It’s been two months since I finally decided I could no longer believe in the LDS beliefs, due to years of evidence stacking up and eventually collapsing. It has been since the premiere of Hunger Games (I think 3 weeks) since everything blew up in my face with ALL my beliefs of God, Jesus and any kind of hereafter. I went to the movie full of questions and heartache. I came out of the movie with different questions and a different heartache. Who knew a movie would have such a profound affect on a person. The first time in my life I was questioning if there was even a God. It was a frightening thought and I realized then, I didn’t really know what was out there.

Since then I have been researching and searching. I continue to pray. I continue to teach my kids that there is a God of some kind. But I don’t really know any more. I have had many spiritual moments in my life. Moments which I cannot explain except to say they came from a higher power of some sort. I cannot exclude those moments, but for the first time ever I am looking at them with a far more open mind. I have no idea what to believe right now…

I have been going to a transitions out of Mormonism at a local Christian church. I am really enjoying what they are teaching me and I enjoy the support of leaving TSCC. I even bought me NIV bible to read and compare to my knowledge of the KJV bible. I am open to reading it and seeing what other beliefs are out there, but I still don’t know what I believe. I definitely know I am not ready to move into a different religion, even if it is just Christian. Mainly because I don’t know if I believe in everything they teach about Jesus. My whole life I thought I had a very firm testimony in Jesus (the only testimony that I ever really had), but now I wonder if that is even accurate. If Jesus was here on Earth, was he really the Son of God or was he just a man who was a lot more in tune to the higher power of the universe? Kind of like Buddha, Muhammed and Ghandi.

About 5 years ago I attended Impact Trainings in Bluffdale Utah. It was an amazing experience and it did cause me to look at life differently. I did not question TSCC at that time, but I did see my whole life and my beliefs in a different way. I owe it to those trainings for my easier transition out of Mormonism. I use the tools I learned to get me through each day, knowing I am a great person despite the lack of beliefs in my former religion. But I am still at this weird stage in all of this. I don’t know what to believe any more. It is kind of liberating and exciting, but scary thought. I am pretty sure there is something out there. Whether it is one God, many gods or just a higher power/energy I don’t know. I am willing to continue to research and search for new ideas and as time goes by I am sure just like everything else in my life the right beliefs will come into my life. It is just a strange place to be in right now.

I know there are many atheists, agnostics and Christians on this board and I am really open to most anything right now. I know 100% I do not want to go to a religion that is even remotely draining and restrictive like TSCC. But everything else I am open to. What is out there and what has everyone else done when they got to this point? Is it okay to just BE and not worry about any kind of religious belief? I’m not really asking for anyone’s permission! :) Just want some opinions and experiences.

Congrats on getting our! just remember it's no more plausible that Joseph Smith saw God than it is that Noah filled an arc full of animals. Be wary of any church because they're just as interested in controlling you. Perhaps not as forcefully, but as much.

The Bible is historically as rotten as the BoM.

A very wise woman told me that, at least for her, "if they have a book and a building, it's a business"

Now that business may be run with the best of intentions, but it is always difficult to know how much is good intentions and how much is just business. Coming from LDS, Inc. we all know that there is a fine line between intentions and business and it invariably moves in the direction of profits.

Doing nothing is okay. Doing something is okay. Whatever you think/feel is right for you and your family and that backs up your intrinsic values.

Congratulations and welcome to RFM!

geekchick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A very wise woman told me that, at least for her,
> "if they have a book and a building, it's a
> business"

that must be why Xtianity needed a latter day restoration because that lack luster New testament Jesus was always preaching outdoors! bathing in the river and generally pissing off the establishment priesthood by refusing to pay them for proper formally ritualized (Contrived Over priced ) version of normal stuff.

By the time MORmONS are done screwing with NT story, Jesus was being a conformist when He was baptized, instead of a rebel. NT Jesus must have ended up nailed to a cross by being a conformist too .... it makes sense to MORmONS!


MORmON jesus is doing much better ! god Knows MORmON Jesus has tons of buildings and real estate all over the place!




> Now that business may be run with the best of
> intentions, but it is always difficult to know how
> much is good intentions and how much is just
> business.
> Coming from LDS, Inc. we all know that
> there is a fine line between intentions and
> business and it invariably moves in the direction
> of profits.


SOme how that line isn't so fine anymore.
In fact its about 5 BILLION DOLLARS or a Luxury Mall in width now.


> Doing nothing is okay.

NO! NO! NO! you have to haul ass to the temple and save some dead ppl. (MEMBERSHIP DUES AND USAGE FEES REQUIRED!)
Dead people are waiting, you know!

