Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
In a now-closed thread, the question was asked if I was somehow involved in any RfM outing of Mormon apologist Daniel Peterson, who is alleged to have trolled this site under false pretenses:
"Not all is what it might appear . . .
"Some people who claim to be nevermos who post here are anything but. Daniel Peterson came here using an alias and pretending to be a nevermo, for example."
(posted by “matt,” RfM bulletin board, 30 April 2012)
"Re: Not all is what it might appear . . .
"Didn't Steve Benson sniff him out here??"
(posted by:"nonmo." RfM bulletin board, 30 April 2012)
No, I wasn't involved in helping blow the fig leaf cover off of any such stealth posting by BYU's green-aproned Peterson.
(You might want to inquire of RfM poster “SL Cabbie” about his possible run-ins and run-overs involving Peterson here. As Cabbie has observed about Peterson's identity, "I've followed Peterson . . . . What we do know is Danny Boy reads this site often enough, and well . . . http://www.salamandersociety.com/interviews/danielcpeterson/ "; posted by "SL Cabbie," RfM bulletin board, 17 October 2011)
_____
What I did have the chance to participate in (along with others on this site) was helping to pull the Momask off of John Lynch, chairman of FAIR, who came to this board wrapped in "divinely"-designated Mormon disguise and disingenuousness. Here's what happened:
--All's FAIR in Uncovering Lying for the Lord: Remembering When FAIR's Chair John Lynch Came to RfM, Lied and Got Lynched (including back-channel email correspondence with Lynch)--
BACKGROUND ON LYNCH'S BUNGLED ATTEMPT AT BAITING
Chairman of the A#1 Apologetics Board for the Lord, John Lynch, came on RfM a few years back (cleverly, or so he apparently thought), during the time when I posted a series of back-channel exchanges which he and I had had (a series, by the way, which Lynch initiated by contacting me at my work after initially having posed a question to me on RfM. Going off-board, he then began poking around under the guise of innocent inquiry which really wasn't so innocent, as further reading will reveal).
During those early e-mail exchanges, Lynch attempted to cover his connection to FAIR. Ultimately, however, when pressed, he was forced to admit whose water he was actually carrying: FAIR's LDS H20.
What a drip.
_____
WHAT STARTED THE SNIFFIN': LYNCH CONTACTS ME OFF-BOARD POSING AS A SIMPLE BELIEVING LATTER-SAINT WITH QUESTIONS, WHO JUST WANTS TO LEARN
Below are my e-mails back and forth with Lynch (the ones which he initiated back in October 2005 without revealing to me his true identity).
Please note his smooth-talking, disingenuous and ingratiating style, as he sought to ply me for information while covering his own tracks back to the FAIR lair.
--Lynch to me:
"Steve,
"I posted a question to you at the exmo boards, then got chastised for being a troll. Not true, just a TBM trying to learn. Figuring you might ignore me when that happened, I thought I would try my luck through the [Arizona] Republic (I did a google on Steve Benson Cartoon).
"My question was what happened with you leaving the [Mormon] church? The only thing I seem to recall was that it had something to do with Paul Dunn. I am not trying to harass you, but if can spare a few pings back and forth with e-mail, I am curious about your experiences.
"If you are uncomfortable having dialogue whith a TBM about this (I doubt it, as I have seen you skin others alive with your quick wit), no problem. If so, perhaps if you have published your story somewhere and can point me to it, I would appreciate it.
"Thanks for your time!
"John L."
(John Lynch to Steve Benson, 13 October, 2005)
--My reply to Lynch:
"Please follow the advice of Susan, given to you on the board."
(Steve Benson to John Lynch, 13 October 2005)
--Lynch to me:
"Steve,
"I will most likely leave the exmo boards alone, at least for a while, as I do not want to create ill will, and I really am there just to learn.
"However, I am interested in hearing what happened with you. I promise I wont argue, or even challenge you (unless that is what you want, as you seem to be up for a bit of quick witted banter from time to time <smile>). I really just want to listen, though.
"Because of your family, you have some unique perspectives. I would like you to share them with me. I am not going to try and convert you, as that is not my place. I won't even disagree, if that would bother you.
"But, I would like to ask you questions. I have read your exchanges with, quite honestly, some people that were no match for you (you clearly have a quick wit and sharp intellect).
"However, they said some pretty harsh stuff, so I know you are thick skinned. Why not indulge a few of my questions, if only to educate me?
"Besides, if I am wrong for being a TBM, this is a chance for you to teach me <grin>. At the very least, it is a chance to help me understand you (assuming you care to be understood).
"I sincerely hope to hear from you soon.
"Regards,
"John Lynch "
(John Lynch to Steve Benson, 14 October 2005)
--My reply to Lynch:
"My advice still stands."
(Steve Benson to John Lynch, 14 October 2005)
--Lynch to me:
"Fair enough, Mr. Benson.
"I suppose that sensitive feelings are often easily protected behind barbed remarks and humor, but are difficult to protect in moments of serious dialogue. You are a remarkably gifted individual from what I have seen. I venture to guess that much of your genius emenates from your pain (they often say that artistic genius is).
"While I was not a party to what caused it, I can see that my status and beliefs no doubt refresh your memory of it. I sincerely pray that the ghosts of anguish that haunt you from troubled times will somehow be relieved, and that you will find the recovery your presence on the exmo boards hints that you seek.
"If you ever become willing to share your experience, if even to vent in anger, I will be a willing, safe, and non-judgmental ear.
"Kindest regards,
"John L."
(John Lynch to Steve Benson, 14 October 2005)
_____
When I posted Latter-day Lynch's e-mails on RfM, a series of behind-the-scenes investigations began more earnestly--ones bent on discovering the full identity of this "John Lynch" who had described himself to me as being "just a TBM" who had come to RfM merely "trying to learn."
Uh-huh.
Trouble for Lynch was, it wasn't that simple or that straight-forward.
Critical to unmasking this Latter-day Lone and Lying Ranger Stranger Danger was the detective work of RfM poster/computer whiz Tyson Dunn (who has now returned to the board after some absence. It would be great, indeed, if Tyson could post those RfM exchanges between Lynch and some of us here--that is, if Tyson happens to have them; Admin apparently did not archive them and I didn't keep them, either).
But Admin was quite aware at the time that Lynch was being deceptive, as well as knowingly violating the purpose and perimeter of the RfM forum.
As RfM Admininstrator "Susan I/S" notes:
"There is one other point to this: He [Lynch] knew this was not his room. We have made it very clear for MANY years this is an apologist-FREE zone. There is no way in hell he didn't know that. And that was exactly why he didn't say anything about who he really was.
