Hi, my name is Evie and I guess I don't so much as need advice as much as I'm sort of concerned at the moment, know in my heart what I should do in the future, and kind of want to vent/get some stuff off my chest! My boyfriend of six months (we've been friends for two and a half years) is a TBM and things are and have been going great with him from the start! We're both 18 in our senior year and I'm not Mormon or have any affiliation with the religion, but find it fascinating to learn about, not with the intention of joining, but just because I find it interesting and my boyfriend doesn't like to talk about it with me. If I ask (pry) he'll talk with me about it, but for whatever reason he just doesn't like to go into detail with me. I prefer learning about his religion on my own because some of it shocks me (and not in a good way). I'm what I'd call... spiritual non-religious, enjoy a drink every so often, curse a healthy amount (not around him!), and love my coffee and tea. We've ALWAYS respected one another's beliefs, insisting that we'd never want to change one another and that everything about one another is perfect! He's NEVER pushed his religion on me in any way, shape or form and I've always been supportive of his TBM-ness. We've had no real issues and I truly believe that he loves me for who I am.

So, why am I here... I guess this site just really captures my eye in a lot of ways because my last boyfriend was also Mormon (I live in a small town in Colorado with a lot of Mormon families) Today we got on the topic of his mission (bleh) and he said that the idea of not being able to see me and talk to me really "freaks him out" and that saying good-bye to me will be the hardest part. We also talked about how he didn't want this to end after high school. Honestly, I don't either. But we're doomed, aren't we? I mean, I'm not converting. I'm not making my family wait outside the temple. I disagree with 90% of everything Mormonism teaches. And I would never ask him to convert or not go on his mission because I know what an awful thing that is to ask of a TBM, or anyone you love. I really think he sees a future with me, but I can't get ANY read on if he's banking on me converting, or what! This whole mission thing makes me so mad because I can tell that he views it as a duty rather than something he wants to do. He's just been raised to think of it as something he was GOING TO DO. Once I asked him what happened if someone just didn't go on a mission and he seemed kind of shocked, like the idea had never occurred to him. It sounds bloody awful and just cruel! Call it a sacrifice, service, blah, blah, blah whatever you want but thinking of him specifically on a mission and not being able to do what he loves or talk to who he loves just makes me sick. SIIICK. Bless his heart, but he's never been away from his family or out of the country. Sending him blindly out into the world to do a mission after never experiencing anything like that seems like a bad, bad idea.

I've read a lot of 'MY BOYFRIEND/GIRLFRIEND IS MORMON' stories on here and concluded that mine sounds a little different in that... he truly respects the person I am and he has never wrinkled his nose at my beliefs or I at his. I know he's probably thinking that things would be a lot better if I was Mormon too, heck, I'm thinking things would be easier if he wasn't, but I believe that when it came down to it, neither one of us would want to change one another's beliefs. Over the summer I spent six weeks in Africa and it was extremely hard for both of us, and I said he should think about it like my 'little mission' and that I'll be sad to go and happy to see him as soon as I got back. This cheered him up a little and he half jokingly but pretty seriously said 'well, I hope you're waiting for me at the end of mine.' Yikes! On an interesting side note... My mother went to one of those 'very impressive, expensive, shockingly accurate' psychics and he said that he never sees us breaking up and says that we're both very much in love. Interesting! Haven't told him that though.

Another thing, I feel like I'm corrupting him. I feel like us doing physical stuff (making out) is going to bite him in the ass sooner or later and that it's only a matter of time before someone in the church intervenes or something... Sad. It's something I worry about a lot. The first time we made out he said he had a bad feeling the next day (oh, I know all about how feeling is tied into things now) and basically had an anxiety attack before confiding in his dad (not the bishop!!! hoorah!!) who said it was fine as long as we didn't do the deed. He's completely moved past that phase but I'm just twiddling my thumbs, wondering if he'll get guilty again or something... He's not one of those TBM who runs and tells the bishop everything, I know that.

It's just sad because I feel like I know our relationship is doomed (unless he grows out of Mormonism, without me coaxing him, period. I just can't do it with good conscience) and he thoroughly wants to pursue it long term (has said 'I know it's selfish of me but I don't want you meeting other guys while I'm gone on my misson...). I know what I have to do, eventually. I owe it to myself to date those two years and enjoy college. I plan to write him, support him, and love him while he's gone. I just feel awful because I'm in love with him, and because I don't think he he doesn't feel the same way, it will hurt him maybe even more than it hurts me. So I guess I'd just like to discuss and have a little advice! Maybe hear from some people who have been/are in my same boat. Thanks everyone!

