Recently (6 months ago) talking to my TBM brother, discussing various reasons I had for leaving the church, he told me that all of my problems are deceptions from Satan and that probably due to some unresolved sins I lost the spirit of discernment so I am no longer able to recognize truth by the spirit.

Sure I have "sins" now, except I no longer believe they are sins. Before I started thinking, and was "in" I was doing my best to be tbm, and guarantee you, I had nothing unresolved. In all honesty, part of the repentance process is what started me thinking.

So according to my brother, all of us have some unresolved sins from our past that are blocking the spirit and allowing us to be deceived. If we would all repent, the MORG could truly become what it was prophesied to be.

BS

And by universal, I don't mean every member has this attitude but rather there's at least one guy in every ward who thinks this way.

I was rised in the church. Attended every week, mission, EQP, Stake Mission presidency etc. I never once remember being taught to think this way. At least I don't recal any specific meeting or lesson where I was specifically taught to blame doubts on the individual. I was certainly exposed to this kind of statement, but were did it come from? Why does it persist with such fervent tenacity?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 02:49PM by Stunted.

I think it is their association of one thing to another
In the bom they read that you can know the truth of all things through the spirit, so if you can not know the truth of tscc then it is because you do not have the spirit and if you do not have the spirit it is because of you are not worthy and if you are not worthy it is because you have some sins you need to confess.
But it is still bs.

Stunted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was rised in the church. Attended every week,
> mission, EQP, Stake Mission presidency etc. I
> never once remember being taught to think this
> way. At least I don't recal any specific meeting
> or lesson where I was specifically taught to blame
> doubts on the individual.

I was ABSOLUTELY taught to think this way. In every single lesson I ever had in Primary, SS, YW, RS, Seminary, Institute, or FHE about "listening to the still, small voice" I was told that when we sin, it becomes harder to understand the promptings of the HG. I was taught that if we sin and do not repent, the HG leaves us ("the spirit cannot dwell in unholy temples"). These lessons ALWAYS included a warning that without the HG's presence, our hearts become hard and we would be at risk of losing our testimonies.

This is a huge part of why I stayed in TSCC for so long even when I didn't bring myself to say I believed it. I had been conditioned to think that the reason I couldn't "feel the spirit" was because it had left me for being unworthy, and therefor my doubts were my own damn fault.

This was also explicitly drilled into me as doctrine, using scrips. Were you maybe raised outside of UT?

We could all repent until the cows come home but that will not make Mormonism magically come true.

"Recently (6 months ago) talking to my TBM brother, discussing various reasons I had for leaving the church, he told me that all of my problems are deceptions from Satan and that probably due to some unresolved sins I lost the spirit of discernment so I am no longer able to recognize truth by the spirit."

Tell your brother that the "spirit" is weak then because for the spirit to leave you or just not give you the discernment you need due to sin/Satan, then how weak is that spirit? Sin/bad influences (Satan?) needs MORE help and strength from the mormon god...not less.

Many here (and you I assume), had an epiphany/spirtual awakening after learning the new/different/real truth...How strong is that and would/will that go away as easily as the mormon "spirit" does when you question things and/or struggle????

First sign of wandering from the path and, bingo, he splits rather than help you back to the straight and narrow.

How does he know the prompting of the Spirit aren't actually Satan whispering in his ear? And whatever answer he gives, then how does he know THAT isn't a deception of Satan? How does he know the GA's aren't agents of Satan? How does he know the scriptures aren't the work of Satan? The devil is very devious, you know.

Yes, they believe that, I'm sure. That is the point of religion - to resolve sin and live close to God.
Personally, I find neither of them worthwhile or valuable to me anymore.
I prefer to ignore both! :-)

Did my sins cause Brigham Young to misidentify Adam?

If I repent of whatever, will the 1820 newspapers write about the persecution Joseph suffered as a result of his vision?

If I go back to church, will nonmormon Egyptologists everywhere confirm the Papyrii and Facsimiles were in fact a record of Abraham?

You are thinking like a Mormon. The point is NOT that you don't really have "unresolved sin." The point is that your TBM brother attacked your character and insulted you.

