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Posted by: dodo ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 12:43AM

THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM

Translated from the papyrus, by Joseph Smith

A translation of some ancient records, that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. -- The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the book of Abraham, written by his own hand upon papyrus. See history of the church, vol. 2. pp.235,236,348-351

1974 edition of triple combo -- pub. LDS church


Now that is very clear, and leaves little, if no room for interpretation as to the claim that the Book of Abraham is a "translation" of a account written by Abraham himself. In the history of ancient records this is perhaps one of the most significant claims ever made.

Any Moronmon could make these observations with 10 minutes of lesson prep for any youth or gospel doctrine class. However we must have a lower standard for a Apostle and special witness for the lord.

Jeff Holland said the following to a BBC news man when asked about the Book of Abraham, and the translation and the papyrus --

" All i'm saying, all i'm saying, is that what got translated, got translated into the word of God.The vehicle for that ---- I do not understand, and don't claim to know and know no Egyptian "

When it comes to "lying for the Lord" I think they have it mostly right. The fault is that it is not the Lord they are lying for, Therein lies the fraud, their "kingdom" is of their own making and their power is for their own comfort, their money is for empire and their disdain is for truth.

p.s. notice how B of A is introduced in later editions and now explained as a "dream" or "vision" and not a translation.

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Posted by: none ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 07:19AM

Actually, lds.org still has it to this day as "a translation of papyri containing the writings of Abraham". But an apostle doesn't know where/how it came?

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 11:50PM

He's read books you know, but apparently not the book of Abraham!

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 09:20AM

He ain't no dodo, you know.

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Posted by: Emma's Flaming Sword ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 11:05AM

some mysterious vehicle (whatever that means). Yet apologists all go to great lengths to prove that there is some missing papyri.

They can't even get on the same page when making up excuses for this stuff.

And dodo head should be able to give the best explanation with his exalted status.

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Posted by: canadianfriend ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 10:23PM

Maybe the vehicle was a flying saucer.

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Posted by: brian ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 11:34AM

Don't have any new editions and am not getting any. What is the new introduction and how has it changed?

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 12:37PM

They that in the face of such obvious difficulty that it is foolish to stand firm behind their original position. They know there is no way to properly defend it except to make up excuses and rationalization...not because they believe it, but because they must protect Joseph Smiths reputation.

Too bad so much of LDS specific theology has been based directly upon such an obvious fallacy.

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Posted by: Chicken'n'Backpacks ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 04:03PM

I'd like to know what baboons and jackals on the facsimiles have to do with god, heaven & Abraham.

Just thinkin' out loud...

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Posted by: pres ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 05:47PM

so is Holland just pretending, as are all of the other well educated folks that remain in the "church" or is he really just a plane old DODO?

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Posted by: schmendrick ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 06:35PM

One thing I don't understand is despite backpedaling and new revelation and "I don't know"ing and de-emphasizing and prophets-are-still-human and all that, the one thing I haven't seen (and please point me in the right direction if it's to be had) the Church actually say "that doctrine that was taught by so-and-so was mistaken / in error / wrong."

Why can't it admit this? Has it ever?

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Posted by: schmendrick ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 11:25PM

Oh and stealth editing. Forgot about the stealth editing.

"Orwellian" is really the best word to describe TSCC.

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Posted by: guynoirprivateeye ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 08:17PM

That was as close to an apastolic admission of being False as I've ever seen, and likely as I ever will.

Any closer to an outright admission 'mea culpa' would be Over the Edge for ChurchCo/ LDS Inc.

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Posted by: scarecrowfromoz ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 09:51PM

I thought everyone of the Big 15 were considered Profits, Seers, and Revelators. Why can't he just translate it himself, or at least ask Tommy if it is correct and to do a translation? Have him get Joe's peepstone out of the museum and give it a try.

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Posted by: dodo ( )
Date: April 16, 2012 10:20PM

It seems to me that a prophet and seer would jump at the chance to bear his testimony regarding the sacred nature of the Book of Abraham . What a chance to show support for Joseph Smith and reaffirm the declaration that the papyrus was written by Abraham himself and "translated" by a prophet by the power of God.

Or, maybe even the GA's are starting to realize that many people know that the papyrus is a typical funeral story buried with most important Egyptians of that time .

Not to mention why would the great Hebrew leader write his story in Egyptian? Hugh Nibley, John Gee and Daniel Peterson have all tried a series of mental magic tricks to justify the confusion about the papyrus. All of their attempts to explain away the plain truth are a joke.

One reason why it is so important to realize that the Book of Abraham was made up out of the imigination of Sidney rigdon and Joeseph Smith is that the text provides justification for the rascist doctrine of the Utah church. And Smith wrote in the idea of Abraham being told to lie by GOD himself, which Smith then used to justify his lies about polygamy.

They made it all up as they went along, and the discovery of the original papyrus in 1967 would have ended the cult if there was one honest man in the SLC leadership.

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Posted by: reinventinggrace ( )
Date: April 17, 2012 12:45AM

I wish that after Holland gave the "I don't know how it was translated" line, the interviewer would have said

"Now, Brother Holland, please open your scriptures to the Book of Abraham and read the subheading just before Abraham 1:1..."

RG

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Posted by: beeblequix ( )
Date: April 17, 2012 01:35AM

1. See this online lie detector:
www .calculatorslive .com /Online-Lie-Detector-Test.aspx

2. See this clip of Mr. Holland in the interview:
www .youtube .com /watch?v=ws4vgihE3Q0&feature=related
(remove spaces to make url work)


"Online Lie Detector Test (Use this Online Lie Detector to catch the liar red handed)
Ask the question and then view the person for one minute. Watch out for indicators and catch the liar. Instructions mentioned below."

Here's how I scored him (I only watched the part up to Mitt Romney ~ 47 seconds):

How many times in a minute did the person blink: 9
Within the 1 minute, did the person scratch his head: no
How many times in the minute did the person fidget with arms, hands, or fingers: 6
Did the person touch his mouth or face during the 1 minute: yes
Was the person avoiding eye contact during the 1 minute: sometimes yes -- when his voice started expressing more emphasis he had difficulty with eye contact
sometimes no -- his voice returned to normal emphasis his eye contact and was able to keep eye contact.
Did the person change his tone or speak in a higher pitch on hearing the question:
yes -- higher pitch during Book of Abraham diatribe.
His voice's pitch dropped very low when asked about whether Joseph was convicted of being a conman.
His voice assumed a more normal-sounding pitch when describing the difficulty of living in frontier America.

Results:
According to the lie detector, the person is lying. The chances of the person lying are 75 Percent. Please read below to understand what the online lie detector results mean and how to interpret them.

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Posted by: Alex71ut. (not logged in) ( )
Date: April 17, 2012 02:00AM

When stumped the TBMs will play a new set of cards and try to ignore he fact that their religion is bogus. "well its all about Jesus". Or "what about your family". Blech.

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Posted by: delt1995 ( )
Date: April 17, 2012 03:48AM

Poor Elder Jensen lost composure. When pressed on camera by an inteligent and well informed journalist to explain God's only Restored Church and it's history and doctrines.

In the past journalists would politely accept any diversions a relgious leader gave, due to the principles of religious freedom. Since people are interested in how Romney thinks and his past, expect journalists to demand anwers. At that moment Jensen realized how ridiculous and duct-taped his answers sounded he panciked.

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