**WE** don't have to come up with a way of figuring out if resignations are being turned in as jokes for fully active wardmembers. Morg paperwork is someone else's problem.

Next issue. Are mormons smart? Some are. That doesn't mean **WE** can't be proud of having the guts to leave and find our own way in the world. I did it at about age 20 and I'm damn proud of the fact. This was before internet or RfM. If I can do it, anyone with half a brain and some courage can too. If they don't, that isn't *my* problem.

I have every right to be proud of leaving a destructive cult. Anyone reading this has the same right. Be proud of having brains, insight and gumption that many TBMs lack!

Do it in a minute or stay for years because of family and friends. Anyone who is able to escape any cult is heroic, smart, and deserving of honor.

I agree

Well said. +1

Thank you!!

Are practicing TBMs as smart and courageous as exmos? Generally speaking, I'd say they haven't yet proven their mettle to me and exmos have.

I've often said that I can respect many things about TBMs, but I don't respect the fact that they are still contributing to a cult of racism, sexism, and homophobia. That shows a lack of insight and character in my opinion.

For me, I would have to know they had actually read up on leaving. Before, or if I ever were to label someone as "less" then me...I would have to be very careful.

This subject is not just as straight forward as - Read the truth here once and leave the church. I wish it were. Ain't happening much.

The number of highly educated people suffering with this subject must be large. After all BYU graduates many many Morg machines.

Trying to shame then into "seeing the truth" against Morg is as damaging as Morg..lol. Maybe it works in a few.... but the majority I feel do not want even more condemnation. Certainly not from a exmo. I will appeal to thier logic and praise thier progress.

Just my take. Just on my first cup of the day

I repeat, I left at a very young age without benenfit of RfM or the internet or the availability of materials about any of the flaws in doctrine or history.

Don't say I left because I was identical to TBMs who stayed in. That makes no sense.

I care zero about if someone wants to leave or not. That's *their* business, not mine. This has nothing to do with shame.

It's about *my* accomplishment which was huge. Diminishing that is unjustified.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 10:01AM by Cheryl.

Cheryl, I agree. Many Mormons are highly educated and intelligent - like my family. They have strong cultural and social ties, it's their way of life, they've never known anything else. It's completely understandable why they would stay, deal with the cognitive dissonance, and focus on the better parts of Mormonism while avoiding/denying the sexism, racism, etc. Then there are those of us who really care about truth and what is right and wrong - idealists might be the word for us - who have the courage to act on our convictions. That is an accomplishment, and one that we should recognize. If TBMs are offended that we are celebrating our courage and integrity in leaving the Mormon religion, maybe their offense is because they know that we made the better choice, while they just go with the flow because they lack the courage to follow our lead.
On the other hand, there are some Mormons who absolutely, adamantly believe. "I Believe", from the Book of Mormon musical, shows it perfectly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHEqCXY2B-w
I used to be that deluded but absolutely committed missionary. There is a certain power in following your convictions, even when those convictions are wrong. Someday that missionary will discover that everything he believed so strongly was a lie - and then he will have to choose either his courage and integrity, or his religious upbringing.

Who wants to diminish your accomplishment? not I.

But many of us here have that same accomplishment, so what. That does not mean I have to put anyone down to make me feel big.

Morg encouraged us to label people who didn't see things thier way. To feel somehow "better" than the rest.

I reject that, not needed anymore. It is so very freeing

One step along the way, I am sure

So what you ask?

This is a support site and you're anything but.

When my ex-wife told the SP that I was gay, he called me up to discuss it. I told him my private life was none of his business.

So he held a court which I did not attend, and shortly afterwards, they showed me the door, along with a note asking me to keep paying my tithing.

After all that, the question for me was, "Did I try to go back?"

I did my homework, and found out the truth claims of the LD$ church are false. So I never tried to go back.

I have a lot of respect for those like Cheryl who choose to leave without a foot kicking their ass out.

But I deserve a lot of respect for not ever trying to go back.

Any party involved in a legal transaction (and resignation is, in fact, a legal transaction, not a church transaction) has the right to verify by reasonable means that the transaction is legitimate and accurate.

LDS Inc has the right to verify that a resignation is legitimate and accurate. I doubt that a judge would find that a simple contact by the local bishop is unreasonable.

Yes, 5 people showing up at your door for a 'come to Jesus' moment is unreasonable, as was recently reported here on RFM. That's not what I said. A simple contact by the local bishop is not unreasonable.

You're assuming something that has yet to happen.

