It is my third week deliberately not attending church after turning in my temple recommend and asking the SP to be released from the Stake YM presidency.

The reason I'm posting is that my wife has been called to meet with both the SP and the bishop in the same meeting. I've never heard of such a meeting before and was wondering if anyone else has.

-Aaron

They're onto you.
It has to be about your "apostasy". What else?

Beware:
They may arbitrarily accuse you of adultery and porn addiction

I hope you post the followup

If DW is onto this tactic, she'll tell them that she won't discuss ANYTHING regarding the marriage, only thumbnail of family matters.

BEWARE:

ChurchCo leaders DELIGHT in being a wedge between spouses when one of them tips away from it/them.

They tried this with DH and I. They were basically trying to turn him against me. He left as soon as he realized what the agenda was.

That was the final straw for him.

I don't get why your wife would allow herself to be summoned to such a meeting.
Is she on their side or on yours?

Moreover, wtf do they expect her to do to push you back into Obedience to their Authoritay?
Kick you out of bed, refuse to cook, take away privileges?

It's one thing if they felt they needed to speak with you personally but leaning on your wife and trying to put a wedge between a married couple is hitting a new low.

Have a serious talk with your wife and ask her not to respond to their devious little game plan.

Glo Wrote:
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> leaning on your wife
> and trying to put a wedge between a married couple
> is hitting a new low.


Unfortunately, this is not a "new low." It's been going on for years and years. It's one of the most offensive and disgusting practices that the "church" engages in.

It's terrible the way they force spouses to choose sides.

This happened to me. My wife was BYUer and so they thought they could influence her against me.

We got a call from the Stake Executive Secretary to meet with the SP and when she went there the Bishop was also in the room. She hadn't been told the Bishop would be there too, so it was 2 on 1. There are obviously variations of the SP/Bishop meeting...

They went to her because I hadn't been on a mission, etc etc.
She promptly told them where to stick it and wasn't going to be tagged teamed. She walked out after giving them 5 minutes to make jackwagons of themselves...

It was just another nail in the coffin.

Aaron 85, you may need to go with her, they will start asking what they can do to help and express their concern (pity, astonishment, disgust) that anyone would move away from LDS inc. without being a sinner, deranged, etc. They will put you in a very negative light, and it will help if you can be there to defend your decisions. She may be (probably is) a very strong woman, but you got her into this, and your reasons for distancing yourself from the church are valid. The LDS Church is the biggest threat to your marriage. The church is not true. You can walk in there with enough information to sink any argument - ask them if the church was not true, would they want to know? Up to this point, you have just minded your own business, but now they are on your turf.

They want to find reasons to discipline you. They will grill your DW to find out your sins.

This is why RFM is so great. I really thought that this kind of thing happened to me and my husband.

We had no idea this is a technique that they use. It's disgusting. We realized when we got into a fight after one of our interview sessions that this might be going on. We stopped, and looked at each other, What were fighting about? We were on the same page. IT was an aha moment.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 07:03PM by aaron85.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 07:05PM by aaron85.

And don't say a word to SP or bishprik. Maybe even position yourself so you're somewhat out of view of the doorway, so as they cheerfully and warmly welcome her into her brainwashing session, you can pop around the corner and give them a nice, vigorous handshake and all smiles. I'll bet you'll see them turn white.

My wife drags me to just about every doctor appointment she has, so I see nothing inappropriate for a spouse to attend a meeting with such dear leaders.

Alternatively, if your wife is game, perhaps she could wear a wire.. that'd be fascinating to listen to on Youtube.

Re record it. They will inevitably trash you. If enOugh people record and release these spousal abusing sessions, the crutch will b forced to change their. Cultish ways.

aaron85 - please return and report - that is all, thank you.

Well, I didn't go with her, but we had a good chat afterword.

My wife is still very much a TBM and she feels that studying the things that have caused me to change my view about the religion, that was very much apart of our lives, would be damaging to what she feels is so good and right for her.

When I began my separation from the church about three months ago, I tried to get my bishop and SP to review the arguments presented on Momonthink. My bishop said that he felt the spirit of apostasy as he glanced at the info. He also said that he once had a man ask him that if he could prove to my bishop that JS was not a prophet and the BOM was not true, would that cause my bishop to leave. My bishop's response was, "I doesn't matter if they can be disproved, I base my faith on what the spirit has testified to me of." At the end of the meeting he thanked me for my service in the ward, and said that he would always be there for me to talk to if I would like.

A few weeks later I met with my SP to asked to be released from my Stake calling. He said that he had tried life outside the church before his mission and that it doesn't lead to happiness. He also said that he had run across anti-mormon rhetoric on his mission 20 years ago in California, the anti-mormon capital of the world, and that it didn't affect him because he had a testimony of the gospel (implying that I haven't had a testimony of the gospel or that sin has caused it to be weekend). I reassured him that I was in the process of trying to strengthen my testimony, which led me to my decision to leave the church. He then repeated several times to me that there was something much deeper in my life that I was not telling him about, which I would need to resolve with the Lord. He also thanked me for my service and wished me the best in life and with my Wife and child.