Well, Evie it sounds like you really do like this guy and you want things to work out....however, he is under some pretty strong Mormon "brainwashing" at the moment. Believe me, we all were at one point.

The problem is he may really love you and want to ignore all of the issues about you not being a member of the Church but it is bound to come up. If you don't join then he can't get married in an LDS temple. That is typically VERY important to most Mormons (I was one of them.) I was temple married and wouldn't have accepted anything else. It was not even an option not to.

How does his family treat you? Are they accepting of you? Do you think they would support him dating you long term if they knew you were not interested in ever joining the Church? How close is he with his parents and siblings? Would they cut him off if he left the church? All of those answers will play into the end outcome. Also, what about if you had children together? Would he be willing to compromise on how they were raised? If not, would you be okay with your future children being raised as Mormons?

I know it seems like these are heavy questions to be considering at this point, but really what is the purpose of holding on to the relationship for two years if it's not going to go anywhere? Only you two can decide that. Good luck! Please keep us posted.

Before he goes on his mission, he will be forced to "confess" to the bishop every little sordid juicy intimate detail of how the two of you swapped spit and every little feel up he did with you-with complete details- sort of like porn.
If bf goes too far with you by the bishops definition, not necessary "all the way", but maybe messing around with oral sex well...bishops have been known to put the guy on the side-lines for awhile,before sending him on the mission, publicly shaming him by not allowing him to take or serve communion. The entire congretation then gets to "speculate" on what kind of sin he is did (they assume sexual).

Do you really want you personal sex life looked into that way?He can mess with you, since then he is not "spoiling" a Molly that is being groomed to marry a returned missionary. The system is using you.

Let him go on his mission with your good wishes, and in the meantime get on with your life, dating others in the interim (tell him upfront you are going to do this) . If he returns with the same feelings for you, and you still want to pursue a relationship with him, proceed with caution. Sooner or later the question of you converting and getting hitched in the Temple is going to come up, and I hope you have the intestinal fortitude to say no.

Johnny Canuck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let him go on his mission with your good wishes,
> and in the meantime get on with your life, dating
> others in the interim (tell him upfront you are
> going to do this) . If he returns with the same
> feelings for you, and you still want to pursue a
> relationship with him, proceed with caution.
> Sooner or later the question of you converting and
> getting hitched in the Temple is going to come up,
> and I hope you have the intestinal fortitude to
> say no.

And make it abundantly clear that IF he unloads his guilt on the Bishop, the relationship is over. What you do between yourselves is your business alone as consenting participants, and NOT the so called Churches damned affair in any way shape or manner. What you are engaging in sounds like healthy behavior for someone your age, and the fact he feels guilty afterwards is cause for caution on your part IMHO.

This is a bit long but hang in there.

The bishop may and can tell his counselors, and the Stake president and his counselors could wind up in the middle of your current romance with this kid. Multiple men that you don’t know can wind up discussing details that no one needs to know (they will do it in a spiritual kind of way working for your “good”) of course. Your romance will become an internal item in his mormon circles.

Think about that. When you confess to a Catholic priest it dies right there. That does not happen in Mormonism. If the Bishop is cool at the very least his counselors may know. These guys are not trained at all for this kind of work. They were pulled out of the audience to do the job with no ecclesiastical or psychological training. It is nothing more than a “good ol boys club”.

They usually mean well however are you willing to put your private life out there for these pretenders that you don’t know? Every time they see you for the rest of your life they will think “hey there goes that girl that Joey had wild monkey sex with”. IMO it is none of their damn business.

Also if you stay with him this same intrusiveness never goes away. People’s sexual lives are no one’s business and the church uses it as a weapon of guilt. This weapon will get in the middle of your sex life long term as you BF will always be feeling guilty about one thing or another as his mind will continually be asking itself if his sexual actions are righteous and or approved by the “brethren” and so that he never forgets this, his garments or secret underwear that he will receive if he goes on his mission, will be a second by second reminder.

Trust me on this. Those garments are ugly and constitute a mental and physical barrier to a couple’s intimacy.

You’re going to have to ask yourself this question. “Do I want my significant others religious beliefs and the people surrounding him constantly trying to convert me and make me conform to its rules even though I don’t believe?“

This will be (if you choose him) a lifelong issue.
You will find that his love is conditional upon belief and or support of his churches rules.