". . . [T]hey [Lynch's posts on RfM] ran along the lines of, 'Oh, shucks, I just want to understand all'yall. In my job I need to relate to ex-Mos."
(posted by "Susan I/S," RFM bulletin board, 1 September 2011, original emphasis)
More recently, "Susan I/S" has observed:
"FAIR/FARMS--If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, BAFFLE them with BS. . . .
"They are NOT about truth--they are about DEFENDING. The truth is not hard to understand lol. People are not STUPID :). They do not need the FAIR/FARM boys to digest info for them and spit it back like they are feeding baby birds. That is really quite the rude thing to say.
"This is not their room. Never has been, never will be. Everyone here knows the lines, knows the routines. Been there, done that. No new news. We eat meat here, not milk, and we are capable of feeding OURSELVES."
(posted by "Susan I/S," RfM bulletin board, 11 April 2012, original emphasis)
To make a long story short on the digging that resulted in Lynch digging his own grave here, Tyson (along with help from other RfM posters, as well as from Admin) helped track the RfM Lynch to San Jose, California. Indeed, this Lynched dude had reportedly identified himself as living in the "San Jose, CA mission," plus there was further identifying information provided courtesy of a BYU website, where a 2001 FAIR news update noted and quoted the following:
"Leaders of the Foundation of Apologetic Information and Research [FAIR] were at BYU on Jan. 16 and 17 in an effort to expand their organization.
"FAIR is an organization devoted to defending criticism of doctrine, practices and beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"During their visit, President Scott Gordon and Chairman John Lynch, both from California, made plans for an upcoming FAIR convention in Utah Valley this August and met with BYU faculty members.
"They also expressed a desire for articles submitted by BYU faculty, graduate and undergraduate students. . . .
"FAIR looks to affirm faith, not to destroy detractors," Lynch said. 'We want to be a resource for people to find answers.'
"Much of the material providing answers to anti-LDS literature, however, is often too scholarly for the lay member to easily understand, Lynch said.
"FAIR hopes to target this audience of lay members with articles that are less difficult to understand.
"We want to sift through scholarly works to get easily digestible, but still scholarly articles,' Lynch said."
("Leaders of FAIR organization seek BYU involvement," by Kathryn Richard (NewsNet staff writer), 18 January 2001, on "BYU NewsNet: Brigham Young University," at: http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/12952)
The trail was getting hotter.
_____
RFM EATS LYNCH'S LUNCH
Below is a summary of how Lynch eventually got himself lassoed on RfM, as described by a reader in John Dehlin's "Mormon Stories" commmentary section:
"[FAIR's Chairman John Lynch] conveniently forgot to mention during an hour-long podcast [on the 'Mormon Stories'] and in my opinion, took advantage of [the host's nice, congenial nature. I would not have him back on your show unless he agrees to answer questions about his behavior this past week on RfM and with Steve Benson in particular and why he omitted these facts.
"He used the same practice that the Mormon Church uses by revealing his name, but not who he really was or what his intentions really were. I guess those of us over on RfM, were not ready for the 'meat,' so he just gave us the 'milk,' his name that is.
"He lied to everyone and pretended to be somebody that he wasn't. He never told us that he was on the board at FAIR. Tyson Dunn, a poster on RfM, did some homework and discovered who John Lynch was and then revealed it to all the world.
"Finally, John Lynch revealed himself for who he really was, but only after he was caught. He then claimed that he never lied or was dishonest because he gave his real name, etc. All a joke in my opinion, just like him and his bogus organization.
"They should be renamed the 'CDFAIR.' He is a lying, dishonest guy that pretends to be an upright good guy. Remember, 'beware of the evil behind the smiling eyes!!' This clearly applies to John and his so-called organization that supposedly has no affiliation whatsoever with the Mormon Church. HA HA HA!! GOOD ONE!!
"He also lied when he said that he had tried to talk to Steve Benson and didn't even know where or how to find him. The 'real truth' is that he did have direct contact with Steve Benson all week long and emailed him through his email at the 'Arizona Republic.'
"They exchanged many e-mails back and forth as John Lynch continued to lie and conceal his true identity. Everybody go on over to RfM and type 'John Lynch' on the chat board search and you can read all about what I'm saying. It was like a soap opera over there . . . with this clown, AKA John Lynch. . . .
"What's amazing is that John Lynch wouldn't leave Steve Benson alone, even after he had asked him, politely and nicely, 3-4 times, to please leave him alone!! He just couldn't get the message. He kept writing more emails and more, again, as he lied about who he really was.
"He was like a typical Mormon Missionary and he wouldn't leave him alone and kept coming back and back again. Steve shared the personal e-mail correspondence with all of is and it is also over on RFM for those that want to read it all.
"Anyway, John D, this is the true character of your guest John Lynch. I just felt that everyone should know what his tactics are and how he functions in his private life. He is a lying, deceitful apologetic for the Mormon Church, period!! He's one of their hacks, plain and simple!!
"He does their dirty work so that they don't have to. His words indeed had no value once we all knew that he had been posting under false pretenses and LYING about who he really was.
"Besides, even if we knew who he was, his words had no value anyway. Most of us over there are cured of our Cognitive Dissonance while he is still deep in it and getting deeper everyday.
"He expected us to allow him on our board, asking probing questions, while at the same time, FAIR, his beloved organization where he sits on the board, would never and does not ever allow us EXMOS the same courtesy. . . . Bets anyone? I'd be gone in a heartbeat. I may just do it for fun and report back. We'll see how Mr. John Lynch treats us on his home turf.
"When we even try to do that over there, what he did on RfM, we are banned and our responses or posts are quickly deleted. John Lynch is a complete hypocrite as is his pathetic organization. John claimed to be an honest, active member of the Mormon Church but never disclosed who he represented. And people wonder why the Mormon Church has so many problems and why us EXMOS can't leave it alone. It appears that in this case, he couldn't leave us alone, doesn't it?
"Here was the first post by Mr. John Lynch over on RfM:
"'Subject: What are the rules?
'Date: Oct 11 [2005] 19:53
'Author: John Lynch . . .
"'My name is John Lynch. I understand that this is not a forum for the "defense of "the faith." However, I want to know under what circumstances I can participate. Am I allowed to ask questions? I have no desire to 'lurk' or otherwise hide my motives. I sincerely desire to understand the experiences of those that leave the church. I am an active member, with no personal crisis of faith I am dealing with.
"'Regards,
"'John L.'
