than people give them credit for. My kids are amazing. They are strong and independent. They know who they are and what they want. Two divorces and the death of their dad has not made them weak, it has made them strong. Empower them in your moments of divorce. Let them know you love and cherish them and that the divorce is not their fault. Honor their place in this world as you honor yourself. And honor your wife as well. This will be hard on her, but she will get through it. That is my two cents for what is worth! :)

I've been reading through all these threads, wanting to say something, but not sure of what I really wanted to say that would be clear and useful.

I have expressed some of my frustrations with my TBM spouse on this board. (I am completely inactive--he is still active. I never get after him for still believing, but he gets after me for not. Common scenario.) For various reasons, I believe it likely I will walk out once my youngest is out of high school.

I've accepted he will probably never leave the LDS church--but our issues are deeper than that. I've asked him to go to counseling, but he has said every time that I'm the one with the problem, so he doesn't need to go.

It makes me sad--while I feel numb to him, I long for ONE MORE CHANCE to try rekindle what we once had--a fun, passionate, close freindship and love. At one time, he truly was my best freind in life. If only he would go to counseling with me--we might find what we lost.

If you invited your wife to counseling with you, you might find that freindship and love you think is missing. IT's worth fighting for, not only for your children's sake, but your sake and your wife's sake as well.

I wish you well.

We've gone to counseling a couple times.

I'm lukewarm on how useful it is. I think it does save marriages sometimes. It also depends a lot on how good the counselor is.

Have you read 5 love languages (or similar)? The idea of this and a lot of similar models is essentially you "love bomb" your spouse - a little different meaning than the "love bomb" we use on this board.

The idea is that by making the spouse feel completely fulfilled and loved in the relationship - by focusing on their wants and needs for a period of time that it changes the dynamic of the relationship and eventually you both end up feeling fulfilled. This only goes so far - the spouse eventually has to be willing to reciprocate and be willing to learn what to do to reciprocate if they don't know. These models seem to have two things in common: 1) You have to be willing to take the leap of faith and put yourself out there despite not feeling fulfilled in your relationship - MUCH easier said than done & 2) You have to understand the right things to do that will actually be effective to connect with your spouse.

I don't think this model works in all cases, but it seems to work in at least some.

Also, just one person going to marriage counseling can be pretty effective. You only have control over what you can change anyway. My experience with both people going to marriage counseling is that it is really easy for it to turn into a "pissing match" where all you focus on is what you want the other person to change which is pretty useless. This year my wife declined to go to marriage counseling with me so I've gone by myself and I think it's the most useful therapy for our marriage yet.

From your other posts it sounds like you are past the point of this being a consideration, but thought I'd post some of my experiences just in case they are useful.

I'm a little late to this thread, my apologies. I can only tell you of my experience. After I divorced my wife of 30 years, I didn't know what to expect from another relationship. I joined Match.com, and I had a profile there for about two years. I had a friend that "farms" match.com. He will contact about 30 different ladies on the site, he will then get about 10-15 responses. He will then call, and he keeps narrowing down the list until he has about 2-4 ladies that actually want to date him. He dates those until the "fire" burns out, usually about 6 months or so, then he contacts another 20-30, and does it all over again. One day, I asked him to look over my profile, and suggest changes, he did, and within two weeks a lady emailed me and said that she would like to chat. Long story short, we were married 7 years ago in the Little White wedding chapel's Tunnel of Love drive through in Las Vegas. It is amazing to me that people actually have trouble with dating after divorce. It went soooo smooth for me, and I have never been happier.

I've had my heart broken a few times. I'm either very unlucky or I completely suck at love.

I still believe in the idea of love but it's reality in my life is not something I'm counting on anymore.

a part of Love is learning & growing. In that sense, there should Always Be Love...

just sayin'

I, too, was hoping to post something useful for you, but I got hung up on this:
"Does love truly exist between two people or is it all just hormones and marriage contracts? "

Start with your assumption that love necessarily leads to marriage. Does it have to? If you don't want to marry someone, does that mean you don't love them? The reverse can be true; you can be married to someone you don't love. So why the mutual exclusivity? Does it have to be all one thing or the other?

Cannot you simply love whomever you love? Does it HAVE to turn to marriage? I cite CL2 as an excellent example of a person who loves two men in completely different ways. One is more like her buddy (and I'm sure she went through times in her relationship with him in which she didn't really love him, or didn't think so, or didn't feel it much) and one is her lover, yet she does not want to marry again. (Not that she's legally free to, but that's beside the point.)

Finally, what would be the point of divorcing your wife if you're not really sure that love is real and exists at all?