Love can be found elsewhere. Good guys can be found if you are patient. You are in no hurry at 18.

It is also more than probable that if you are just patient that you could find another that blows this one off the map and that doesn’t come with this kind of baggage. Or you could get him to educate himself and he may do so if he loves you more than he loves the church. Good luck with that. Few mixed mormon marriages last. Then there are the kids. They will be mormons and that will be a family fight that will include extended family.

Do not marry this guy for sex. Think of the long term generational consequences. Because you are here I think you are ahead of the game. You can obviously think for yourself and should be proud of yourself for getting advice from those who have travelled this road.

Read the exit letters from those who have left. You will not be disappointed. Inform yourself so that when you’re around his family you will know BS when you hear it.

I really need to stop. Sorry but I could go on for weeks.

My advice, no steady boy for ten years. (in more subtle words, don’t get pregnant) Get educated, travel, support yourself, do not under any circumstance depend on a man to support you.

I wish you the very best of luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2010 01:02AM by AmIDarkNow?.

If he comes back from the mission and you are waiting there is a better than average chance that he will then try to convert you. Some folks come back from missions and pretty quickly leave the church, but most don't. The purpose of the mission is pure cult indoctrination. The Missionary Training Center is the most intense form of cult indoctrination, but the mission field itself is usually also an intense cult indoctrination. Some mission presidents (and senior companions, district leaders, etc.) are very controlling, and sometimes this control works to indoctrinate, but occasionally it drives people away. Impossible to predict really, but the reason they keep doing missions is it is their best predictor of who is a well-indoctrinated young man.

So, expect that he will try to convert you (and may even be doing that now in subtle ways). Regarding your intimacy issues, you and he should do what you are comfortable with and use good judgment. I have an 18-year old daughter away at college now, and that is the same advice I give her.

Please do not convert to Mormonism. You seem to know much of the truth of the church, but I don't think you can ever really know how incredibly controlling it is until you are in. Further, there is a lot of pressure to be stupid and "follow the Brethren" no matter what they say. "When the Prophet speaks, the thinking's been done," and all that kind of crap that doesn't seem like it would work for you.

You might want to encourage him to meet up with some returned missionaries from this board who can tell him some of the stuff to expect on his mission that he won't hear in church. That might just help him survive a little better.

Best of luck to you.

He will spend the next two years trying to convert people, so obviously he will want the same for you. I would tell him that since he is leaving you that you will be moving on with your life right now. Thus, he will be forced to chose you or the cult. If he chooses the cult, he is not right for you.

Good luck.

Be careful. His family may be treating you nice in an attempt to convert you. Keep in mind that their attitudes may go south quickly should it become apparent that you intend to marry their son without converting.

Thank you so much everyone for the support and quick replies! I kind of just wanted to introduce myself and my situation because I have a feeling that I'll be needing perhaps more serious advice on this matter in the near future. (;

@Desdemona -- His family treats me very well! They're all very sweet and nice to me, invite me over to dinner, I even went to church with them once a couple months ago with no hassle or encouragement before or after from ANYONE. It was my own choice, because I wanted the 411 to see for myself what went on on Sundays! He's very close with his parents and siblings, but I'm under the impression family is family, no matter what, because the mother has gay brothers and though they were excommunicated, they are still family and their partners come over for family gatherings and everything. Though they all thoroughly disagree with homosexuality, again, obviously.

@lamedandy -- Though I'm very aware that what you say is fact, I don't think I'm being used by the system and I couldn't give two you know what's how some bishop in Utah thinks of me as much as I'll feel horrible if his reputation/mission is slandered because of things he's done with me, which I'm well aware (although innocent by other's standard) is crossing the line for Mormons. Should I stop? I don't want to hurt him and I guess I've never thought of the stark reality of that until right now...

@Johnny Canuck -- I agree with everything you said Johnny, and I will say no. It's not fair to either of us for me to convert, or ask me to abandon his beliefs. Flat Lander, I think that's good advice... I probably should mention something but I don't know if I'd word it that way. 'If... then...' seems a little controlling from my personality. He doesn't feel guilty afterwards anymore though. He even initiates most of it... The only time he panicked was the first time we made out. It was the first time for both of us so I understood the anxiety... kinda.