Noahs story is one of my big issues with the bible. I always figured if I saw a huge ship get built and then 2 by 2 every species of mammal, reptilian, birds and insects began to fill it I would be intelligent enough to know to join them. I just don't believe people are generally that stupid. Plus how did all those animals possibly fit on any ship? The chemist I work with says that is his biggest issue because there is no possible way. But he still stays with TSCC.

The transition you are going through is rough and confusing. Don't jump into anything or burn any bridges right away. Take the time you need to figure things out before moving in whatever direction you see fit. It is absolutely OK to just BE. As for me, I went from TBM to atheist, but others make different choices based on their experiences, and that's fine too. Truth is truth, whether it is written in the bible, spoken by a wise person, or found in a fortune cookie. Once I stopped looking for truth from authorities, I was able to focus on the truth as it is. Now I find it everywhere. Who knew?!

Always wondered how he got polar bears and penguins...

whats up with that ?

and after the ark landed on the mountain top, how did the Koala's get to Ausralia? Any Koala I've ever seen would have curled up in the nearest tree for a nap.

... those of us in the zoo "biz" often discussed the problems at length.

Large land mammals, for example, aren't known for their mountain climbing skills.

The list grows exponentially once you really start thinking about it.

Timothy

niki77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it okay to just BE and not worry about any kind of religious belief?

Yes, it's okay to just BE. In fact, it's probably necessary. Give yourself a vacation from religious commitment. Think of it as a mental breather.

Our beliefs have no impact on what IS. For millenia people have believed in this god or that god, in Thor or Jupiter or Jehovah. It matters not in terms of what exists or does not exist. The world rambles on regardless. Our beliefs are just our way of trying to make sense of our world and how we interact with it.

Our beliefs do have an impact on HOW we live. You have to find a way to live that is satisfying to you, and even joyful, and that does not do undue harm to others. My guess is that you already have a well-formed sense of ethics (that granted, may want some tweaking. Drinking coffee, for instance, is not subject to moral evaluation.) You are not suddenly going to go out and start robbing, hitting, or killing other people. You know how to act. You are not rudderless.

Have confidence in yourself and take your time. Allow yourself the luxury of being a student of the world.

Ha ha Summer, we both posted approximately the same POV within a minute of each other, and both used the word luxury. Very weird coinkidink. I think that means it's twoo!

It's not only okay to just "be", I think it's the best course. It feels weird because, if your parents are like most mormons, we've never been allowed any leeway on what our personal religious beliefs were. The Mormon beliefs were drilled in and shoved down our throats. Give yourself the luxury of figuring out what YOU believe on your own timeline.

My I suggest that the one belief you have is a belief in yourself. The belief that you are a capable person that can and does get through lifes troubles.

Yes I am. The freedom feels great. Thanks MJ.

Grab a six-pack and throw in a Marx Bros. flick!

Always works for me!

Timothy

What's wrong with striving to live a fulfilling life? Strive to bring happiness and goodness to you and your fellow beings. I don't understand the need to have a "belief system" created by someone claiming to know god's will and creating a bunch of silly new rules. Promote goodness, leave the nonsense and silliness of fairy tales and myths.

Yes,yes yes!

At the local christian church we attended with DH's family on Easter, the pastor made some comment about how worthless life would be without Jesus.

The only thing I could think was "Why?" What does that really change? If I'm trying to be a genuine & nice person, why should that change if I'm not sure some guy lived thousands of years ago?

It's like they're admitting that some people can only be 'good' people if they're afraid of eternal retribution...

Look at it as an opportunity to rebuild from scratch what YOU believe, not what others have forced you to believe. Experiment, look around, meditate on it. Take all the time you want. Figure out what makes sense to you based on your personal values.

For me, I've had to reject most of Judeo-Christian teaching. Mostly because I never accepted the idea of "original sin" and the "fall of man". I don't believe in blood sacrifice to atone for sin - it strikes me as an incredibly bizarre idea that has somehow stayed alive through thousands of years of human history...I don't see how "God" would be swayed by ritualistic blood spilling.

I do believe in a creator-spirit, but I don't pray for blessings or worship it. I do follow Jesus' teachings to "love one another" cause that just makes a whole lot of sense for how to get along and a good general attitude to get through life.