"Did everyone catch that? He said, 'I have no desire to "lurk" or otherwise hide my motives.' Well, if that's the case, then maybe you should have told us who you were, John Lynch from the FAIR board, eh? I'm sorry John D, that this is so long but I felt that the truth needed to be told and exposed. This guy is a phony and a fraud and has no credibility whatsoever!!"
("Mormon Stories # 007: 'Inside the Mind of a Mormon Apologist, Part 1,'" posted by "Samuel," 22 October 2005, at:
http://mormonstories.org/?p=29, original emphasis)
Giving primary credit where primary credit is due, RfMer "SL Cabbie" described Lynch's involuntary coming-out party on RfM this way:
"Tyson [Dunn] was the one who hung Lynch's scalp from his computer monitor."
("Tyson Was the One Who Hung . . .," post by "SL Cabbie," on "Recovery from Mormonism" bulletin board, 30 January 2011, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,100176,100176)
Having been caught red-handed, Lynch's Mormon mission--not to mention his outting on this board as FAIR's Chair--has been described in this context:
"John Lynch is a critical member involved in the behind-the-scenes operations of the organization known as FAIR. Though he has tended to avoid the limelight, he's nonetheless figured into the world of Mopologetics in a number of significant ways. For example, he has been seen from time to time 'cruising' on RfM, oftentimes doling out what some posters characterized as 'condescension.'"
("The Encyclopedia of Moapolegetics," under "John Lynch: FAIR's Man Behind the Curtain," 1 March 2011)
_____
HUNG OUT TO DRY, LYNCH TRIES TO WRIGGLE OUT OF HIS LIE OF OMISSION
Having been pulled out into the sunlight against his will, Lynch later confessed to his fellow FAIR faithful his attempted undercover operation behind RfM's enemy lines (doing so in typical "poor-persecuted-me" spinmeister fashion that those having had any experience with schooled Mormon apologists have come to expect).
Lynch gave this selective version of events:
"A few years ago, I made a foray onto a message board for individuals who have left the Church. I was open in my identity both by name and also regarding my status as a full, believing member ('TBM' as they call us). I went there looking to learn, hoping that I might somehow gain some insight that would help us with people who have floundered in their faith. What I failed to do was identify my association with FAIR.
"I tried engaging in an email exchange with Steven Benson, grandson to President Benson and a nationally recognized cartoonist who famously left the Church. The result was Steve employing his journalistic skills and 'outing' me as a FAIR board member. I was banished and ridiculed as a 'troll' as if I was someone spying on their open message board with a hidden identity. But there were a few who witnessed my sincere and respectful efforts approached me independently and offered to share their experiences. . . .
"In the end, my foray amongst the disaffected ended in my banishment, not because of my affiliation with FAIR, but because the moderators felt I had violated a trust by not disclosing this information up front. In hindsight, I guess this should have been expected. Still, my kind comportment and respectful dialogue allowed me some choice opportunities to exchange thoughts and ideas with some few who could see that I was not there for anything other than sincere reasons. My lesson was reinforced, and I learned that the virtues of charity and patience can indeed create a dominion of influence where one would not have otherwise existed.
"What I learned was enlightening. I discovered that most who leave the church and associate on that web site do so because they perceive some violation of trust occurred. Perhaps there was a teaching they held that they found out to be false, and they could no longer trust a long time mentor to whom they had anchored their testimony. Perhaps the failings of a member created an offense, and the person could not reconcile their expectations with reality. When it is a leader that disappoints, it seems the sting is so much the greater. Perhaps they found an unflattering piece of history on the Church (ironically almost always directly or indirectly through some Church or Church-sponsored source), and they feel that the truth had not been told them. In all cases, the issue was that somehow they had an unmet expectation that resulted in feeling a trust they had granted someone or something had been violated."
While applauding what one Lynch critic described as Lynch's "sincere attempt to seek understanding" (NOT!), this same critic (RfM poster "Craig P@xton") pointed out to Lynch that sneak attacks launched against RfM by Mormonism's trained testifiers are neither condoned nor constructive:
" . . . I . . . understand how your failure to fully disclose your participation here at FAIR undermined the intent of your mission.
"The so-called disaffected feel the deepest sense of betrayal from LDS leadership. We placed the greatest trust in these leaders, only to discover that we had--to put it kindly--been fed a Disney version of reality. Ironically, the so-called anti-Mormon crowd actually became more credible than our own LDS leaders.
"Your failure to fully disclose your background played into those feelings of abuse and betrayal. You only reconfirmed that representatives from your camp cannot be fully trusted. I think you blew a real opportunity to build a bridge of understanding."
(John Lynch, "Forays Amongst the Disaffected," on "FAIR BLOG: Defending Mormonism," 13 July 2009; and "Cr@ig P@xton Says," on "FAIR BLOG: Defending Mormonism," July 2009, both at:http://www.fairblog.org/2009/07/13/forays-amongst-the-disaffected-2/)
One of RfM's favorite posters has tried to cut Lynch some slack. Tal Bachman, in observing how nice Lynch was to him, noted what appears to be Lynch's modus operandi: fishing around for certain ex-Mormons to have a "friendly" chat with.
Tal writes:
"I've gotten e-mails from people all over the world asking me about the [Mormon] church, many of whom, after some conversation, have come to acknowledge the truth (although some have decided to stay in the church for social or family reasons).
"I've gotten emails from 'official' and amateur Mormon apologists, who all (I found) rely on the same mind games I used to play on myself to keep believing.
"Incidentally, the only one of these guys who seemed like a decent guy was John Lynch from FAIR. I know others on here have a different opinion, but that was my experience. I understand he is still doing his best to defend Joseph's untrue claims, and he may always do this; even under the most optimal circumstances, you don't just come to see that your entire life was built on a fraud in a couple of weeks, or months, or even years. Sometimes it takes a long, long time, if it happens at all. It is especially hard once you've taken a public stand; not because you consciously don't want to 'lose face,' but (I think) because largely unconscious forces, seeking to protect us from pain, loss of status, etc., make it almost impossible to see what's really there."
(Tal Bachman, "The Beginning Of A Long Goodbye," 24 July 2006)
Tal is certainly right on one thing: Lynch lost face, big-time, when he tried to creep on to RfM under a false face. (Recall Lynch's cooing, deceptive assurances given here on RfM: "Am I allowed to ask questions? I have no desire to 'lurk' or otherwise hide my motives").
Door #3, Brother Lynch: Telestial Kingdomville, where the liars hang out.
*****
And RfM poster "Craig P@xton" is right, as well. Earth to Lynch: "[Y]ou blew a real opportunity to build a bridge of understanding."
Heh. He sure as hell did.
It would help if Lynch would understand--and then do--what Mormons are taught not to understand and not to do: namely, to understand the truth and then to tell it.