@Flat Lander -- Trust me, my beliefs are far too much the opposite to convert. (: Thank you for the advice! I really don't think he's trying to convert me subtly now... I almost feel like he doesn't want to talk about his religion with me, period. Interesting, huh?

You need to know more about his family's feelings. Will they expect him to marry in the temple? Will they expect him to dump you when he is gone to come home and marry a molly mormon? This mission will change him- either for the better or worse...he will want to marry a Mormon girl or he will know Mormonism is not for him. I would not venture to guess which way it goes.

Do date while he is gone. Don't hold your breath he will be waiting for you. I know girls who dumped their convert boyfriend just before his mission ended. It happens all the time. I really don't think it will work if he stays mormon. Just my opinion. Good luck. Consider him a very good friend that you learned a lot from.

"He's NEVER pushed his religion on me in any way, shape or form and I've always been supportive of his TBM-ness. We've had no real issues and I truly believe that he loves me for who I am."


That sentiment has been repeated so often on this board by the non-mormon half of a mixed-faith couple (with one half a TBM), that it has almost become an hilarious, self-satirizing expression.

Frequently, the TBM half goes through some kind of change: maybe his family, friends, or clergy have spoken to him, or perhaps some kind of internal "time bomb" detonates. Suddenly, he/she has to "get right" with the mormon god, become uber-mormon, and convert the other half, - or 'divorce' same, recommencing the search for a 'true' TBM mate.

This is an unwelcome message - but the probability is _very_ high (bordering on certainty) that you will be back on this board within 18 to 24 months describing feelings of hurt and betrayal at the hands of your mormon boyfriend - or, describing the entrapment you feel because you converted to mormonism to placate your boyfriend, and now you want to escape the oppressively robotic, clenched-fist society you are enmeshed in.

You can show unusual wisdom, right now, by reconsidering the current state of your life - or you can allow events to play out to their almost certain conclusion.

Good luck ...

Sounds like a case of being in heat. Both of you will grow and change a lot over the next 3-5 years. People that go on a mission,,come back totally different, Have different values,,outlooks. Get an education. Travel and get to know other cultures,,other lifestyles. Being single is not all that bad.
Good luck,,think it over and keep us posted.

Wow, you're more mature at your age than I was! That's a wonderful statement and I think it's awesome that you realize the basic lack of ethics in trying to change someone's religous persuasion.

I agree, be honest with your boyfriend that you aren't going to sit home twiddling your thumbs waiting for him to return. However, as a friend I think it would be fantastic if you sent him regular letters. Like other non-members have mentioned doing on this board, keep them "newsy" maybe mention things that you know are important to him -- like a favorite team or something.

From what I've read on this interfaith relationships are tough in any faith but they often seem much tougher when one is a Mormon. I suspect that your relationship is doomed as well but stranger things have happened than a relationship like yours working out.

I wish the best. I hope all works out well for both of you.

Hi Evie,

Wow. Your situation sounds a hell of a lot like the situation i've been in for the past 4 months, with the exception that i'm the missionary. I was dating this girl all summer and she wasn't LDS either. Things have been really hard because she knew I was planning on going on a mission, (which I didn't really want to go either, but it's such a cultural thing here in Utah that I automatically thought that's what I was supposed to do and was expected to do) so we had to be very careful with what we did physically as well. As the summer drew near to the end, which was when I was supposed to leave for my mission, things became harder and harder. We both really care about each other and my lack of integrity to stand up to the religion and my family made it worse.

To make a long story short, I am not going on my mission anymore, not because of her, but because reality hit me hard and I realized that I was in no way, shape or form ready to preach something I had never really believed, and to give up relationships and friendships to go out and preach religion just to maintain good standings with my family.

All I can say is, if he is truly sacrificing for something he sincerely believes in, then you should encourage him and support him, but make sure he knows where you stand. If he is just going on a mission because he is expected to, but doesn't really want to, then that's his bad. Not yours. If the latter is the case, I feel really sorry for him. It sounds like he is losing an opportunity to pursue a relationship with someone he is in love with for a religion he doesn't really believe in.

In any case, you sound like a really smart girl that knows what you want. If he goes, it will be hard, but don't wait for him. It will be a waste of time. He won't be the same person when he gets back. Date people who share the same beliefs as you, it will be a lot better in the end.