When some Mormon trys to blame some aspect of your character (not really sincere, offended, wanting to sin, unresolved sin etc.) for your reason for not believing their insane bullshit, that is an insult to you.

Why not say back to him, "the reason you believe is because you are a moral coward who is afraid to face the truth so you fill your mind with absurd fantasies about how you 'have the spirit' and are better than other people like me."

Wouldn't that be the proper response for what he said to you?

We let these Mormons get away with all kinds of absurd, insulting crap. From now on call them on it. They are the ones making the insane claim that a book given to a farmer by an angel and translated into fake King-James English by a magic rock in a hat is true. That's nuts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 04:59PM by baura.

Every Mormon has unresolved sins. By his logic, they all should have left the church with you.

Here is a quote from Elder Claudio D. Zivic on the subject. It is still being taught, and this was number one on his list.

“…However, we need to be concerned and watchful that we do not fall into personal apostasy, which can result from several causes. I will mention only a few.

Apostasy frequently results when a person commits serious sin but does not repent. To silence his conscience or justify his sinful actions, the individual moves away from the truth, looking for imperfections in others or questioning Church doctrine with which he no longer agrees."

Ensign June 2009

There was a similar dismissal of apostates as mere sinners or offense-takers in the April conference. The crazy thing is that, as long as the leadership believes this BS, they will not be able to stop the steady exodus of people out. It's like a child getting a fever, and the parent says, "It must be an evil spirit." Not going to work.

But it does make it easier for church members not to take apostates seriously or think at all highly of them.

I guess that explains the universal nature of this BS. I think I may have been too close to the forsest to see the trees.....

Perhaps he is the one with unresolved sin, and therefore he can’t see the truth about what a crock the church is.

If he would truly repent, I think that he might be able to see the truth. Works both directions.

It took me about 6 months to write because I was pretty irritated. He had no answers for anything except accuse me if being a sinner. I'm not sure if he's really self righteous or clise to apostasy. We aren't all that close, we talk about once a year.

I am not quick witted enough to think of responses like I received on here. Thanks for your responses. Someday I hope to not think like a mormon at all.

to me that most of the posters here tend to have been the DEVOUT mormons and not the fringe mormons.

I take note that when I listened to the leaders and was doing my very best, my life was a hell of a mess. I'm still used as an example to my family and friends of doing it all right and having the most f*cked up life of them all.

My life is in a much better place now and I'm a HUGE sinner now in mormons' eyes. When I left the church, though, I was living it to the best of my human abilities.

As my exmo therapist says--and he was very devout, too--"we tested mormonism to its very limits and it failed us."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 08:15PM by cl2.

My husband and I were some of the more devout members in our ward. It would not have surprised me if my husband would have eventually been called to be the bishop. He was being catered to by the stake leaders. I think they saw me as his only flaw. I'm outspoken when it's called for. Not a very good door mat. The sp tried to put a wedge in our marriage. He worked overtime to turn my husband against me. He underestimated both of us.

The idea that it's your fault that you can't get the spirit and believe because of "unresolved sin," lack of effort, pride, etc. is part of the mind game. It produces guilt, which takes away one's power to control their own natural, intuitive rational way of discovering truth.

"I am not worthy, I am a sinner. I must do all I'm told and submit myself, thus becoming good and worthy." It's an old game played by religion and the LDS play it to the hilt.

Those who have been indoctrinated from childhood can hardly be blamed for falling for this hokum technique, finely crafted and perfected for centuries.

true, if you argue that my unresolved sin was looking at "anti" sites...because those are where not all but MOST of my problems with tssc came from.

That's also why I don't believe. I find no guilt at all in exploring history. I like to explore other people's motivations, so I have read extensively about other religions, atheism, agnosticism, humanism and various philosophies. Anyone who does this and isn't an absolute morgbot will eventually lose faith in mormon doctrine.

I strongly resent anyone telling me what I can and cannot, should or should not read!! I feel fortunate to have been born in a free society and in a time when reason has at least some cred. I love knowledge and I love the scientific method. You can't honestly do that and at the same time believe in an obviously made-up 19th century hoax religion.