I attended several different religious services while on my way out, and while I think it was good for me to have that exposure to other religious traditions, none of them really worked for me long-term. I like attending a local non-denominational Bible church occasionally on holidays, the Krishna temple is fun to visit, and the Unitarians are very accepting, but I don't get enough out of it to make it worth attending consistently. I used to really believe in a loving Jesus, and losing that emotionally was kind of sad...now I see him more like the Santa Claus myth. It's a nice story. I kind of got to a point where I'm OK with not really knowing if there is a God. Eventually I just got tired of the whole debate and it doesn't really affect my life very much anyway. What I believe in now is a kind of spirituality that's not easy to explain, because I really feel that there's more to life that just everyday observable things. Not in a supernatural way exactly, but the things that really matter are intangible - love, courage, and being true to yourself. For me those have replaced religion - or, to be honest, I think religion just co-opted those values all along. At this point I don't consider myself an atheist, because if you take the idea that "God is love" literally, well, I do believe in love. I don't like being categorized, especially since I have the right to change my beliefs at any time. To just BE - who needs anything more than that?

Thanks sexismyreligion! Exactly my thoughts. God is love. Is he the supreme being I always thought he was? I don't know and really I'm ok with that. I just really want to be ME. The person who has been pleading to jump out of these suffocating beliefs. Finally I feel free! It is a strange place to be but for now I guess I can live with that. Just like every change in life it takes time to get use to and settle in. I love reading everyone's comments!! Thank you very much!

Here is a book or two that helps you understand reality.
the Atheist's Guide to Reality by Alex Rosenberg
witty and logical.
then if your eyes can get uncrossed find The Echo Maker by Richard Powers that brings up some of the same points about the workings of the mind/brain only in beautiful fiction form.
enjoy, Librarian

*Disclaimer: I am an atheist. I understand and can appreciate theism as a philosophy, but I have little tolerance for religion.

From my own experience, I think I know a bit about how you're feeling. As a mormon you were taught that "the world" was a wicked, cruel, unforgiving place. Anyone who didn't hold tight to the iron rod was destined to drift into the darkness and drown.

Even if you've let go of mormonism, a teaching like that holds tight in your mind. It's hard to let go of the mentality that those who don't believe firmly in SOMETHING are going to get swept away. It's hard to avoid seeking an "absolute truth" to replace the one you feel you've lost. If mormonism isn't true, than something else must be, and it's scary to think that you might not find it.

But remember, not all who wander are lost. There isn't one solid, genuine, "absolute truth" hiding within a dark mist just waiting for you to bump into it and cling with all your life.

Think of all the people who claim to have seen Bigfoot, or the Loch Ness Monster, or Jesus' face on a piece of toast. First they believed that it was real, then they saw something they couldn't explain any other way and concluded that it was proof of what they believed. I think religion is the same way. After I left mormonism and the entire Abrahamic myth system, I went looking for something to take their place. I sat and wrote down the things I thought I probably still believed, then started looking around for a religion that matched. Guess what? There were none. I could have made one or two of them fit, sort of, if I was willing to ignore a few things. But I couldn't, not anymore. When I looked at the toast, I saw toast. Might be good, might fulfill a need, but not something to base life decisions on.

The only people who find things that don't exist are those who are seeking them. The rest of us aren't missing out on anything. If you're actively looking for proof of God, you'll probably find it somewhere. If that's something that is important to you then keep looking, but don't be surprised if you never find it.

You just have to decide which kind of life appeals to you. If you find searching for something more fulfilling, it might be worth it to shop around for a religion. If you believe that God exists but doesn't really care where/how you worship, as long as you're a good person, it might not be worth the hassle.

Thank you. I have been visiting RFM for fourteen years and your post is on my short list of the most incisive, intelligent, keen and meaningful posts that I have ever read here.

Thank you Judyblue, Your post help me also put many of my own feelings into perspective. Its amazing how many of us here echo the same thoughts and feelings as we journey out of Moronism.

Niki77, one fun thing to do is laugh at old beliefs... it can lighted things up and it's good medicine.

Since you mentioned Noah's Ark, I think you might like Ricky Gervais' bit about it; it's hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln64DYflGT4

Start with the basics, like the Golden Rule, and see how far you can go on just that. You might be surprised.

If you don't construct your very own collection of beliefs, then you're just following someone. Do that and you could end up trying to believe things that you actually don't. Been there, right?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 08:20PM by Stray Mutt.

Look at the world around you...see all the pleasures and experiences you've been denied as a TBM...have a glass of wine with dinner....sleep in on Sunday and then go out for a good cup of coffee.....good luck and welcome to the REAL world...

Niki77 - When it all fell apart for me, I felt like I had a hole and had to plug it. I frantically looked for another church. My husband reined me in and suggested I not swap something new in just to fill the space. To give it time, to search it out. Good advice.