Hope all works out. :)

rally

@honestone -- I have no idea. I'd assume all those are ideal, but some of his siblings and his parents have gone through the whole 'converting for love' thing so I wonder what their outlook is. Maybe it is expected of me, but there have been no and I mean absolutely no hints at that by anyone in his family. They seem more accepting of other cultures/lifestyles than other TBM I've met. Yet the TBM-ness is still there...

@3X -- I think of that all the time. Here's another interesting tibit, though. After he had is 'I'm a sinner' anxiety attack after we made out for the first time six months ago, he felt like the holy spirit was slapping his hand and whatever. You all probably know the drill more than I do about that! Anyway, I asked him if that meant he wanted to break up with me, but he adamantly insisted no, he cared about me more than anything and didn't want to do that. I can't express all the details of our relationship that have led me to believe this isn't the standard 'exmo scenario' I've read about on here, but if I turn out to be wrong in 18-24 months, feel free to rub it in. Nicely, please.

@unworthy -- I didn't ask if our relationship was a matter of being in heat or not, but thanks for the other sound advice. ;)

@Rebeckah -- Thank you for the advice! I definitely plan on writing him! :)

@rallychild -- I'm so glad to hear you backed out on your mission because of a gut feeling! My boyfriend does NOT seemed excited about it. He talks like it's a duty. Kind of like I've been raised thinking I'll go to college, he's been raised thinking he'll go on a mission. I desperately want to ask my boyfriend 'why do you WANT to go on a mission?' and hear what his answer is. If he says he feels like it's a duty or that he's just always assumed he would, I'm going to nicely ask him to take a step back and think about it. He frequently tells me I'm 'perfect and that he wouldn't change a thing' (call me naive and say what you will, bitter exmos, but I'm inclined to believe it!) I feel like asking him, if he wouldn't change a thing about me, why would he go on a mission for two years to change a catastrophic view of someone else's special someone? It's a double standard if you ask me. I want him to think in a different light for a second because NO ONE has ever asked him do that before. Who else would ask him but me? Not only that, but holy cow, going on a mission for two years for ANYONE has got to just be the @#$%&, let alone if you've never been away from your family, don't really like change, are a picky eater, have a serious girlfriend AND have never been out of the country! Yikes!

Could you let me know how your relationship has worked out...I have a Mormon boyfriend and in three years he's going to go on a mission. Just wondering

Certainly date others while he's away. Just take it as it comes. Don't be surprised if your feelings for him change over time. This often naturally happens. Although you sound very mature for your age, you are very young. No need to rush into anything. One of the things Mormons love to do is rush into marriage and children. I can't tell you how many returned missionaries are married within 8 months of returning home. Married at 21. Yikes! But I think it's wise to experience several - maybe many - relationships before hitching. You might be surprised just how much deeper "love" can really be with someone else. But how would you know unless you play the field a little.

If you're still very attached to him when he returns home, I'm afraid the outlook isn't very good. There is a slight chance that his devotion to the LDS Church will diminish on his mission and he no longer wants to be involved, but that is not likely. More likely, his resolve for the "church" will have deepened and he would want to convince you to convert. If you resist, then he will have little alternative but to look elsewhere for a "worthy" companion. This is the much more likely scenario. Also remember that the relationship you form with him also includes his extended family. It's really a package deal. So, you will be judged and pressured from many fronts if you choose to date or marry a Mormon.

So, again, I would not at all stifle your socialization at this point. Experience the world and others. Play the field. Let relationships develop naturally. See what happens over time.

Your boyfriend sounds like I was in high school--TBM but pretty laid back about it, at least in most ways I was. Growing up none of my close friends were LDS and I didn't care but I will say that I did have secret hopes of my best friend converting someday. I didn't push it on her at all and most of the time we didn't even talk about religion, but I would invite her to church activities sometimes. And she often went with me. I'm sure if you had asked her she would not have thought I wanted her to convert.

Also, in my senior year I met a guy at work and we became really close. We dated for several months before I went away to BYU. He wasn't LDS and I felt like it was my "calling" to convert him. I invited him to church and gave him a Book of Mormon but it wasn't something I was constantly pushing on him. But I absolutely wanted him to convert and knew that it wasn't likely he would which made me really sad and ultimately I didn't pursue a more serious relationship with him because, like you I didn't think it'd be right to expect him to convert. Anyway, what's interesting is that having talked to him about this years later (we have stayed in touch off and on over the years but didn't end up together) he said he didn't feel like I was trying to convert him, he said he just knew it was important to me but he didn't see it as anything more than me sharing that part of my life with him. So, my point is, while you may not see it, it is highly likely that he does want to convert you. And if he doesn't feel so strongly about it now, he most likely would after his mission. I realize this is just my experience and perhaps he doesn't feel that way, but I wanted to share. When it comes to marriage most TBMs really want that temple ceremony so marrying a nevermo is just not an option. I know that sucks but that's how it is.

