MJ was asking about this in another thread.

I don't remember anyone claiming this, but MJ was very concerned that he get an answer to this question and then the thread closed.

Maybe someone can help him out.

Again, I don't remember anyone claiming the answer to this specifically, but MJ would like to know the answer to this question if it can be answered.

Guilt?

The people I origionally asked to question of.

How does that work?

Does that mean that the only thing that contributes to our culture is Sumarian?

Unless we find an earlier civilization?

So, if Christianity did not create a particular contribution to culture, it should not be credited with the contribution.

If I did not create something, I do not take credit for creating it no. I think that taking credit for creating something I did not create would be a lie, you? I would say to do so would be imoral, guess your Christian values say otherwise.

You are the one advocating that our values are of Christian origin, and in the originating from the source of Christianty,

Do you think if Christianity had died out--it never became a cultural force--would the world and your life specifically be better of for it? How?

From the reading I have done, the big taboo about homosexuality came from the Judeo-Christian religions.

I do not need to speculate as to the what if's to lay the current problem where it belongs, with Christianity.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 11:39PM by MJ.

It was poorly worded but the phrase "the big taboo" was ment to indicate SCOPE, not actuall origin of dislike for homosexuals. It was Christains that made it as big of a taboo as it is, not that they were the first to make it a taboo.

Only seems fair.

I have not said what Robert should or should not do.

Two can play that game.

Robert and I seem to be coming to an understanding, so what is your problem? Why are you trying to make this about something going on between Robert and I when we are actually coming to an understanding?

I still don't see where I am making this about Robert being mad at anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2012 12:29AM by MJ.

Especially about this thing between you, Robert, and anger.

Your argument dealt with not contributing things to Christianity unless christianity originated them. But you have no problem attributing naughty things to Christianity when christianity didn't originate them.

Doesn't make any sense.

Follow the sub thread, you know, remember what you wrote from post to post.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,475520,475690#msg-475690

It was you that made this about being mad. I am angry at what christianity is doing TODAY, not what they did 2000 years ago. The anger, the concept YOU BROUGHT UP, is not about what CHristianity contributed, I never made that claim or connection., It is no wonder you are confused, I am not the one that brought up the gay issue and I am not the one that brought up being mad over the gay issue. I never connected being mad or the gay issue to the point of origional contributions made by Christiany, but you somehow have the mistaken idea that I have.

And I remember that.

That's not why I was confused.

It was because you were being confusing and not making any sense.

From MJ's point of view, I don't see why he should allow Christianity validity at all if Christians and Christianity invalidate him as a person.

I don't feel that way or see things that way, but I'm not in MJ's shoes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2012 12:06AM by robertb.

They are two different issues. Christianity has done much that should have damaged its own validity, much of which really does not make me angry. The true anger only comes from Christiany trying to push its morality onto me.

There are other religions that I am not "mad" at that I see no validity in. I can also be mad at someting I do see validity in. Seeing validity in and being mad are two different issues.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2012 12:18AM by MJ.

So, how would being able to identify (or not) a unique Christian contribution help your struggle against such Christians and Christianity?

You brought it up, MJ. That is why I asked.


"All I can say is that the people that are fighting to take away my rights are CHRISTIAN or claim to represent Christains or Christain values. .

From the reading I have done, the big taboo about homosexuality came from the Judeo-Christian religions.

I do not need to speculate as to the what if's to lay the current problem where it belongs, with Christianity."

In my opinion any discussion you have about Christianity has at its heart your fight for equal rights. I fully agree you should have them, too.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,474959,475236#msg-475236

Christianity left us a horrible legacy on sexuality, women's rights, and, of course, gay rights.

It may not have been the main topic of conversation, but MJ did bring it up

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,474959,475236#msg-475236

Christianity left us a horrible legacy on sexuality, women's rights, and, of course, gay rights.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,474959,475236#msg-475236

Christianity left us a horrible legacy on sexuality, women's rights, and, of course, gay rights.

It's the only thing that comes to mind. :-)

I guess music theory would have eventually developed, and music would have at some point been polyphonic. However, we can contribute that to uniquely Christian people. Agreed.

The Popemobile!

;-)

spaghetti oh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Popemobile!
>
> ;-)

Funny hats.