One book I read - Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas by Elaine Pagels helped me. It is a bit of a thing to wade through, but what I found interesting was her prologue where she discusses some of the social needs for attending church. Also, throughout the book was a lot of the history of Christianity that I didn't know. The take away for me was that it was natural to want that "family of like minded people." I've had to develop friends outside the Church and carve out that niche. Also posting and reading here has been informative, humorous, and thought provoking. I feel among friends.

As I continued to look at churches and religions in general, I have become kind of jaded. I feel like any religious leader most likely was/is more like JS than anything else. Most religions have been historically sanitized, we have the faith promoting stories but not the real scoop. It is kind of like at a funeral when people say "She valiantly struggled through life" when they really mean "She was a loser, made stupid choices and pretty much deserved what she got." There are ugly details, but they get glossed over and repharased into pretty words. I think religion is the same. I'm no expert on Buddhism but I wonder what it was like to be Buddah's abandoned wife and son. Did they think he was wise and enlightened? Did it affect their view of themselves to be renounced? I wonder if Jesus was like JS, Koresh, Jeffs.... enjoying his power at the expense of women? I could go on...

Just Be. Try new things. Keep what is good, discard what is not, be your own best friend. Some days will be good, some days you'll be so pissed you want to rip someone's eyes out. It is normal. Good luck. I'm on the journey with you.

I suggest you read mythology to get away from the idea that you have to "decide" anything.

Religion was supposed to introduce the individual to personal spirituality. Along the way, they discovered they could sell the keys to the kingdom. And organized religion was born.

Many people connect to personal spirituality through nature and begin their personal exploration there. I like Buddhism but it is a religion that is more like a psychology. It has adherents (Buddhist geeks) who are not into it as a religion but rather as a creative muse and relaxation technique.

The point is that if you expose yourself to the reasons people have had these religious ideas, you will automatically create a larger self. Larger how? The Mormon you is a constrained version of you, pinched into a black/white judgment habit train. Expanding yourself into a curious, traveling, knowledge-seeking explorer of the spirit is a bigger more open you.

The idea that uncertainty is dangerous or wrong is one of the ways religious conmen sell their product. The simple truth is that no one knows. Your guess is as good as mine and since mine isn't very educated, let's go see what other people think helps them --and why.

Welcome to a most exciting world--and you have plenty of time!

Anagrammy

Thanks Anagrammy. I'm more curious than anything else. My mind has been wrapped around the Mormon god for so long, it is interesting to me to see what others did. I'm not looking to decide anything at this point. I want to just be right now. I don't want a new set of beliefs shoved in my face again. I'm not lost or even confused... Just curious. I'm a good person who contributes the best I can to the society around me and for now I am ok with that. I am excited for this new life of mine. At times it seems overwhelming and strange but for the most part very exciting.

Now it's time for you to become a grownup.

Thank you Dave the atheist for that profound thought. Last I looked I am already a grownup, but I appreciate your insight.

Santa Claus Goodbye

People of faith have a mindset that includes a need for certainty. If you need it, I can understand that. There are many, many faiths or philosophies that are non-judgemental and much more fulfilling to chose from.

Another way is to start from scratch. I have done this, and at present I'm agnostic. I have learned not to fear "NOT KNOWING."

If there is a god, I don't think he would want us to accept him on blind faith. I also think he'd want us to use reason to decide truth, not someone else's made-up stories or bronze-age writings.

I have learned a few things, among those are:
-Morality does not require religion.

-Atheists are actually as likely to be morally good as are religious people.

-Religion can be thought of the same way we think of art. Something that has beauty and meaning for many, but doesn't have to control your life. You should be able to freely pick and choose what things in it are of value to you personally.

The key is to take control of your own beliefs and build a philosophy that is yours, and yours alone. This freedom is wonderful, and I hope you can find it! Just take your time and be a bit skeptical about anyone offering a ready-made.

You need not worry about any of that right now. Let some time pass...like even two yrs. or so. YOU will figure it out. I don't know how old your kids are but what are you doing with them right now? If they go to a Christian church for the time being on some Sundays what is the harm. YOU did say you believe in Jesus...just not sure who he was. Other Sundays go on trips, hike, swimming, just enjoy the outdoors and the spendor of it all.

No religion should direct you as far as TIME or money goes - it should direct your actions (if you believe the foundational aspects of the religion). You have control of your time and money - not some organization. All the best to you as you slowly figure this out. Anyone who tells you THEY have the answer is just like the Mormon church. So I would ignore that.

I wrote this several years ago and repost it now and then with the hope it will be of some help. Making the transition out of Mormonism and creating a new identity is a big undertaking.