I got divorced from my first husband. He was immature and seemed to lack basic communication and relationship skills. I couldn't understand him at all, and he couldn't understand me - he couldn't repeat back to me the main point of something I'd said five minutes earlier. I still don't know whether to attribute that to stupidity or that he just didn't care. Either way, there was no way to make the relationship work. He was TBM and I quit the Mormon church while we were married, but that's not the reason I left him - it was more because he wasn't actually able to make a decision and stick to it, on anything. Whether that was due to his Mormon upbringing, overprotective parents, or just his passive-aggressive personality, it wasn't something that could be fixed. I definitely would have been better off single than staying married to him, even though we had a kid. If your marriage is anything like that, I'd say you should probably get divorced. Don't stay in a loveless marriage for the sake of the kids - but do try to figure out what the real problem is and see if it can be solved before you give up on the whole thing. I don't think the religious difference is the real problem, maybe just a symptom of other problems, so it really depends on what the real issues are and whether they can be worked out.
I did find love after divorce, I'm happily remarried to an amazing man, so it is possible. I don't think you should count on it, though. Don't quit your marriage unless you'd be better off single than married to her. If you know you'd be better off single and you know what a mess divorce can be, and you still think it's the best thing for you, then do it.

Totally... it is your right and also it is your decision to love someone else. For they to love you back, it is their choice too. But possible...? Totally!

I divorced many years ago and never remarried. I found out I enjoy the privicy and time to do as I want. There is a difference between being in heat and being in love. It has been lonely at times but also fun and rewarding at time. While married sex was the least of our problems. We had a great and exciting romantic relationship. It was other things and we were heading in different directions in life. Life has been good to me. Each person has to choose for themselves

I have the exact equation that perfectly defines love for each person.

Love = √(-x)
Where x is the irrational number describing the scalar size of your wish to be in love.

I obviously late to this thread, but I think I might have some insight to offer. From my experience, the answer is: Yes

I stayed in a loveless marriage for almost 14 years. She was content with the arrangement and didn't want the divorce, but I could not do it any longer. I left everything behind to follow my heart, and am so much better for it today, 4 years later. I am married to the love of my life, I experience the thrill of that true soul-mate love "feeling" on a daily basis, and my life finally feels like it is finally being lived to the measure of its creation.

I was terrified to think about the enormous pressure to conform, and worries over the backlash I knew would come, but I was more scared to see myself finally divorcing 20 years in the future once the kids were all gone. I saw her parents do it, and it was like a crystal ball into my future. I announced my intention, and 4 months later the divorce was final.

Some lessons I learned along the way which might be helpful:

1. Mormons tend to be extremely unforgiving. Leaving a marriage and the church at the same time is unconscionable to them. There is generally no forgiveness for this offense and you must be prepared to lose all of your ward family, as well as the majority of your immediate family.

2. TBM Ex-wives become even more hyper-Mormon once you've left the marriage. The adversity of the divorce is seen as the ultimate trial, and you now replace Satan as the adversary. It will be ugly and continue to be ugly so long as you continue to "sin" and she continues to grow ever more self-righteous.

3. By leaving the marriage, the fault for the "loveless state" becomes 100% yours. She is guiltless, and you are the one who chose to selfishly break sacred eternal covenants. In that context, how could any of it be her fault?

4. The divorce is far from the end. When kids are involved, you have no choice but to be "linked" to her whether you like it or not. The kids are taught that what daddy did was against the commandments. Daddy will not be able to be part of the eternal family with them and mommy.

5. Money is very tight. The law is not kind to fathers with lots of kids, and mothers who choose to earn near minimum wage. The child support calculations can be enormously unfair and unyielding. Court costs will mount and the next legal battle is always on the horizon. Punishing you will take precedence over any pursuit of her own happiness or perhaps a better paying job opportunity.

6. Stress levels will rise. All of the stunts, games, and acrimony that will define your relationship with your ex will eat away at the inner peace you will feel. She will see your happiness and will be confounded because wickedness never was happiness. Her cognitive dissonance will consume her and she will make it her mission to enforce that edict. You must be made to feel the pangs of your wickedness.

7. The divorce will definitely affect the kids, but not debilitate or ruin the kids. There will be some incredibly difficult growing pains on both sides, but they will soon lessen their focus on the way it was, and focus more on the way it is. At that point, your example is more important than ever. They can see through motives, and will begin to make their own conclusions as to why daddy left the marriage. What those conclusions ultimately are is up to you.