What a concept.
Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 12:00PM by steve benson.
"Not all is what it might appear . . .
"Some people who claim to be nevermos who post here are anything but. Daniel Peterson came here using an alias and pretending to be a nevermo, for example."
(posted by “matt,” RfM bulletin board, 30 April 2012)
"Re: Not all is what it might appear . . .
"Didn't Steve Benson sniff him out here??"
(posted by:"nonmo." RfM bulletin board, 30 April 2012)
No, I wasn't involved in helping blow the fig leaf cover off of any such stealth posting by BYU's green-aproned Peterson.
(You might want to inquire of RfM poster “SL Cabbie” about his possible run-ins and run-overs involving Peterson here. As Cabbie has observed about Peterson's identity, "I've followed Peterson . . . . What we do know is Danny Boy reads this site often enough, and well . . . http://www.salamandersociety.com/interviews/danielcpeterson/ "; posted by "SL Cabbie," RfM bulletin board, 17 October 2011)
_____
What I did have the chance to participate in (along with others on this site) was helping to pull the Momask off of John Lynch, chairman of FAIR, who came to this board wrapped in "divinely"-designated Mormon disguise and disingenuousness. Here's what happened:
--All's FAIR in Uncovering Lying for the Lord: Remembering When FAIR's Chair John Lynch Came to RfM, Lied and Got Lynched (including back-channel email correspondence with Lynch)--
BACKGROUND ON LYNCH'S BUNGLED ATTEMPT AT BAITING
Chairman of the A#1 Apologetics Board for the Lord, John Lynch, came on RfM a few years back (cleverly, or so he apparently thought), during the time when I posted a series of back-channel exchanges which he and I had had (a series, by the way, which Lynch initiated by contacting me at my work after initially having posed a question to me on RfM. Going off-board, he then began poking around under the guise of innocent inquiry which really wasn't so innocent, as further reading will reveal).
During those early e-mail exchanges, Lynch attempted to cover his connection to FAIR. Ultimately, however, when pressed, he was forced to admit whose water he was actually carrying: FAIR's LDS H20.
What a drip.
_____
WHAT STARTED THE SNIFFIN': LYNCH CONTACTS ME OFF-BOARD POSING AS A SIMPLE BELIEVING LATTER-SAINT WITH QUESTIONS, WHO JUST WANTS TO LEARN
Below are my e-mails back and forth with Lynch (the ones which he initiated back in October 2005 without revealing to me his true identity).
Please note his smooth-talking, disingenuous and ingratiating style, as he sought to ply me for information while covering his own tracks back to the FAIR lair.
--Lynch to me:
"Steve,
"I posted a question to you at the exmo boards, then got chastised for being a troll. Not true, just a TBM trying to learn. Figuring you might ignore me when that happened, I thought I would try my luck through the [Arizona] Republic (I did a google on Steve Benson Cartoon).
"My question was what happened with you leaving the [Mormon] church? The only thing I seem to recall was that it had something to do with Paul Dunn. I am not trying to harass you, but if can spare a few pings back and forth with e-mail, I am curious about your experiences.
"If you are uncomfortable having dialogue whith a TBM about this (I doubt it, as I have seen you skin others alive with your quick wit), no problem. If so, perhaps if you have published your story somewhere and can point me to it, I would appreciate it.
"Thanks for your time!
"John L."
(John Lynch to Steve Benson, 13 October, 2005)
--My reply to Lynch:
"Please follow the advice of Susan, given to you on the board."
(Steve Benson to John Lynch, 13 October 2005)
--Lynch to me:
"Steve,
"I will most likely leave the exmo boards alone, at least for a while, as I do not want to create ill will, and I really am there just to learn.
"However, I am interested in hearing what happened with you. I promise I wont argue, or even challenge you (unless that is what you want, as you seem to be up for a bit of quick witted banter from time to time <smile>). I really just want to listen, though.
"Because of your family, you have some unique perspectives. I would like you to share them with me. I am not going to try and convert you, as that is not my place. I won't even disagree, if that would bother you.
"But, I would like to ask you questions. I have read your exchanges with, quite honestly, some people that were no match for you (you clearly have a quick wit and sharp intellect).
"However, they said some pretty harsh stuff, so I know you are thick skinned. Why not indulge a few of my questions, if only to educate me?
"Besides, if I am wrong for being a TBM, this is a chance for you to teach me <grin>. At the very least, it is a chance to help me understand you (assuming you care to be understood).
"I sincerely hope to hear from you soon.
"Regards,
"John Lynch "
(John Lynch to Steve Benson, 14 October 2005)
--My reply to Lynch:
"My advice still stands."
(Steve Benson to John Lynch, 14 October 2005)
--Lynch to me:
"Fair enough, Mr. Benson.
"I suppose that sensitive feelings are often easily protected behind barbed remarks and humor, but are difficult to protect in moments of serious dialogue. You are a remarkably gifted individual from what I have seen. I venture to guess that much of your genius emenates from your pain (they often say that artistic genius is).
"While I was not a party to what caused it, I can see that my status and beliefs no doubt refresh your memory of it. I sincerely pray that the ghosts of anguish that haunt you from troubled times will somehow be relieved, and that you will find the recovery your presence on the exmo boards hints that you seek.
"If you ever become willing to share your experience, if even to vent in anger, I will be a willing, safe, and non-judgmental ear.
"Kindest regards,
"John L."
(John Lynch to Steve Benson, 14 October 2005)
_____
When I posted Latter-day Lynch's e-mails on RfM, a series of behind-the-scenes investigations began more earnestly--ones bent on discovering the full identity of this "John Lynch" who had described himself to me as being "just a TBM" who had come to RfM merely "trying to learn."
Uh-huh.
Trouble for Lynch was, it wasn't that simple or that straight-forward.
Critical to unmasking this Latter-day Lone and Lying Ranger Stranger Danger was the detective work of RfM poster/computer whiz Tyson Dunn (who has now returned to the board after some absence. It would be great, indeed, if Tyson could post those RfM exchanges between Lynch and some of us here--that is, if Tyson happens to have them; Admin apparently did not archive them and I didn't keep them, either).
But Admin was quite aware at the time that Lynch was being deceptive, as well as knowingly violating the purpose and perimeter of the RfM forum.
As RfM Admininstrator "Susan I/S" notes:
"There is one other point to this: He [Lynch] knew this was not his room. We have made it very clear for MANY years this is an apologist-FREE zone. There is no way in hell he didn't know that. And that was exactly why he didn't say anything about who he really was.