That being said, maybe you will get lucky and he will choose you over the church, anything is possible and it has happened before. But be prepared to have to walk away.

I hope it works out for the best for both of you.

His TBM family is being decent with you because they don’t perceive you as a threat. They know the likelihood of the current relationship escalating beyond the typical High School girlfriend/boyfriend status is next to nil. His dad has already given him his marching orders…no doing the “dirty deed” because the expectation is already there that he “will” serve a mission no ifs ands or buts about it.

They know that your current relationship has a built in expiration date due to the upcoming mission. So they’re content to let him sow a few will oats with a nice gentile girl and get it all out of his system before his mission.

His family also knows that the mission will isolate the two of you and that any further contact will be limited to the occasional letter because phone calls, texts or emails will be strictly forbidden by missionary rules. Quite frankly they know that the odds of the two remaining a couple during and after his mission are in their favor and against the two of you. Just remember your boyfriend will have a whole new set of family exactions when he returns as a Returned Missionary. They will expect him find himself a nice Mormon girl and to take her to the temple.

Best start preparing yourself for the eventual break-up. He has his Mormon duty to perform and you have you own unique set of experiences coming down the road as well. Make no promises except that you’re both going enjoy the life experiences each will be facing alone. After High School find a way to get yourself to college and get as much education as you can. Make sure you take advantage of the whole college experience even including meeting and dating new people. Don’t limit the rest of your life based solely upon your first relationship.

Please tell me you're going to college. That experience alone will mature you and give you a better idea of what you want for your life. There is so much out there to experience and learn. Most people don't know at 18 who they are, let alone who they can love forever.

I'm not saying this relationship is doomed, but if you do end up staying together, it will be a struggle, for all the reasons given above. A few years of higher learning are the best way to put it to the test before making any long-term promises.

I agree with those who say date others and be honest that you plan to do so. See where it goes when he gets back.

If I could talk to my 21-year-old self, I'd tell her to run like hell from the TBM boyfriend (who became the husband). There are plenty of people in the world to love who don't come with Mormon baggage. I wish my husband (now ex) had listened to his Patriarch father and not married me. Your 20s and 30s should be fun and carefree, not worrying about whether your Gs are showing.

It is nice you have had a caring boyfriend. But I must say, when it comes to marriage and kids, they will make him do it the Mormon way. They do not let things like this slide. When he is serious about marrige his parents will want it done their way. They will push and push for converting you. It happened to my daughter. She remained nonmormon for 4 yrs. after marriage. They didn't have kids yet. But then it happened -they got her to do it. I was devistated.

His parents will want any child you may have to go thru a Mormon blessing - putting him on a list to be harrassed forever. I say chalk this up to a nice dating experience and don't pursue it any further. YOUR life will end up not being YOUR life. Seriously. Send him on his mission and sure just date around. If he leaves the mission to come back to you and gives up MOrmonism then all is well. But if he stays it is just two more yrs. of indoctrination. YOU are not first in his life....the church is. It will forever be that way.

Most people are not aware of their limitations. He might make promises he can't keep out of having intentions he can only wish to maintain. A snowball has a better chance in hell than a Mormon/non Mormon intimate relationship.
Face it, if you are dealing with someone that honestly believes all the disproved rhetoric written in the Book of Mormon-or even does not believe it but lives in cognitive dissonance of it, then you are dealing with someone with extreme limitations on estimating their own limitations. This person may be nice but their brain does not function reliably enough to allow for a future with you.

Divorce rates are more than double the national average for mixed marriages between Mormons and non-Mormons. I would never marry a Mormon. It will be a problem when you have kids. You want you kids raised in the cult?

The one warning bell I have in this whole affair is his comment to you that he doesn't want you not see other people while he's on his mission.

Sorry - that's not how it works in a good, mature relationship. Yes - it's incredibly selfish, and frankly... incredibly typical male Mormon control techniques. You're expected to sit and wait for him to return. And do not take any softened tones about it as joking or being kind - he truly expects you'll wait for him, because he'll be the valiant returned missionary. It's what he was taught he would do. After two years of constant brainwashing, he will NOT return the same person you know now. Guaranteed.