I didn’t mean to run on like that, but I know exactly what you are facing. My two oldest children now live with me (their own choice), in addition to my wife’s 2 kids from her first marriage. We have amazing lives together and life is always an adventure, but it is just that… LIFE! We love each other with an intensity I never knew I could feel, and each day is now welcomed as a gift I almost turned away. To experience the highest of highs, you will most likely have to reach the lowest of lows at times during the journey. The alternative is to take the safe route and stay on Mormon autopilot with minimal risk, and a familiar comfort zone. In short what you are proposing is definitely the road less travelled by, but it made all of the difference for me. I hope you find what you’re looking for.

Not divorced, but not sure about marital love, especially in rushed into mo marriages, maybe it exists, for the lucky ones who found a good match. I believe in a parent's love for their child/children, grandchildren.

Great joke in a recent magazine... Now we're living to 100. 100 years ago people were dying at 37. "Till death do us part' was a much different deal.

Another good one...involving a comic script...1st frame, shows a bride and groom at the alter and the minister is pronouncing them man and wife...2nd frame, The happily wed couple is walking down the aisle and both are beaming...3rd frame, focusing on the groom who is grinning ear to ear, and thinking to himself, "I'm married now, I can have sex anytime I want!"
...the last frame shows the bride smiling, and she's thinking to herself, "I'm married now, and I never have to have sex again!"

Is marriage the greatest scam perpetrated on mankind? 50% divorce rate, really? Why the hell do gays want to get married?

I read your original post. My feeling is that if you are that focused on the one issue, there was probably not much of a base of love to begin with.

You said that you already tried a trial separation, and that you were much happier away from her. So I think you already have your answer.

Your new area of concern (will you find love,) indicates that you are assessing the risks and rewards of leaving. Fiyero, above, (along with other posters,) is giving you a good idea of what to expect. I think that the chances are good that you could find a loving, compatible partner. But there are no guarantees.

A lot of it depends on the state of your own self esteem and good mental health. Go into a new relationship with both, take your time about it, and I would like your odds. But you would be best advised to take some time off from intimate relationships for a while if you divorce. Take some time to get your head straight and to get comfortable with your own good company.

Like a lot of things, Love to Mormons is Uber-Conditional.
As long as you play Simon Says with them, chances are you'll be O.K.
step out of line, you're TOAST.

and: Mormons seem to have a Very Narrow view of <What they Call> 'Forgiveness'. with my TBM wife, it was: 'I forgive you, but that doesn't change anything'.
IOW, it was Only for Her piece-of-mind.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2012 01:53PM by guynoirprivateeye.

I still love the true love of my life. Unfortunately she's married to someone else. When I became single she wasn't. When she was I wasn't. Me an RM met her, dated and was totally ready, but was just starting school again, and wanted to settle in. She had only a few years left of BYU, me at the U of U. I felt trapped when she said she was thinking of going on a mission, and only one thing would keep her from going. What a total dumb ass I was. Wasn't going to be pressured into marriage. But would have been the best woman for me. Dumb Dumb Dumb. I believe she is also a post mormon thinker now based on her FB comment. I'll never get her out of my mind. NO wonder I can't have a healthy relationship since then.

I'm always singing "What might have been" by Little Texas. Yes I know I'm insane.

The church was not the main reason for my divorce after 22 years, but it was a large contributing factor. I had been unhappy and lonely for many years, and had every expectation that after the divorce I would find true love and marry again. It's been ten years and I've barely dated, let alone the rest. I've had to work two and three jobs to support my kids and pay my mortgage and the other bills, so time was always an issue, but mostly I just don't meet normal guys. I don't think I'm too picky, but if I'm going to put myself out there I don't want to take just anybody for the sake of having a relationship. I'm now 58 and it's looking like I'm going to be single for the rest of my life.

I realize that a lot of people do find love after divorce, but some of us never do.

I never would have left my wife. Never. But shortly after I told her my true feelings about mormonism, she decided to leave me.

If there is a God, I thank Him for that.

I have had good days and bad days. I have had good sex and bad sex. I have had good relationships and bad relationships.

But I have no doubt that I am exactly where I belong. Had I stayed in that marriage, I am willing to wager everything that I would be miserable and small.

I have loved in ways I never knew possible.

Absolutely, love exists.

And if you are fortunate enough to connect with someone you really do love, and they love you just as much as you love them, then that love can build bigger and deeper and better for all the rest of your lives.

We're on our twenty-eighth year with each other.

And our sex life is wonderful, and continues to deepen and satisfy even more than we (looking back on our earlier relationships after we became adults) ever thought possible.

Real, true, lasting, growing love IS possible...but you've got to find the right person FOR YOU (and they have to think the same thing too)...and you've got to always keep growing together (never, ever stagnate!)...and deepening every good aspect of your relationship.

And you've got to be totally honest with each other...even when total honesty is embarrassing or difficult.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best.