". . . [T]hey [Lynch's posts on RfM] ran along the lines of, 'Oh, shucks, I just want to understand all'yall. In my job I need to relate to ex-Mos."
(posted by "Susan I/S," RFM bulletin board, 1 September 2011, original emphasis)
More recently, "Susan I/S" has observed:
"FAIR/FARMS--If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, BAFFLE them with BS. . . .
"They are NOT about truth--they are about DEFENDING. The truth is not hard to understand lol. People are not STUPID :). They do not need the FAIR/FARM boys to digest info for them and spit it back like they are feeding baby birds. That is really quite the rude thing to say.
"This is not their room. Never has been, never will be. Everyone here knows the lines, knows the routines. Been there, done that. No new news. We eat meat here, not milk, and we are capable of feeding OURSELVES."
(posted by "Susan I/S," RfM bulletin board, 11 April 2012, original emphasis)
To make a long story short on the digging that resulted in Lynch digging his own grave here, Tyson (along with help from other RfM posters, as well as from Admin) helped track the RfM Lynch to San Jose, California. Indeed, this Lynched dude had reportedly identified himself as living in the "San Jose, CA mission," plus there was further identifying information provided courtesy of a BYU website, where a 2001 FAIR news update noted and quoted the following:
"Leaders of the Foundation of Apologetic Information and Research [FAIR] were at BYU on Jan. 16 and 17 in an effort to expand their organization.
"FAIR is an organization devoted to defending criticism of doctrine, practices and beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"During their visit, President Scott Gordon and Chairman John Lynch, both from California, made plans for an upcoming FAIR convention in Utah Valley this August and met with BYU faculty members.
"They also expressed a desire for articles submitted by BYU faculty, graduate and undergraduate students. . . .
"FAIR looks to affirm faith, not to destroy detractors," Lynch said. 'We want to be a resource for people to find answers.'
"Much of the material providing answers to anti-LDS literature, however, is often too scholarly for the lay member to easily understand, Lynch said.
"FAIR hopes to target this audience of lay members with articles that are less difficult to understand.
"We want to sift through scholarly works to get easily digestible, but still scholarly articles,' Lynch said."
("Leaders of FAIR organization seek BYU involvement," by Kathryn Richard (NewsNet staff writer), 18 January 2001, on "BYU NewsNet: Brigham Young University," at: http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/12952)
The trail was getting hotter.
_____
RFM EATS LYNCH'S LUNCH
Below is a summary of how Lynch eventually got himself lassoed on RfM, as described by a reader in John Dehlin's "Mormon Stories" commmentary section:
"[FAIR's Chairman John Lynch] conveniently forgot to mention during an hour-long podcast [on the 'Mormon Stories'] and in my opinion, took advantage of [the host's nice, congenial nature. I would not have him back on your show unless he agrees to answer questions about his behavior this past week on RfM and with Steve Benson in particular and why he omitted these facts.
"He used the same practice that the Mormon Church uses by revealing his name, but not who he really was or what his intentions really were. I guess those of us over on RfM, were not ready for the 'meat,' so he just gave us the 'milk,' his name that is.
"He lied to everyone and pretended to be somebody that he wasn't. He never told us that he was on the board at FAIR. Tyson Dunn, a poster on RfM, did some homework and discovered who John Lynch was and then revealed it to all the world.
"Finally, John Lynch revealed himself for who he really was, but only after he was caught. He then claimed that he never lied or was dishonest because he gave his real name, etc. All a joke in my opinion, just like him and his bogus organization.
"They should be renamed the 'CDFAIR.' He is a lying, dishonest guy that pretends to be an upright good guy. Remember, 'beware of the evil behind the smiling eyes!!' This clearly applies to John and his so-called organization that supposedly has no affiliation whatsoever with the Mormon Church. HA HA HA!! GOOD ONE!!
"He also lied when he said that he had tried to talk to Steve Benson and didn't even know where or how to find him. The 'real truth' is that he did have direct contact with Steve Benson all week long and emailed him through his email at the 'Arizona Republic.'
"They exchanged many e-mails back and forth as John Lynch continued to lie and conceal his true identity. Everybody go on over to RfM and type 'John Lynch' on the chat board search and you can read all about what I'm saying. It was like a soap opera over there . . . with this clown, AKA John Lynch. . . .
"What's amazing is that John Lynch wouldn't leave Steve Benson alone, even after he had asked him, politely and nicely, 3-4 times, to please leave him alone!! He just couldn't get the message. He kept writing more emails and more, again, as he lied about who he really was.
"He was like a typical Mormon Missionary and he wouldn't leave him alone and kept coming back and back again. Steve shared the personal e-mail correspondence with all of is and it is also over on RFM for those that want to read it all.
"Anyway, John D, this is the true character of your guest John Lynch. I just felt that everyone should know what his tactics are and how he functions in his private life. He is a lying, deceitful apologetic for the Mormon Church, period!! He's one of their hacks, plain and simple!!
"He does their dirty work so that they don't have to. His words indeed had no value once we all knew that he had been posting under false pretenses and LYING about who he really was.
"Besides, even if we knew who he was, his words had no value anyway. Most of us over there are cured of our Cognitive Dissonance while he is still deep in it and getting deeper everyday.
"He expected us to allow him on our board, asking probing questions, while at the same time, FAIR, his beloved organization where he sits on the board, would never and does not ever allow us EXMOS the same courtesy. . . . Bets anyone? I'd be gone in a heartbeat. I may just do it for fun and report back. We'll see how Mr. John Lynch treats us on his home turf.
"When we even try to do that over there, what he did on RfM, we are banned and our responses or posts are quickly deleted. John Lynch is a complete hypocrite as is his pathetic organization. John claimed to be an honest, active member of the Mormon Church but never disclosed who he represented. And people wonder why the Mormon Church has so many problems and why us EXMOS can't leave it alone. It appears that in this case, he couldn't leave us alone, doesn't it?
"Here was the first post by Mr. John Lynch over on RfM:
"'Subject: What are the rules?
'Date: Oct 11 [2005] 19:53
'Author: John Lynch . . .
"'My name is John Lynch. I understand that this is not a forum for the "defense of "the faith." However, I want to know under what circumstances I can participate. Am I allowed to ask questions? I have no desire to 'lurk' or otherwise hide my motives. I sincerely desire to understand the experiences of those that leave the church. I am an active member, with no personal crisis of faith I am dealing with.
"'Regards,
"'John L.'
"Did everyone catch that? He said, 'I have no desire to "lurk" or otherwise hide my motives.' Well, if that's the case, then maybe you should have told us who you were, John Lynch from the FAIR board, eh? I'm sorry John D, that this is so long but I felt that the truth needed to be told and exposed. This guy is a phony and a fraud and has no credibility whatsoever!!"