My advice to you is to move on. Keep in contact with him via letters as friends if you wish, but make it clear that you're not waiting for him. If a relationship rekindles after he returns, great - but until then, it is completely unreasonable to carry on a romantic relationship.

As for not telling the bishop everything about the two of you- yes, he will. Don't believe that he wouldn't do it for a second.

Go and live your life. Go to college, get a job, date other guys. The person you are at 18 is so different than the person you'll be at 21 or 22 when he returns, that you may not recognize yourself, let alone him. I apologize for sounding condescending, but at 18, you simply don't have the life experience yet, and if you tie yourself to this guy, you're going to hinder yourself. Don't tie yourself to a boyfriend during this change - you need to get out completely untethered from high school and GROW.

Your future is just starting. It may involve him, it may not. But a commitment to him is the wriong thing as you start out as an adult. I don't doubt you love him, but how love weaves your life as you get out there on your own is very different than love as a high schooler.

And that's a good thing.

Hi! I have been somewhat in your shoes. I met my husband when I was 19. I am a protestant and he is a "jack mormon," slang for the mormons who arent active and may not believe all the bullshit but are still deeply ensnared in some way or other. My husband was dating a non mormon girl before he went on his mission. After a while of being on the mission (not sure how long, it's a painful time in his life that's hard for him to talk about) he felt tremendous guilt for sexual activities he had done with his girlfriend. To my knowledge it wasn't even sex. Probably making out and heavy petting type stuff. Anyways, he "confessed" about his guilt for these activities and got KICKED OFF HIS MISSION. He had to return home in public shame. The relationship with that girlfriend was indeed doomed. I don't know if he resents her but their relationship caused him serious anguish as a result of the hateful nature of his religious community.

My husband has always struggled with feelings of unwarranted guilt and these feeling increased to a crippling level after he was sent home. He is an alcoholic and I believe that the trauma inflicted on him by Mormonism is something he will spend the rest of his life recovering from.

I did not know him during that time in his life, I met him several years later, but I can only imagine the emotional damage that fiasco caused for the girlfriend, assuming she was at all emotionally invested in their relationship. She became a sort of Hester Prynne in his life.

I worry that you may become this young mans Hester Prynne... They treat you nicely right now because they expect you to disappear. Try to imagine how the TBM family will treat you if he leaves his mission early bc of any reason concerning you. I don't believe they will "turn the other cheek" as it were. Mormons can be a pernicious and nasty lot to deal with. One day they are sweet as pie, the next they seem to be (and probably are) plotting to destroy your life. Get ready for your scarlet letter.

I can't tell you what to do with your life or when to marry (I left college early and worked full time which was much more satisfying for me. I fell heavily into drugs in college, it was a toxic environment for me. I also married at 21, a decision I do not regret. I do wish that my husband and I had talked more openly and honestly about the Mormon influence in his life. It would have saved us a lot of anguish and grief.) I do hope that you maintain a critical eye about your relationship and your boyfriends motives. EVERYTHING that he sees and experiences is perceived through a Mormon filter, even you! This filter may become exponentially more intense after a "successful" mission.

The fact that he does not want to talk with you about religion at all deeply concerns me. My husband is the same way. I can tell you that at least in my own experience, when someone refuses to talk with a significant other about their religion it is because they are avoiding the issue entirely, for reasons you may not wish to find out. Press him to discuss his religion in a frank and honest way with you. If he cannot do this, your relationship has a dim future filled with strife.

I wish you the best, please proceed with extreme caution.

In reading your post you seem to have your head on straight. Your approach sounds pretty good. You are right that when he leaves on his mission you need to move on with your life. Yes, it will be painful and difficult.

Here are a few thoughts for you.

1) Stop feeling guilty about corrupting him. Those are normal experiences and things he needs to be experiencing while dating. Just make sure you know what your lines are and what you are comfortable with and stick to those.

2) Love isn't as rare as it feels like it is when you are 18. Love isn't as good of predictor of a successful relationship as it feels like it is when you are 18. That doesn't make it any less painful or difficult to move on. However, you already seem to have the healthy perspective that you can and will move on. You are right - it will work to move on. This experience will make you more prepared to be more successful in your next relationship.

