According to the network, the below is the first in a series. I wonder if any ex-Mormons will be interviewed.

http://thin.npr.org/s.php?sId=151681248&rId=2&x=1

Teresa's story is very similar to many I have read on this very board with the possible exception that her family, unlike some current Mormon families, continues to support her, despite her non-belief.

>Her secret is taking a toll, eating at her
>conscience as she goes about her pastoral
>duties week after week...

Sounds familiar. I spent a couple of summers attending a
class with a Methodist pastor who was going through this
evolution. She still had ministerial duties, all the while
that she was shedding layer after layer of Christian beliefs.

I think that it helped somewhat -- when she learned to
distinguish "faith" from "beliefs." Her basic trust in the
goodness and purpose of life and communities did not abate.
I'll give her that much...

Then again, way back in theological seminary I saw students
(adult ministers) returning to campus for refresher classes,
who had no faith and very little belief. I considered them
hypocrites, happy to prey upon the religious needs of others,
while they themselves looked upon their ministry as a sham.

Quite a few years have passed, since those days on campus.
So far as I can tell, my faith has continually increased.
My graduate degree in Christianity, I look back upon as an
artifact of searching. Once I found what I was looking for,
it became a meaningless scrap of parchment.

UD

Uncle Dale:

The basic problem I have with your argument is the (implied) starting point that everybody has to believe in something beyond themselves without any backing evidence. Religion, including Mormonism, trains us to believe things that are not true about how we got here and the world in which we live. More importantly, it trains us that belief/faith is more powerful than any evidence that can be amassed against it, and that therefore such evidence, no matter how good it is, is worthless, because faith/belief trumps any and all evidences.

The Bible which both Mormons and other Christians claim to be "the Word of God" is full of items that can be conclusively proven to be false. These include 1) Earth being created in 6 days; 2) the Garden of Eden story; 3) the Cain and Abel story; 4) the Tower of Babel story; 5) the Sodom and Gomorrah story; 6) what happened after Moses died and Joshua took over the leadership of the fleeing Jews in the "Promised Land"; 7) the advanced ages of early humans; 8) the creation of Egypt by Abraham's affair with Hagar; 8) the story of the birth of Jesus Christ; 9) the many supposed miracles that Jesus was said to have performed, among others.

blindguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uncle Dale:
>
> The basic problem I have with your argument is the
> (implied) starting point that everybody has to
> believe in something beyond themselves without any
> backing evidence.

Unless we as individuals are lucky enough to have really
remarkable parents, teachers and subdry significant others;
then -- yes, we have only ourselves to believe in.

As time goes by, given a half-way decent life, I've found
that most of us do find things to trust in, outside of our
own powers of manipulation and means of security.

But trust and belief are not necessarily the same thing.
There may be instances in which reliable trust grows out
of initial, unsubstantiated beliefs -- but I'd wager that
most unshakeable trust ("faith") grows out of experience.
A word that describes what I'm trying to say here, even
better than "experience" is "realization," but I know
that many people think something "real" that is not real.
So I don't try and use that word nonspecifically.

How do we grow, as sentient, rational beings, from beliefs
in things we are not certain are real, to trust in things
that we depend upon to be real?

If that is the question you are trying to get at, then I
suppose several thousand books have been written on it already.


> Religion, including Mormonism,
> trains us to believe things that are not true
> about how we got here and the world in which we live.

True. But so can Science -- until it gets around to
correcting its own errors. Perhaps what you are saying is
that religions, generally speaking, have no reliable means
by which they admit and correct their advertised untruths.
In the short term, I think that is absolutely true. In the
long run, I trust that the human species will evolve
socially and mentally beyond the confines of its various
religions. Some of those religions will try and play
"catch-up," in order to stay modern -- while others will
become social museums, for the ignorant and the gullible.
At least that is what I predict will happen, over time.


> More importantly, it trains us that
> belief/faith is more powerful than any evidence
> that can be amassed against it, and that therefore
> such evidence, no matter how good it is, is
> worthless, because faith/belief trumps any and all
> evidences.

Perhaps that is one good reason to "graduate" out of the
confines of religion, at some point in our lives. I do not
necessarily mean totally abandoning membership in some
particular religion -- but at least discovering freedom
from its restrictions. I do not suppose that a village of
enlightened thinkers in, say, Afghanistan, could suddenly
renounce Islam next week, and expect to survive. But, like
I said, I have hopes that our species will not always be
trapped by the "training" you mention.


>
> The Bible which both Mormons and other Christians
> claim to be "the Word of God" is full of items
> that can be conclusively proven to be false. These
> include 1) Earth being created in 6 days; 2) the
> Garden of Eden story; 3) the Cain and Abel story;
> 4) the Tower of Babel story; 5) the Sodom and
> Gomorrah story; 6) what happened after Moses died
> and Joshua took over the leadership of the fleeing
> Jews in the "Promised Land"; 7) the advanced ages
> of early humans; 8) the creation of Egypt by
> Abraham's affair with Hagar; 8) the story of the
> birth of Jesus Christ; 9) the many supposed
> miracles that Jesus was said to have performed,
> among others.

Perhaps one of the steps on the path to evolution out of the
confines of religion, is for a person to decide to examine
and employ "scripture" in a critical sense, rather than in
mindless acceptance.

That is a tall order -- I know. We cannot expect it of a
ten-year-old, nor of a senile or mentally challenged person.
But at least some of us must (I think) struggle to gain a
view of "scripture" that does not hold us in bondage to
past social restrictions.

The original posting spoke of an educated, dedicated
"minister," who was well upon the way to becoming an atheist.
So that was the "target audience" I was trying to keep in
mind, as I opined here.

Perhaps the lady will join the Unitarian-Universalists - who
include atheist members and even atheist pastors. Or, perhaps
she will become a materialist, or a Marxist, or a nihilist.
We each have our unique choices and destinies before us.

As for myself, I've come a long way from my days as a student
pastor at University Baptist Church in Columbus, Ohio. It was
not an easy experience -- "graduating" from Christianity; but
I am happier, more fulfilled, and -- I think -- more optimistic
than ever, that we live in a good world.

UD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh_eaZn_s9U



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2012 09:20PM by saviorself.

It was an interesting interview. For me, I was surprised that she didn't realize what would happen - the reaction of the congregation and her family.

Maybe it's that I've read so many stories over the years of people leaving the mormon church, and losing so much.

With that said, her courage is amazing. Good for her for living with integrity, despite the consequences.