("Mormon Stories # 007: 'Inside the Mind of a Mormon Apologist, Part 1,'" posted by "Samuel," 22 October 2005, at:
http://mormonstories.org/?p=29, original emphasis)
Giving primary credit where primary credit is due, RfMer "SL Cabbie" described Lynch's involuntary coming-out party on RfM this way:
"Tyson [Dunn] was the one who hung Lynch's scalp from his computer monitor."
("Tyson Was the One Who Hung . . .," post by "SL Cabbie," on "Recovery from Mormonism" bulletin board, 30 January 2011, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,100176,100176)
Having been caught red-handed, Lynch's Mormon mission--not to mention his outting on this board as FAIR's Chair--has been described in this context:
"John Lynch is a critical member involved in the behind-the-scenes operations of the organization known as FAIR. Though he has tended to avoid the limelight, he's nonetheless figured into the world of Mopologetics in a number of significant ways. For example, he has been seen from time to time 'cruising' on RfM, oftentimes doling out what some posters characterized as 'condescension.'"
("The Encyclopedia of Moapolegetics," under "John Lynch: FAIR's Man Behind the Curtain," 1 March 2011)
_____
HUNG OUT TO DRY, LYNCH TRIES TO WRIGGLE OUT OF HIS LIE OF OMISSION
Having been pulled out into the sunlight against his will, Lynch later confessed to his fellow FAIR faithful his attempted undercover operation behind RfM's enemy lines (doing so in typical "poor-persecuted-me" spinmeister fashion that those having had any experience with schooled Mormon apologists have come to expect).
Lynch gave this selective version of events:
"A few years ago, I made a foray onto a message board for individuals who have left the Church. I was open in my identity both by name and also regarding my status as a full, believing member ('TBM' as they call us). I went there looking to learn, hoping that I might somehow gain some insight that would help us with people who have floundered in their faith. What I failed to do was identify my association with FAIR.
"I tried engaging in an email exchange with Steven Benson, grandson to President Benson and a nationally recognized cartoonist who famously left the Church. The result was Steve employing his journalistic skills and 'outing' me as a FAIR board member. I was banished and ridiculed as a 'troll' as if I was someone spying on their open message board with a hidden identity. But there were a few who witnessed my sincere and respectful efforts approached me independently and offered to share their experiences. . . .
"In the end, my foray amongst the disaffected ended in my banishment, not because of my affiliation with FAIR, but because the moderators felt I had violated a trust by not disclosing this information up front. In hindsight, I guess this should have been expected. Still, my kind comportment and respectful dialogue allowed me some choice opportunities to exchange thoughts and ideas with some few who could see that I was not there for anything other than sincere reasons. My lesson was reinforced, and I learned that the virtues of charity and patience can indeed create a dominion of influence where one would not have otherwise existed.
"What I learned was enlightening. I discovered that most who leave the church and associate on that web site do so because they perceive some violation of trust occurred. Perhaps there was a teaching they held that they found out to be false, and they could no longer trust a long time mentor to whom they had anchored their testimony. Perhaps the failings of a member created an offense, and the person could not reconcile their expectations with reality. When it is a leader that disappoints, it seems the sting is so much the greater. Perhaps they found an unflattering piece of history on the Church (ironically almost always directly or indirectly through some Church or Church-sponsored source), and they feel that the truth had not been told them. In all cases, the issue was that somehow they had an unmet expectation that resulted in feeling a trust they had granted someone or something had been violated."
While applauding what one Lynch critic described as Lynch's "sincere attempt to seek understanding" (NOT!), this same critic (RfM poster "Craig P@xton") pointed out to Lynch that sneak attacks launched against RfM by Mormonism's trained testifiers are neither condoned nor constructive:
" . . . I . . . understand how your failure to fully disclose your participation here at FAIR undermined the intent of your mission.
"The so-called disaffected feel the deepest sense of betrayal from LDS leadership. We placed the greatest trust in these leaders, only to discover that we had--to put it kindly--been fed a Disney version of reality. Ironically, the so-called anti-Mormon crowd actually became more credible than our own LDS leaders.
"Your failure to fully disclose your background played into those feelings of abuse and betrayal. You only reconfirmed that representatives from your camp cannot be fully trusted. I think you blew a real opportunity to build a bridge of understanding."
(John Lynch, "Forays Amongst the Disaffected," on "FAIR BLOG: Defending Mormonism," 13 July 2009; and "Cr@ig P@xton Says," on "FAIR BLOG: Defending Mormonism," July 2009, both at:http://www.fairblog.org/2009/07/13/forays-amongst-the-disaffected-2/)
One of RfM's favorite posters has tried to cut Lynch some slack. Tal Bachman, in observing how nice Lynch was to him, noted what appears to be Lynch's modus operandi: fishing around for certain ex-Mormons to have a "friendly" chat with.
Tal writes:
"I've gotten e-mails from people all over the world asking me about the [Mormon] church, many of whom, after some conversation, have come to acknowledge the truth (although some have decided to stay in the church for social or family reasons).
"I've gotten emails from 'official' and amateur Mormon apologists, who all (I found) rely on the same mind games I used to play on myself to keep believing.
"Incidentally, the only one of these guys who seemed like a decent guy was John Lynch from FAIR. I know others on here have a different opinion, but that was my experience. I understand he is still doing his best to defend Joseph's untrue claims, and he may always do this; even under the most optimal circumstances, you don't just come to see that your entire life was built on a fraud in a couple of weeks, or months, or even years. Sometimes it takes a long, long time, if it happens at all. It is especially hard once you've taken a public stand; not because you consciously don't want to 'lose face,' but (I think) because largely unconscious forces, seeking to protect us from pain, loss of status, etc., make it almost impossible to see what's really there."
(Tal Bachman, "The Beginning Of A Long Goodbye," 24 July 2006)
Tal is certainly right on one thing: Lynch lost face, big-time, when he tried to creep on to RfM under a false face. (Recall Lynch's cooing, deceptive assurances given here on RfM: "Am I allowed to ask questions? I have no desire to 'lurk' or otherwise hide my motives").
Door #3, Brother Lynch: Telestial Kingdomville, where the liars hang out.
*****
And RfM poster "Craig P@xton" is right, as well. Earth to Lynch: "[Y]ou blew a real opportunity to build a bridge of understanding."
Heh. He sure as hell did.
It would help if Lynch would understand--and then do--what Mormons are taught not to understand and not to do: namely, to understand the truth and then to tell it.
What a concept.
Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 12:00PM by steve benson.