Joining a church is not the same as buying a house or agreeing to a financial arrangement. If it were, then the morg could automatically deduct tithing from our bank accounts until they decided a resignation was final.

People join and quit attending churches all the time. Just because a kid was dunked at age eight does not give that church legal rights over aging adults who might have sent in papers or not.

Simply staying away from a church for years and telling them to keep their distance legally means they have no right to impose their will on former members.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 10:51AM by Cheryl.

I was prompted by this thread to go over all my cult paperwork. While attempting to put faces on the many signatures contained therein, it suddenly occurred to me that a most relevant signature is noticeably absent on each document. MINE!

Sorry, Brother Of Jerry, but without a formal contract with my signature the cult has no legal standing. Unlike my dealings with financial institutions and such, there is not and never has been a formal contract between me and the cult. I don't recall ever wanting to be a mormon or expressing any desires along those lines. I do recall being forced to attend meetings by my parents, but I never did the endowment stuff and never paid any dues (tithing). I also never got a warm-fuzzy as promised so I reckon the cult didn't keep its end of our non-existent bargain either.

In my case, a formal resignation would serve as the only legal document that verifies my affiliation with the cult as it would be the only cult document with my signature on it.

Reason # 432 as to why I make the rules.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 01:46PM by Timothy.

It isn't MY responsibility to prove anything to the morg.

If they think I'm a mormon, let THEM prove it.

As an adult, I never paid tithing, never held a calling, never signed any mormon document, never attended meetings, didn't pay fast offerings, never invited locals or mishies into my home.

Instead, I told every mormon who called or showed up to stay away and tell the bish to keep them away. I sent back mailings unopened with rude notes saying I didn't want that junk defiling my mailbox.

Mormons are stupid if they think I'm one of them and that I need to take responsibility for their poor policies and paperwork.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 04:00PM by Cheryl.

A simple letter of confirmation is all that is needed, which is standard in the business world.

But let's be clear, what they're doing is not verification. They are attempting a hard sale to keep you from quitting, and holding your membership hostage over it.

The exact minute they verify that yes you did send them a letter of resignation, the coversation should be over, but it never is. That's why people insist on "no contact" in the first place.

Support site or not, we don't have to agree with everything said here. We belonged to an organization that required that. That's one of the reasons we left.

And mormons have every right to believe in golden plates and worship a child molester now living in the sky.

Cheryl wrote:

"**WE** don't have to come up with a way of figuring out if resignations are being turned in as jokes for fully active wardmembers. Morg paperwork is someone else's problem."

I did not, in any way, say that **WE** need to figure out how the Morg can prevent fake resignation letters. That is clearly the purview of the Membership Records department of the CoJCoLDS.

My point is that when the Membership Records department does, in fact, implement a reasonable procedure to detect such fraudulent letters, then it is disingenuous for RFM posters to take issue with and complain about that procedure.

I think it is amazing the way you got out of the church Cheryl.

I know why you feel the way you do because I did the same too, at 23 in l973-- no RFM, no google, no intellectual reason to leave, no support anywhere. I am more proud that I did that than almost anything else that has happened in my life because it made so many beautiful things possible.

I do not put that above anyone else's experience, but your post gave me chills because your exit is so close to mine and all these years later, the thrill of that moment when I knew it was all a lie has never diminished.

Good for you and good for all of us no matter how it happened.

Reminds me of an interview I saw with a prison inmate:

"The staff has 8 hours a day to figure out how to keep us from doing things like that. We have 24 hours a day to figure out how to get away with it."

Fake resigning for someone else may actually be a crime. I'm no legal expert but with identity theft laws, and the civil rights violation for the right to associate...

If such a thing were happening, it should be turned over to the police or FBI. At the very least this would get local press, let alone national and international press.

Why would we believe anyone that says this is happening at all if no injured parties actually exist?

LIKE *****

If I recall correctly, when I knew it was false I asked myself an inward question. Do I stay for my family, or do I risk my marriage and family relationships? Do I make a stand for my truth with the very real possibility of losing what is dear to me? I was AFRAID! My heart pounded at the very thought. I had butterflies and worry. Finally, I did it and endured whatever fallout was to come. I am proud of myself and thankful to be able to see what was false and risk it all to say so.
I consider myself a hero. No one sees me this way yet but time will tell if it makes a difference in the life of my daughter or husband.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 03:34PM by suckafoo.

Thank you Cheryl. And you too. If it weren't for you and other brave souls I would not have had the courage.