After Mormonism: New Story of Ourselves

In 1987, after 12 years of LDS membership, a mission, temple marriage, employment at the Missionary Training Center, graduation from BYU, a wife and four children, I found myself considering suicide. I became a Mormon in 1975, just out of high school. I had felt lost and suicidal, then too, in spite of having been accepted the colleges I had chosen. Everyone who knew me would have been surprised to see my name in the obituaries.

However, I was introduced to Mormonism on a road trip. I was drawn into the dramatic story of the Mormons, who had left the known behind and risked all they had to live in a society created on their own terms. I was drawn further by the Plan of Salvation taught by the missionaries. When I was baptized my life was infused with direction and purpose. I adopted the Mormon story and a Mormon identity.

For a few years I felt better; however, I gradually reached a point where I couldn’t continue to live in a borrowed story and from a borrowed identity. Although Mormonism had given me time to sort out my life to a point, some psychological tasks can be put off only so long before they take a profound toll on us in the form of depression, dependence, or a kind of semi-dissociated state. I had reached that point.

Fortunately, I began seeing a skilled non-Mormon therapist who nonetheless saw a lot of Mormons. We spent nearly two years together, meeting weekly. I learned that if I paid attention to what I was thinking and feeling and I was curious rather than judgmental, I would find out who I was and what I wanted.

Until then, my priority had been to avoid people becoming angry and disappointed in me and rejecting me. Those thoughts, feelings, and behaviors I knew or believed would be unacceptable, I denied, disowned, and kept under wraps. In Mormonism there are many ways to be unaccepted. Near the end of 1989, I decided that to remain a Mormon was to betray myself and to risk even more serious problems than I had already experienced. As frightening as it was to leave, it was more frightening to stay.

My association with other ex-Mormons through the Internet has made me aware both that everyone’s story is different and we also have much in common. Given my personal experience in transitioning out of Mormonism and my profession as a psychotherapist, I’m particularly interested in how we go about reforming an identity after leaving the Mormon Church. Some of use leave with our identities pretty much intact, while others of us painfully struggle with who we are and how we fit into this new non-Mormon world. The Mormon story was our story. We were part of it. It was part of us. Perhaps it was us. Therefore, when we leave we may feel we have lost a large part of our story about ourselves—our identity. Such a loss is profoundly unsettling.

However, we can develop a post-Mormon identity that keeps the best of who we were while “writing back in” aspects of ourselves that can create a richer and more joyful identity. The rest of his paper describes one way to further help make that happen.

Uncovering and Telling a New Story of Ourselves

Even as the longest biography of us could not hope to tell everything about us and might leave out important aspects of our life as we ourselves might wish to tell it, so our lives as Mormons is not the only story, the whole story, or the truest story about us. As Mormons those events, thoughts, and feelings of our lives believed not to fit within the official Mormon story tended to be suppressed, hidden, ignored, shamed, and feared--written out of the story of ourselves, written out of our conscious identity.

However, when the elements which have been edited from our life to serve the Mormon story are recovered, identified, and honored, they can serve as a framework for the telling of a new, more authentic and enlivening account of who we are and who we are becoming. The process below is one way of recovering and retelling our personal stories so that they may be more satisfying, enlivening, and true to us. The process described below will help with that discovery and incorporation:

1. Draw a line down the center of a piece of paper. It could be standard-size paper, a note book, or something much larger, such as an easel pad or newsprint.

2. On the left side write a title that represents your life or some key aspect of your life as a Mormon. I will use “Old Story.” You can be as creative as you like, however. The focus of the title may be as broad or narrow as you wish. On the right side put down whatever title that best expresses for you the new life you are beginning to live or you hope to live. I will use “New Story.”

3. On the left side under “Old Story” write down the events, the thoughts, and feelings that made up that story. Include both positive and negative items—anything that is important to you. You can use sentences, single words, drawings, pictures, or collage. Feel free to add to this column at any time.

4. Identify current thoughts, feelings, and events you like or are proud of which no longer fit the Old Story. Place these on the right side under New Story. Don’t worry about order. You can use single words, drawings, pictures, or collage. Feel free to add to this column at any time.

5. Identify what you are doing to move your New Story along and put these in the right column. Some questions along this line might be

• How did I prepare to take this step?
• What was the turning point that made this possible?
• How am I doing now that was different from before?
• What exactly am I doing?
• What image is guiding me or what am I saying to myself to keep going?
• If I made a plan, what is my plan?
• Am I doing this on my own or do other people play a part in making this happen?
• Who encourages the changes I’ve made and how does he or she show do it?

6. Identify how your New Story helps you identify important values and goals. Some questions might include

• What positive things does it say about me as a person that I would do this?
• What personal characteristics does it show?
• What have I learned about myself and other people that I did not know before?
• What does this show about my values?
• What does this show about my goals?