Lynch is Lynch and Peterson is Denial C. and I think much the nastier of the two...
Steve and I were on a thread one night and a poster slipped in and cited a reference to D. Michael Quinn (whom Steve knows, and I don't) that was from FAIR or FARMS (Maxwell Institute). Speaking for myself, I do think Quinn's belief in Joseph Smith's divinity impairs his objectivity, and I am aware that's a really nasty charge to level at a historian with better credentials than my own. I recall some statements he made about Orrin Porter Rockwell were particularly troubing. He said we couldn't "know" who the real Destroying Angel was, an analysis I think is horseshit. So I was willing to look at the FAIR material...
Anyway, this poster used a "female moniker" (I don't even remember what it was; in similar fashion, I try forget obnoxious cab customers), and there was an obvious "elevated academic style" to the writing that I know from practice is difficult to "maintain" (and I have about 40-odd hours of grad credit in English and other subjects).
Steve showed up, and the troll--I only had my suspicions initially--turned nasty and was over-the-top... As soon as we both confronted "it" (I'm reasonably sure now it was a male), the poster disappeared with a parting reference to Steve's grandfather.
It may have been Peterson, but that's uncertain. My sources tell me he used to troll here before I arrived... I was around when Van Hale came here several times under different aliases and disingenuously denied having an "agenda." Hale lost a history debate to me, and this was when I was quite new here. Of course he would deny he lost, but the facts are on my side. Nowadays I'm confident I could clean his clock.
I was watching and mostly uninvolved when Lynch showed up here; ADMIN was upset he managed to escape detection for awhile, but that's all...
I don't give the guy much credit for anything beyond the usual "symptoms" of cognitive dissonance (and a decided lack of maturity which is common to an LDS culture that never learned to think for itself).
Lately I've been elsewhere occupied, primarily with political stuff since I'm troubled by the prospect of a Romney presidency although fairly optimistic at this point he lacks the necessary moxey to win the election, and as in all organizations, the culture and "personality" below greatly resembles the individual at the top.
Sorry for the digression, but what I've noticed "out there" is many of the same individuals who trolled here are visiting sites like the Salt Lake Tribune's, etc.
I'll engage with those sorts if I think there are those who can benefit from seeing the "mindset' exposed, but it is draining and mostly unproductive.
I can say two regular posters here who are close friends of mine engaged Danny Boy out on the Internet, and he's got a serious "glass jaw."
It's really a sad situation because the polarization is very real... Of late I've been privileged to know of several who've tried to engage Rod Meldrum, and the guy apparently is nice enough sort, but he's also seriously deluded and a threat to genuine knowledge and authentic learning.
Trolls will also "follow" you out into cyber-space, but the ones I've run into have been pretty much second string. I was floored last week at piece in HuffPo where one LDS defender went whole hog with every scrap of apologetics I've ever seen and even some I hadn't. There were perhaps a dozen long posts that appeared in rapid succession and had to get past the moderators (my one post was in limbo for four hours).
The apologetics all disappeared in one fell swoop, and I'm kind of mystified... BTW, I've pretty much relegated HuffPo to "tabloid status" these days, and I removed the bookmark from my browser to help eliminate temptation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 03:20AM by SL Cabbie.
Steve and I were on a thread one night and a poster slipped in and cited a reference to D. Michael Quinn (whom Steve knows, and I don't) that was from FAIR or FARMS (Maxwell Institute). Speaking for myself, I do think Quinn's belief in Joseph Smith's divinity impairs his objectivity, and I am aware that's a really nasty charge to level at a historian with better credentials than my own. I recall some statements he made about Orrin Porter Rockwell were particularly troubing. He said we couldn't "know" who the real Destroying Angel was, an analysis I think is horseshit. So I was willing to look at the FAIR material...
Anyway, this poster used a "female moniker" (I don't even remember what it was; in similar fashion, I try forget obnoxious cab customers), and there was an obvious "elevated academic style" to the writing that I know from practice is difficult to "maintain" (and I have about 40-odd hours of grad credit in English and other subjects).
Steve showed up, and the troll--I only had my suspicions initially--turned nasty and was over-the-top... As soon as we both confronted "it" (I'm reasonably sure now it was a male), the poster disappeared with a parting reference to Steve's grandfather.
It may have been Peterson, but that's uncertain. My sources tell me he used to troll here before I arrived... I was around when Van Hale came here several times under different aliases and disingenuously denied having an "agenda." Hale lost a history debate to me, and this was when I was quite new here. Of course he would deny he lost, but the facts are on my side. Nowadays I'm confident I could clean his clock.
I was watching and mostly uninvolved when Lynch showed up here; ADMIN was upset he managed to escape detection for awhile, but that's all...
I don't give the guy much credit for anything beyond the usual "symptoms" of cognitive dissonance (and a decided lack of maturity which is common to an LDS culture that never learned to think for itself).
Lately I've been elsewhere occupied, primarily with political stuff since I'm troubled by the prospect of a Romney presidency although fairly optimistic at this point he lacks the necessary moxey to win the election, and as in all organizations, the culture and "personality" below greatly resembles the individual at the top.
Sorry for the digression, but what I've noticed "out there" is many of the same individuals who trolled here are visiting sites like the Salt Lake Tribune's, etc.
I'll engage with those sorts if I think there are those who can benefit from seeing the "mindset' exposed, but it is draining and mostly unproductive.
I can say two regular posters here who are close friends of mine engaged Danny Boy out on the Internet, and he's got a serious "glass jaw."
It's really a sad situation because the polarization is very real... Of late I've been privileged to know of several who've tried to engage Rod Meldrum, and the guy apparently is nice enough sort, but he's also seriously deluded and a threat to genuine knowledge and authentic learning.
Trolls will also "follow" you out into cyber-space, but the ones I've run into have been pretty much second string. I was floored last week at piece in HuffPo where one LDS defender went whole hog with every scrap of apologetics I've ever seen and even some I hadn't. There were perhaps a dozen long posts that appeared in rapid succession and had to get past the moderators (my one post was in limbo for four hours).
The apologetics all disappeared in one fell swoop, and I'm kind of mystified... BTW, I've pretty much relegated HuffPo to "tabloid status" these days, and I removed the bookmark from my browser to help eliminate temptation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 03:20AM by SL Cabbie.
I remember the female impersonator RfM troll that you speak of. Our consensus was that it was probbly Danny Fanny Alger Peterson.
LOLLLLLZZZZZZZ
Steve Benson is one of a kind. I'm sure the TBM would always refer him as "that Defiant S.O.B".