My wife said that her meeting today was mostly about her. She asked them if her children would still be sealed to her if I decided to have my name removed. They told her that our daughter would be, but that any children born after I had my name removed would be given the chance to decide if they wanted to be sealed to her during the millennium.

She told them about her experience in the temple a month ago in which she received the answer that she should stay with me. They told her to follow whatever the Spirit told her to do.

She talked to them about me possibly drinking in the future. They told her that she didn't need to support that, or put up with anything that made her uncomfortable. They also asked her about porn; she reassured them -- whether they believed it or not -- that that was not my reason for leaving.

Overall, my decision to leave has increased my wife's faith and determination to "live the gospel". However, we, as a couple, have also strengthened greatly in our communication skills and I am hopeful that she will eventually gain courage to take an honest look at the history of the church and what it has become.
The meeting helped her feel love and support, but so have I, and in time she will realize that I have not been deceived by Lucifer's angels, but that there is some serious problems with what the church proclaims to be the "One True Church".

Thanks for all of your support and stories. This forum has been one of many supports to me throughout the most difficult time of my life.

-Aaron

Aaron wrote - they asked her about porn...

How DARE they ask her about YOUR porn issues, if any? And what, is porn the current "go to" sin that Churchco leaders immediately jump to?

I hope you and your wife can survive all this with your family intact.

Be careful about her deferring to priesthood authority for advice. It is bad for your marriage and reinforces the idea to her that they get an opinion about what she does.

In reality, she knows just as much as they do about "the mysteries" of God (etc.) but has been conditioned to believe they should counsel her on everything. As long as this happens, it undermines your marriage. You two should be making decisions about things together, not allowing some third partner in the marriage to decide.

Her running off to male church leadership is the church's way of emasculating you and keeping her conditioned. Ask her how she would feel if the roles were changed. How would she feel if you went to female church leaders to get advice about how to run your life when she is sitting at home willing to be your partner and confidant.

I don't know how else to go about it, that is, letting her seek advice on life an marriage from her "priesthood leaders", since she still believes that they receive revelation from God on what is best for her.

For now I think that letting her meet with them is the best course of action for me to take. If I don't let her meet with them, that will hurt our relationship also. Perhaps down the road she will get a bishop/SP that is more aggressive in the actions that she needs to take with me, and perhaps she will realize that her "temple revelation" about us staying together trumps the "priesthood revelation" that they would give to her.

Bishops all work off the same blueprint, but some are a lot more reasonable in their approach, and some who are asses really. Some are wise about human relationships, and some know nothing, and don’t even know that they don’t know anything; but they have the Heman, “I have the power” thing going in abundance.

Other than the porn question, you might have gotten lucky with a decent guy being the Bishop. A Bishop that was a great guy left our ward a year before we left the church.

The new guy was an ass. In my particular case, it helped. My wife followed me out about six months behind me. It would have been much harder for her if the nice guy was still the Bishop. It wasn’t nearly as hard with the ass for a Bishop.

aaron85 Wrote:
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> She talked to them about me possibly drinking in
> the future. They told her that she didn't need to
> support that, or put up with anything that made
> her uncomfortable.

Does that advice cut both ways? Is it good advice for a husband, the traditional Mormon leader of the household to hot have to "support" anything the wife does that makes him uncomfortable? Like going to Church and taking his children to the Church?

There's two things I like about the Church: it's face.

I was married in the temple age 18.
ex' age 27.
Remarried toa nevermo, we had 2 children.

A general authority told me my children would be considered born under the covenant, and sealed to my first husband, who doesn't even know they exist.

When it comes to the sealing thing, they don't have answers. Divorce and people leaving the church has thrown them a bag of questions they weren't prepared for.

You could ask someone else the same question about sealing of children, and get a completely different answer.

Since it's a made up fairy tale. It doesn't matter. My point is, their answer is nothing to get upset about. Your wife can ask every leader she comes in contact with. She will most likely get a different answer from everyone.

I sometimes wonder if they give the answer they think will scare the person/s back into obedience. If the wife was a true believer, she might nag her husband a little harder if she thought her children would be "lost."

I've seen several posts before on this board that other women were told their kids with present husbands would always be sealed to their first husband no matter what, just as you were told. So I assume that's the official TSCC stance.

So since I will be in the terestrial, telestial, or outerdarkness because I have denied the "truthfulness of the gospel", are my children that were born under the covenant put up for celestial adoption/auction?

That may be what they say, but they're making it up as they go along.

My kids are in their late 20's. We have good relationships. The thought that they would spend eternity with some guy they have never met is so stupid, it boggles the mind.

The church is caught between a rock and a hard spot because of past declarations and rules.

They forgot all about love, relationships, bonding, and all of the things that really matter in the human experience.

Their rules were all made to control and manipulate people for life. The person who made the rules (JS and BY predominantly) knew nothing about love and relationships. Especially when it came to children. They never anticipated that people would have access to the information that we have. They didn't see how things would be in the future. They made rules to fit what they wanted then.

A few decades ago the party line was that your wife and children would be given to a "worthy" man in the CK afterlife.

