The outrageously expensive money-laundering quasi-security bunker mall will fall flat on its face, no question.

The question for us in the lawn chairs is how to recognize the kickoff.

Any ideas? Anybody seeing any signs yet? How are neighboring businesses doing?

Anagrammy

How long do you think they'll be able to enforce the "dark Sunday" rule?

What is current occupancy rate?

I agree.

When the big anchor stores start hemorraging money and threaten to move out, the powers that be will allow them to do business on Sundays . . . despite their original lease agreement.

So when Gawd's Holy Mall opens on Sunday - watch out. The end is nigh.

;o)

Neighboring businesses report no uptick in business except for the three days of its grand opening.

Of course, the Condo towers have been a notoriously difficult sell with a number of price reductions since they were first offered for pre-sale.

If downtown were inhabited beyond business hours, those other businesses would probably get some benefit. That plan hasn't panned out yet.

And I've heard, but not authoritatively, that you don't buy the condos themselves. You get a 99 year lease for that price. Certainly there are reasons for that structure where you don't own the building outright and some system for upgrades and updates is necessary. But that's yet another negative in those properties as "investments".

Even though that's unconfirmed, that certainly does sound like the Mormon MO doesn't it?

That's pretty normal procedure in many places. I live in a downtown apartment building in Europe. I own five flats out of 107 (one that I live in, four to let), but the land it was built on will be returned to the city after 99 years, so then I will lose all my flats. However, suppose it was our property "in full". How many seven-story apartment buildings stay up more than 100 years?

In many cities in many countries, all land for apartments and offices is leased for 99 years.

VERY normal for UK and EU. Entailed, or leasehold vs freehold, and 99 year leases, etc.

In Hawaii, I know some places are like that as the land is in trust for the native Hawaiians, in perpetuity--or some such thing I once heard or read about.

Homes in our national parks, on Federally-owned land, yes.

NOT normal for most cities/buildings/houses, even big ones, in the average US city, even cities of size in the US. maybe in time share resorts or planned cities like Celebration, owned by Disney. Maybe for co-ops in NYC. But NYC, Salt Lake city ain't.

So I bet that's really odd, for Utah.

It seems to me that as leaseholders get close to the 99 year limit, the value of their property would diminish. I would never consider buying a home in this manner, and I don't think it would fly in Utah.

I was in downtown SLC on Saturday, and there was no place to park, so I used the City Creek parking garage. We arrived at about 9:30, and the garage was almost completely empty. I parked on the level right off the street. At noon, we came back to get the car, and the garage was still only 25% full or so, and this was a Saturday noon. Not a good sign.

But yes, I agree that the occupancy rate and the price discounts (they've already been cut by 50%) are bad signs.

Isn't that always the first sign of a failing retail space?

Occupancy, I think is referring to condo sales, not storefronts. The storefronts are all in use/development right now.

But I believe that, like the condos, they had to slash lease rates by 50% or more.

And I bet, having some considerable experience with condos and corporates, that those numbers on occupancy are being vastly under reported by the LDS church. Except on their tax returns, that is!

The TSCC fails to realize the pack mules of the church that paid the way for the Grand Mall can't afford to eat there or park there. That group is slowly dying off with age and their money. ( My parents)

My magic 8 ball say;s

"Failure is an option"

The problem is that the 'losers' will be the sales clerks etc. who have jobs there now and need them to pay their rent.

The church can sell the building at a loss and write it off or whatever; the profit won't be out on the street. It'll be the workers who are counting on a pay check that. So, now, i want it to succeed. for the sake of the regular folk.

I want it to succeed to attract even more normal, non-mormon people to Salt Lake.

Before the church were to admit failure, it would put in its own businesses and pay itself rent. Shuffle money much like the government does in its own budgets. Perception, not reality. That's what is important.

rent for retailers as they threaten to pull out. How long until they are reducing floor space to 50% then 25%?

It is not like the church can assign a ward to go shop at the mall this week. Oops...maybe I gave them an idea.

I don't think the church really cares if some of the storefronts are empty.

I've actually been considering moving into a condo at City Creek. They look amazing from the floor plans. Every single one has a deck/balcony, granite kitchens, stainless steel appliances. At some point when I go look at them in person, I'll return and report.

Are we sure it's doing so badly because a Mo-friend of mine who is irritated by my opinions re: City Creek posted the following link on FB tonight:

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/City-Creek-drawing-away-shoppers-from-other/fxHKHqMIa0CwetwEaPNWzQ.cspx

Note, it's Channel 4 - not the Mormon run KSL.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 08:58PM by CA girl.

They start making the members take turns cleaning it.

When you start to see church offices instead of retail stores.

Stores open on Sunday. It's the prime shopping time for the Park City weekend elite who fly in, then out. And that's really the target market for those stores.

I hope that the sign of its passing will be the opening of a dozen or so outdoor bars with live music and couches to hang out and drink on.

When the cult starts manufacturing customer numbers like they do with their own membership.

There is a wave of "Cash Mobs" appearing to save small businesses by each person pledging to come spend $20 minimum in cash. I hear this is very effective and a wonderful community bonding effort.

The Mormons could assess each family a minimum amount of money (per their income) that they should spend at the struggling Mall to help it "get established." Just temporary, you understand, and completely voluntary. Your Home Teachers will be bringing your pledge form at their regular monthly meeting, just to help the Church by showing your support. After all, it's money you would be spending anyway.

Yeah. At your neighbor's store at Crossroads.

Anagrammy