7. Identify times in the past when the elements of your New Story have surfaced even briefly. Identifying these times helps you link your New Story to the past, showing that the changes you are making have been part of you all along rather than an aberration or a mistake.

• Were there times I had done something like this before?
• What would be some examples?
• Did I or someone else predict this change? Who was friendly toward this change?
• Which incident in my past stands out as a good illustration of the changes I would be making?

8. Extend your New Story into the future. Doing this will help give you hope and vision, which are important for sustaining change. Some questions about the future might be

• If I look at the changes I’ve made as a trend in my life, what would the next step be?
• If I were to send a letter back to myself from the future, what positive changes would I tell about?
• What do I want my life to look like in a year or five years or ten years, given the changes I am making now?

9. When you have written down the elements of the Old Story and New Story you want to work with, identify the elements of the Old Story that you wish to keep as part of your New Story. Move those elements from the Old Story to your New Story by circling them and drawing an arrow from each circled element to your New Story side of the page. This brings together the positive elements of the Old Story into your New Story, creating continuity for your New Story.

10. Finally, when you have completed this process, hang the paper on a wall or put it somewhere accessible so you can use it to remind you of your New Story. You can add to the New Story from time-to-time as your life unfolds. Writing our New Story and sharing it with others, perhaps on Recovery from Mormonism or in another setting, often strengthens our new identity and encourages us in continuing with our new life.

Telling Our Own Stories

As Mormons we were encouraged to meet monthly and tell the Mormon story as our own story. This monthly retelling is a powerful method the church uses to strengthen Mormon identity, often at the expense of what is really true to its members. Recovering our story from Mormonism and telling it as we experience it rather than telling it as we were expected to tell it is a powerful way to stand up for ourselves and recover who we are. I hope that the ideas and process presented will move us a little further along toward living the story that is most true and enlivening for us.


Material for this article was adapted from Narrative Therapy: The Social Construction of Preferred Realities by Jill Freedman and Gene Combs

What you're experiencing is very common to people who were wed psychologically and/or emotionally to Mormonism. It provided a 'open-package-and-add-water' set of seemingly 'spiritual' beliefs. But then reality - observable and experienced truths/facts - got in the way, on top of all the LDS demonstrable nonsense about JS, the BoM, early church history, and more.

Like everyone, you have the right to ALWAYS think for yourself, to do your own observing and thinking about EVERYTHING, if you wish. Is there a 'God' or isn't there? You get to decide. If you lean toward a belief in some sort of 'higher power', what constitutes 'it'? Is 'God' loving and cares for individual mortals, as many religions teach? Is so, how does one account for the 100's of 1,000's of people who have been violently killed just this decade in wars, acts of terrorism, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, etc.?

Why didn't 'God' bother to provide a 'heads-up' to mortals in danger? Is it 'loving' and 'caring' of an omniscient being or force or intelligence to not take a minute to provide vulnerable individuals, including women and children with some sort of warning to spare them from suffering and, in many cases, brutal death?

The point of such questions is that the more you observe, experience and scrutinize what you believe about 'God', 'spirituality', religion, and the like, the more you're going to be confronted by realities that don't fit anyone's belief system, I promise you.

That'll leave you with having to come to your own conclusions about such things - an important of maturing psychologically.

Stalwart (brainwashed, really) Latter-day Saints and other religionists aren't psychologically mature because they spend years, even their entire lives, mentally regurgitating a set of beliefs that aren't congruent with observed and experienced reality, particularly with scientific facts.

Re. Jesus, I suggest you buy or borrow and watch a thought-provoking 2005 documentary, "The God Who Wasn't There" - ref. http://www.thegodmovie.com

A few years ago, starting in Britain, a bus 'ad' campaign began and grew to other countries. The 'ad' said: "There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." (Ref. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Bus_Campaign )

"Enjoy your life" - that's not a message the LDS Church - or other many other churches - ever comprehended. That's the psychological beauty of the atheist/ and agnostic/humanist perspectives: there is no 'God' to perform for, to prove one's 'worthiness' to, to pray to (and not get answers!), to try to ferret out 'His', 'Her', or 'Its' will, etc.

There just living - squeezing as much enjoyment out of life as possible, learning to be resilient and resourceful to get through the tough times, and feeling connected to people and this beautiful, amazing world. We might live for decades more, or less time, but regardless, we can experience wonder and happiness right here, right now.