But they've been running doctrine through the shredder so much lately that you can't count on anything.

There is a huge doctrinal retreat--line upon line, precept upon precept.

Pretty scary when they say that no amount of evidence, logic, or reason will deter them from their brainwashing. : 0



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 07:29PM by Moroni Marten.

I had this happen to me about 8 years ago with both the Bishop and Stake President ganging up on me. That inqusition burnt me but good I will never meet with either again no matter who they are! The evil of these two individual was beyond comprehension.

I am also concerned about establishing a pattern that she will be going to church leaders with her life concerns instead of you.

This is completely unacceptable and is an insertion of a third party into the intimate bond between a man and his wife.

Can't you ask her to honor her personal revelation by working things out with you first, giving you a chance, especially if you promise to completely respect her belief level, no matter where it is or where it goes (or doesn't go).

Don't let this get started. There was a woman whose bishop assigned the Elders Quorum president to be her priesthood "head." Soon she was having meetings with him to discuss her needs, including intimate ones. Just a guy! A neighbor! Not trained in any way, shape, or form to help someone or to maintain an appropriate distance. That woman ended up divorced and later told her husband the EQ pres told her she deserved to be with a faithful man and would be assigned to someone else anyway, so she might as well enjoy the blessings of marriage to a faithful LDS man in this life.

Beware.

Anagrammy

When it all first went down, she was considering divorce pretty seriously. I knew full-well that that was a possibility when I broke the news to my wife. Out of my hopeful ignorance/frustrating anger, I tried to explain to her the doctrine of eternal marriage; that she would be paired with a "worthy priesthood holder" in the next life.

I thought that by helping her to realize this doctrine she would either leave me and we could get on with our lives, or she would immediately start studying the things that I had, so that we could be on the same page.

There were some very rough waters for a month or so, and she still is trying to figure the new me out. But she is working toward being more open and eventually, little-by-little, I think she will start to see the truth.

For right now I think I need to let her go her own pace and give it time.

I'd love to get a call to meet with the bish or sp...and can hear it now...."you need to become active again so that your wife can be converted (she's Catholic)"....NOT FUCKING LIKELY!!

To me, I would have asked my wife if she wanted to go see the SP & Bish. Not if she "should" go. Not if "they" wanted her to go, but, if SHE wanted to go.

And then I'd respect her decision.

Since she DID go, I'd have asked her how it went (which is what you apparently did), and left it at that. If SHE wanted to volunteer information, then so be it.

She is respecting your decision to be inactive, and so you should respect her decisions.

I know it's hard to pull yourselves out of the CULTure of Mormonism, but it's what you should really do.

Also, if you both love each other honestly (meaning separate & apart from being LDS or not being LDS)..... then I believe there is a way for your marriage to continue. It might evolve in some ways, but it can continue. You just need to find out how it can work.

Finally, if I were you, I'd refuse to meet with any LDS representative, and make your reasons clear to your wife.

Good luck!

Sounds like what we in the military called a "come to Jesus meeting." Subject: You.

loving, caring husband. You have found out some truths and you are processing it. Slowly ask her to ponder some questions you have and again, be patient. I hope you can work through this. Good luck!

So...are you okay with your wife going, on her own to meet with two men who are going to do their best to keep her in the Church even if it is at the expense of your marriage?

My advice, don't announce it but go with her and attend the meeting. See what they say then...

I thought that when a husband and wife married that they pledged to "forsake all others"!

...except, of course, the Bishop, SP, Visiting Teachers, Home Teachers, GA's, EQP, LDS Addiction Recovery folks, TBM In-laws ...

Hm. Great point. Useful, too.

Here's the basic problem:

Supposedly, God runs the Mormon Church through Direct Revelation. Therefore: The church simply HAS TO BE TRUE. IT IS PERFECT BECAUSE GOD IS PERFECT!

For that reason -- any problems that arise must be the MEMBER'S fault. You can't blame God!

So, who else is there?

That's why all the church's problems are absorbed by the membership. Remember the phrase "God's church is perfect, but He only has imperfect people to run it." For this reason, Mormon members end up "atoning" for the sins of their fraudulent religion -- a religion started by sexual predators and sanctimonious, greedy, con men.

Mormonism is a religion that has become overly-abundant with "problems" that now need such member "explanations".

So, everything turns back on the membership. They become sacrificed to maintain the perfection of the church.

When a marriage is in trouble because one spouse needs to be deeply honest about their feelings and discoveries, the church's response is that the spouse must have a "moral problem". How many times have we seen this?

The church creates "guilty victims" in order to save itself!

That's why the following was reported in this post:

"They also asked her about porn; she reassured them -- whether they believed it or not -- that that was not my reason for leaving."

That's also why: "We apostates leave the church, but we won't leave it alone." We are tired of the church calling us immoral, and dishonest, and unrighteous -- when, in fact, it is the Mormon Church ITSELF that is the fraudulent, guilty party!

Every day of the week family and friends become divided by the church, so that the church can remain "true".

We are fighting back for a reason.

It's similar to Parental Abuse.



(Also see; "No Testimony, what's wrong with you" in Short Topics)