LOLLLLLZZZZZZZ
Steve Benson is one of a kind. I'm sure the TBM would always refer him as "that Defiant S.O.B".
Do any of these guys ever commit acts of blasphemy in order to further their disguise? I believe that would be in direct violation of their faith.
What bothers me is his arrogance in thinking he is now qualified to speak for ex-mormons about our reasons for leaving.
"What I learned was enlightening. I discovered that most who leave the church and associate on that web site do so because they perceive some violation of trust occurred. Perhaps there was a teaching they held that they found out to be false, and they could no longer trust a long time mentor to whom they had anchored their testimony. Perhaps the failings of a member created an offense, and the person could not reconcile their expectations with reality. When it is a leader that disappoints, it seems the sting is so much the greater. Perhaps they found an unflattering piece of history on the Church (ironically almost always directly or indirectly through some Church or Church-sponsored source), and they feel that the truth had not been told them. In all cases, the issue was that somehow they had an unmet expectation that resulted in feeling a trust they had granted someone or something had been violated."
Yes, I had an unmet expectation. Somehow I expected that the Mormon church was actually teaching the truth, that the prophet actually spoke to God, that the Book of Mormon was actually a record of real people and was revealed by God to Joseph Smith. Turns out it was all just lies to manipulate people. John Lynch would make it sound like I was offended by some leader or found an obscure piece of church history that was misrepresented. Nope, it's the foundational doctrines of the church that are lies. Even though the church no longer seems to have any foundational doctrine.
I'd like to talk to John Lynch and tell him not to speak for me. Anyone who really wants to know why we left Mormonism can come read it for themselves - as he mentions, it's an open board. Don't try to translate it into your Mormon worldview and then give your biased interpretation as fact.
"What I learned was enlightening. I discovered that most who leave the church and associate on that web site do so because they perceive some violation of trust occurred. Perhaps there was a teaching they held that they found out to be false, and they could no longer trust a long time mentor to whom they had anchored their testimony. Perhaps the failings of a member created an offense, and the person could not reconcile their expectations with reality. When it is a leader that disappoints, it seems the sting is so much the greater. Perhaps they found an unflattering piece of history on the Church (ironically almost always directly or indirectly through some Church or Church-sponsored source), and they feel that the truth had not been told them. In all cases, the issue was that somehow they had an unmet expectation that resulted in feeling a trust they had granted someone or something had been violated."
Yes, I had an unmet expectation. Somehow I expected that the Mormon church was actually teaching the truth, that the prophet actually spoke to God, that the Book of Mormon was actually a record of real people and was revealed by God to Joseph Smith. Turns out it was all just lies to manipulate people. John Lynch would make it sound like I was offended by some leader or found an obscure piece of church history that was misrepresented. Nope, it's the foundational doctrines of the church that are lies. Even though the church no longer seems to have any foundational doctrine.
I'd like to talk to John Lynch and tell him not to speak for me. Anyone who really wants to know why we left Mormonism can come read it for themselves - as he mentions, it's an open board. Don't try to translate it into your Mormon worldview and then give your biased interpretation as fact.
Steve, whats your point to this long winded post? Chill out, this took place 7 years ago.
Your more effective discussing doctrinal issues than grandstanding.
Go ahead, smite me.
Your more effective discussing doctrinal issues than grandstanding.
Go ahead, smite me.
First Item: You don't have to click on Steve's moniker. Even unrecovered sorts like yourself believe in free agency...
Second: Lynch came here knowing the rules against "defenses" of the faith... He persisted, nevertheless. At the time, FAIR had it's own message board that repeatedly barred "offenders," often with little warning and yet allowed the faithful essentially unlimited ad hominem attacks and unsubstantiated claims.
Now a whole of people who come here (and there are more coming than ever) are often very torn between their loyalties to the church and LDS apologists exploit that vulnerability...
Pointing to their past transgressions (all of the major apologists have trolled this site at one time or another; in my time here that has included Michael Ash, Van Hale, and Jeff Lindsay among others) is useful to "establish character" (in courtroom terms).
Now if you're serious about learning stuff here, put down your do-it-yourself crucifixion kit first... Otherwise you're exposing yourself to the consequences...
Second: Lynch came here knowing the rules against "defenses" of the faith... He persisted, nevertheless. At the time, FAIR had it's own message board that repeatedly barred "offenders," often with little warning and yet allowed the faithful essentially unlimited ad hominem attacks and unsubstantiated claims.
Now a whole of people who come here (and there are more coming than ever) are often very torn between their loyalties to the church and LDS apologists exploit that vulnerability...
Pointing to their past transgressions (all of the major apologists have trolled this site at one time or another; in my time here that has included Michael Ash, Van Hale, and Jeff Lindsay among others) is useful to "establish character" (in courtroom terms).
Now if you're serious about learning stuff here, put down your do-it-yourself crucifixion kit first... Otherwise you're exposing yourself to the consequences...
By the way, if you had meaningfully read the post, you would have known that I posted it because another poster here had recently and inaccurately suggested I had outted Peterson. It was Lynch, not Peterson. So I posted it to clear up any confusion.
As to your complaint that the Lynch outting occured seven years ago, well, Joseph Smith lied about the Book of Mormon back in the 1820s.
Truth-telling knows no statute of limitations.
Consider yourself smited.
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2012 10:02AM by steve benson.
As to your complaint that the Lynch outting occured seven years ago, well, Joseph Smith lied about the Book of Mormon back in the 1820s.
Truth-telling knows no statute of limitations.
Consider yourself smited.
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2012 10:02AM by steve benson.
Steve, you addressed the confusion, the board will now go to recess.
. . . given that it is not as lazy as you.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 07:47PM by steve benson.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 07:47PM by steve benson.
Is there a statute of limitations on discussing matters pertaining to mormonism on this board?
With all of the information that those apologists seem to have at their disposal, is it even remotely possible that they could still believe in the lie of mormonism? I know what cognitive dissonance is but at a certain point the earth is still round no matter how much you stomp on it trying to flatten it out.
Thanks, Steve. New to the board. Interesting background. Any story about the true nature of FAIR or Peterson interests me.
Those are pretty impressive resumes for Mormon trolls, and they still get their butts handed to them. It's almost like they were defending a mountain of nonsense.
and the fallout--as I was new to the board and got sucked in by him.
I do love how he made a lot of "assumptions" about the reasons you left and the reasons you weren't interested in having a discussion with him.
I do love how he made a lot of "assumptions" about the reasons you left and the reasons you weren't interested in having a discussion with him.
That's what is great about your posts Steve!!! Just the facts!
Keep up the good research always informative always welcome!
Keep up the good research always informative always welcome!