So, what do you want to experience w/ your life? What 'speaks' to you? What do you feel drawn to? What are you passionate about? These are not questions any Mormon so-called 'prophet' ever asked because you, the real you, your true self, never mattered to the LDS Church and Mormon patriarchy. The 'programmed', tithe-paying pseudo-self/'Mo-bot' that you were is what they wanted. Why? Because they were (and are) ones themselves. They don't know who they really are. They are strangers to their true selves. It's sad, really, but it doesn't need to be your reality. CREATE a great life for you! It's your right.

Finally, here's info. about how cultic Mormonism 'programs' people and affects their self-esteem and great ideas about what people can do to liberate themselves: http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

Best wishes!

thoughtful, introspective meditation. Whittle away all of the old beliefs until you get down to a core that is you and you alone. Your priorities, your spirituality, your sources of inspiration. If you like music, listen to it and relax. It'll take some time to get used to not being herded in this direction or that in terms of what you "should be" doing according to others. If you like incense, burn it and relax.

I've been where you are and a lot of what you said sounds very familiar to things I fought with while really freeing myself of the cult and the lifestyle it forced on me.

I think you'll find that each new day is more interesting as you continue entering a world where there are more and more unknowns (compared to living a life surrounded by a cult that claimed to know all things and have all the answers). It can be a bit scary at times, but more like an amusement park scary that the "Satan's gonna getchya" type scary that the LDS church tried to convince you of.

If you feel that religious worship of some sort is something that enhances your life, then explore places and see what and how they worship and if you like it, stick around, but I'd recommend that you don't take on any responsibilities or get too involved so that if you decide that it isn't the spiritual fit that you are looking for you won't feel guilty about moving on (which is easy to do as an ex-mo where callings, duties, activity, etc were such a big source of guilty feelings if you didn't feel that you were magnifying your calling and such).

If you stick around somewhere, whether it is a church or some other social group, make sure you are doing it because you like everything about it, not because you don't want to let others down by your "in-activity" or drifting away.

I don't know, those are just some random thoughts that come to mind when I think about the early stages of my transition out of Mormonism and its way of life and into my own way of life. I bounced around to quite a few places to see other religions at work and their forms of worship. After a few years I found the way that I enjoy being and I don't feel like there are any gaps in my life spiritually or otherwise and, most importantly, I don't feel that I am adhering to a belief system that puts me at odds with my true feelings. I still consider myself to be religious and I enjoy the affiliation that I do have with a church that I feel comfortable communing with. I enjoy the style of worship that I have developed for myself and the fact that no one around me has a problem with it either.

Take your time and put your wants and needs, spiritually or otherwise, first. Good luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2012 04:10AM by drjekyll.

Hi Nikki,

Welcome to our family. I want to encourage you that the path you're on is a valid one. As you can see from the comments here, many leave the church and embrace atheism. I took a path similar to yours, however. My first Bible after leaving the church was an NIV also. I ended up landing in a non-denominational church surrounded by people who loved me and were glad to listen to my continual doubts about being fleeced again.

I also found a group of ex-Mormons who were evangelical believers with a resonable well-thought out faith. This forum is not intended to debate theological issues, but just understand that the Christian community also has some reasonable answers for many of the questions we have as skeptical exmos.

Some prominent ex-Mormons are Christians. Sandra Tanner was a great help to me when I left the church. She runs Utah Lighthouse Ministry which was one of the pioneers in getting info out about the church. Her website is http://www.utlm.org, and she answers the phone at the ministry most days. There's also a blog run by ex-Mormons at http://lifeafterministry.wordpress.com/ and I believe they are also available to help answer questions from a Christian perspective.

And if you reduce yourself to the simplest foundation of just believing that there is a God, that's not a bad starting point, and you're in good company. There are thousands of years of philosophers and great teachers that weighed the evidence for and against the existence of God, and came away believing that there must be a God at the root of all this.

I was BIC, became an atheist at age 14, totally quit the church at age 17. I loved being in the great outdoors. So I like to say that I worship in the church of the G.O.D. (great out doors).

I went backpacking in the Uinta Mountains, Sawtooth Mountains, Wind River Mountains. I became an expert skier and was on the Alta Utah weekend ski patrol. I did extensive backcountry ski touring in the Wasatch Mountains. I went on day hikes in the Wasatch. I went on long (hundred mile) road bike rides. I owned three different sail boats and spent many days out on the water. I spent many days doing mountain bike rides. I did a lot of mountaineering -- summited Mt. Whitney (highest peak in the lower 48 states), Grand Teton, Middle Teton, Teewinot, Gannet Peak, Kings Peak, Half Dome and El Capitan in Yosemite.

I greatly preferred spending my time doing the above activities rather than sitting at home reading books. The real world is out there, available for anyone who has the fitness and time to enjoy it. In Salt Lake City the Wasatch Mountain Club is a place where outdoors people can meet and share activities with others. And there are almost no Mormons in the club.