I'm not an original poster on the thread in question, but if you define culture as, "The shared patterns of behaviors and interactions, cognitive constructs, and affective understanding that are learned through a process of socialization," then there would be many things that have come from Christianity.

How about all the symbolism of crosses for one?

I’m most likely not even Christian, so I don’t really have a dog in this fight.

The Julian calendar and the genetics work of Fr. Gregor Mendel. Much of the Western art and architecture of the middle ages. The Magna Carta, which used Christian language and was formulated on Christian principles.

The Julian calendar was instituted by Julius Ceasar who lived and died before Jesus was born.

True but the Gregorian calendar was a modification of the earlier Julian calendar.

The Magna Carta was a rebellion against the "divine rights of kings", rebelling against a Christian institution would hardly be called a Christian contribution.

I have seen it argued that because artists could only do religious artwork, that their creativity was actually stiffled. That said, great art and architecture is not at all unique to Christians.

I also think it quite disinginuous to atribute Mendel's work to Christianity.

Calanders are also not a unique contribution. Other cultures had calaners, some more accurate.

Christians in the ancient Roman Empire took care of widows, orphans,the poor, and the sick. They were in large part responsible for the establishment of hospitals in the Empire. The willingness of Christians to care of the sick was a factor in the growth of Christianity in the Empire as Christians had higher survival rates than pagans.

Studing the medical history of Egypt shows very sophisticated care for the sick and enjured well before Christianity.

Still, not a unique contibution, they my have expanded the scope, but that does not make it a unique contribution



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 10:52PM by MJ.

Certainly there was care of the sick predating Christianity. However, the establishment of hospitals for the public, systematic training of caregivers, and systematic treatment of patients is a *qualitative* as well as a quantitative difference from earlier practices. Care of the sick was driven by the Christian requirement to care for the poor and the sick.

From Wikipedia:

"The declaration of Christianity as accepted religion in the Roman Empire drove an expansion of the provision of care. Following First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. construction of a hospital in every cathedral town was begun. Among the earliest were those built by the physician Saint Sampson in Constantinople and by Basil, bishop of Caesarea in modern-day Turkey. Called the "Basilias", the latter resembled a city and included housing for doctors and nurses and separate buildings for various classes of patients.[17] There was a separate section for lepers.[18] Some hospitals maintained libraries and training programs, and doctors compiled their medical and pharmacological studies in manuscripts. Thus in-patient medical care in the sense of what we today consider a hospital, was an invention driven by Christian mercy and Byzantine innovation.[19] Byzantine hospital staff included the Chief Physician (archiatroi), professional nurses (hypourgoi) and the orderlies (hyperetai). By the twelfth century, Constantinople had two well-organized hospitals, staffed by doctors who were both male and female. Facilities included systematic treatment procedures and specialized wards for various diseases.[20]"

I also would point out that the fact that treatments were systematic and patients were organized into wards by disease, there was some scientific thinking going on.

It does not give credit for the CREATION OF.

Again, even by the evidence you poisted, not a UNIQUE contribution, only the EXPANSION of an existing contribution. And just because the article says they built care facilities, does not equate to them being the FIRST culture to do so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 11:08PM by MJ.

Honest question: Who else has a savior who died for the sins of the world? I know resurrection is not unique. Cross as a symbol? The earliest Christians used the fish as a symbol.

I like it when lots of the holidays line up, like Easter and Passover this year. Orthodox Easter was only one week off.

And that is what any "Die for <cause>" is.

above my pay grade.

the present is difficult enough to understand, the past is nearly impossible.

Gospel music. Which arguably lead to dixie land, Blues, Jazz, Rock n' Roll . . . .



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 11:58PM by thingsithink.

only to a very few people like myself. John Coltrane would likely be noise to you. For me and my crew, its the beginning and the end. Nothing to question, nothing to dispel, nothing to argue over, nothing to doubt.

So, Christiany contributing a new style of music isn't any sort of ground shaking contributio, not like say, democracy or the like.

Ground shaking for a small segment of the population. It's a small club and ground shaking is an understatement. Actually, its probably a pretty big club now that I think about it. It probably unwittingly includes the person who started this thread - Raptor.

Actually, the christian angle was just a component. The church was their creative outlet i think.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2012 12:38AM by thingsithink.

I think I've been insulted but I'm laughing my ass off. Thanks. :)

Is this a contest now between what contributions are the better from ancient cultures?