I consider the word "believe" to be a useless negative word. I live in the real world. I don't have to believe in my truck, my bicycles, my sailboat, my backpacking gear, etc. I know they exist and I know how to use them to bring me great pleasure. I accept science as the only way to understand the physical world and universe in which we live. If science cannot address a particular topic then that topic is not worth worrying about.

My morals are simple: obey the laws of the land and follow the Golden Rule when dealing with people. I eschew religion.

I am now 70 years old so my outdoor activities have slowed down a lot. But I have great memories and photographs from my many years of outdoors adventures. I seriously doubt that there are 70-year-olds who have fond memories of the days they spent sitting at home reading books.

Last night I entered an abyas, deep sorrowful dream of how it all ends for proberbly everyone, suffocating death and watching those around you mornful of your departure, as you slip into nothingness save it be until brain dead, the torchure of our own imaginations, fear and guilt is our own doing. As soon as we realize that this 2 year hell lived in around 9 minuetes of almost brain dead, we come to the light of joy and laughter that there is absolutely nothing, just all alone, a few imagined faires and pixies, angels and demons, then the blackness comes and we dont exist and we know we shall never see our families again because there is NO GOD.
The dream was observing my athiest father dieing which is is anyway, but the end result for athiest to have such a dream at death and until brain dead, is frightenng tho the light that comes does not mean we live again as in this dream, it seemed the suffocating end was we pay for everything we ever did wrong in that 9 minuetes of hell lived out like 2 years in our mind.
Atheist would proberbly figure this out that it is just the last of brain activity to torchure ourselfs.

I recently was told off on this site by Erik for preaching seven day adventism so for him to write to me personally I was so honored, because this site saved me from suicide not any christian relegion.... I'm now kind of returned to the compasionate values and belief system of buddhism but I dont believe in any of the reincarnation added stuff that every organization has stuffed up this way.. But I must say that
we should not by trying to please anyone and remember that when we choose to drug our bodies with substance why we do it just to fit in or rebell against our old belief systems.
The most important thing is to accept death as life without all the frills save it be go trecking mountain camping etc if certain that the grizzly bear want eat ya or some other demon thought that stops us. SAVOIRSELF SAID AT 70 WHO LOOKS BACK AND COUNTS JOY FOR SITTING AROUND READING ALL DAY WHEN ITS THE MEMORIES OF THE OUTINGS OF NATURE....GIVE UP ANY SUBSTANCE AS I AM TRYING TO WORK ON AND GO TO THE MOUNTAINS OF NATURE, AND BE LIKE JOHN DENEVER AND LIKE ALL FREE BIRDS LEGENDS THE BIRDS COME DOWN CRASH LANDING AND DIE LIKE JOHN DENEVER TO GOOD FOR THIS WORLD. EXPECT DEATH FOR REAL TRUTH. ONLY THE WICKED CYNICAL AND MESSED UP STICK AROUND... WHEN I FEAR DEATH TO MUCH I SMOKE WHICH IS ANOTHER TYPE OF SLOW DEATH SUICIDE BUT I ACTUALLY HIT ROCK BOTTEM WHEN I AM DRUG FREE SUBSTANCE NO MORE DOOD IF I DONT GO OUT INTO NATURE AND I HARDLY DO SO I SEEM TO RETURN TO SMOKING.. I MYSELF NEEDS TO OVERCOME THE FEAR OF CAMPING, AND THE CREATURES THAT LIVE IN THE WOODS READY TO DEVOUR US, FUCK EM, COOK THEM UP AND EAT THEM AND FUCK ANY RELEGION THAT SAYS NOT TO EAT MEAT AS LONG AS ITS ORGANIC MEAT,
LETS GO CAMPING AND EAT GRIZZLY BEAR AND SQUIRL NUTS ETC.

LARRY..(JOKING OR SERIOUS THAT IS THE QUESTION HOW i FEEL TONIGHT) BIOPOLA MANIC DEPRESSION HITS HARD NO SMOKING AND NO CHRISTIAN RELEGION, A TOUCH OF BUDDHISM YES AND CAMPING STILL HAVE NOT THE GUTS TO DO IT AFTER BITTEN BY A SNAKE LAST TIME
SICK AS HELL. SNAKES WANT TO BITE ME WHEN I'M GOOD BUT WHEN I'M BAD MEAN BASTARD NOTHING EVER GOES WRONG. THE TOURISTS MORE FEAR ME THAN THE BEARS ANYWAY HE HE.......bIG FOOT LET LOOSE.

LARRY.