3) He will change a lot in 2 years. So will you. You may or may not be compatible after that time. As has been mentioned one thing that may change is his current attitude about being willing to just let you believe what you believe - he very likely may become much more into his religion. On the other hand, it could also go the other way. In any case waiting around 2 years you aren't going to get the same person back that left. You will both be 2 different people than you are today and you will have grown apart, not together. Certainly to put your life on hold hoping that the 2 future yous will still have a bond isn't the best move.

4) My Mom waited for my Dad while he was on his mission. They never dated anyone else. They have an absolutely miserable marriage. They have one of those live in the same house but emotionally distant marriages. I suspect that if they had had a little more experience dating other people that they would have been better prepared to work with each other in their marriage and be more successful in it.

5) The different religious beliefs may not seem like a big deal now, but they will become a much bigger deal in a marriage. How will you feel when he is gone almost all day every Sunday to "fulfill his calling"? How will you deal with raising children with different beliefs? There are many more complications. It can work certainly, but the impact is probably a lot more than you currently realize.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2012 11:01AM by bc.

I have to say that I think your feelings for this guy are clouding your judgement about how TBM this guy is and what that really means.

If he has never considered that he could not go on a mission, and if he feels guilty about making out this guy is likely pretty Mormon. The culture and belief has a serious hold no him and that means that in the future 1) he will need a Mormon spouse and 2) try to convert you if you stay together.

You should know that even of you waited for him on his mission there's no guarantee that he will wait for you— especially if you clearly express you have no intention of converting.

Mormonism is cradle to grave and although he's not pushing the faith on you now, that doesn't mena he wont in the future. The religion teaches that everyone needs to be Mormon and that families only really work when everyone believes. I have seen a number of less active LDS marry non-LDS when religion isn't an issue only for it to become an issues once kids come into the picture.

Are you looking to marry him....cuz that' the only conceivable future of the relationship if he's TBM. He can't have sex til he's married— and that will become a key factor at some point.


My .02 is that it would be risky at best to get into a relationship with someone like that assuming that religion won't be an issue.

Best of luck to you both.

carouselx wrote:
>
>He frequently tells me I'm 'perfect and that he wouldn't change a thing' (call me naive and say what you will, bitter exmos, but I'm inclined to believe it!)
>
Really? Aaaaaaaah, the arrogance of youth.

Ok, darlin' . . . I'll "call you naive and say what I will" at *your* invitation. You are incredibly naive about Mormon culture. Someday, sooner or later, I promise this whole relationship will blow up in your face.

And then all of us "bitter ex-mos" will be sitting here shaking our heads, sighing, and muttering, "I told you so."

;o)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2012 12:28PM by shannon.

I'm back for another comment.

It sounds to me like the two of you have never really talked about religion and beliefs.

It's one thing to say we accept each other and we really enjoy making out - which is fine.

However, the fact that you haven't REALLY talked about religion tells me your relationship is still pretty shallow. As an 18 year old boy I grew up always assuming I would go on a mission. However it was not something I did lightly. There were very deep, important reasons to me other than just that I "should".

I seriously doubt that he is giving up a girl and two years of his life out of pure obedience. I suspect there is a lot more depth to his conversion than he is sharing with you.

So some real advice to you is to quit accepting each other's religion at face value and REALLY talk about it. The two of you are essentially ending your relationship over it. So test the relationship and really talk in depth about your beliefs, convections, etc. If you can do that and not get defensive and truly understand each other then you have a relationship with some depth.

There's a big difference between "I accept you - I don't care, let's go make out" and "I truly want to understand why, what & how you believe". In other words acceptance in a deep relationship really only comes after you know, not just by avoiding the issue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2012 12:05PM by bc.

Be really careful! He may come back from the mission saying it's okay that you don't convert, and he'll say he won't insist on raising kids in TSCC. But the prospect of raising kids can change everything. When you get pregnant you can almost bet that his family will be pressuring you, and he may think that's a good way to raise kids too.

Personally, I'd never get serious about a Mormon guy unless he had formally resigned from the church. If he's not to the point where he can do that, he can easily turn super TBM on ya.

...take it as a good indicator that he'll cave to the pressure of marrying in the temple soon after the mission.

I'm sorry that the LDS church uses the mission as a sort of line-in-the-sand test, pitting itself against any other thing going on in your bf's life (i.e. friends, college, romantic interests). You're not giving him an ultimatum, but his church is! And will continue to do so for the rest of his life.

Let's just pretend for a moment that your bf endures the 2-year cult indoctrination (AKA a mission) and comes back basically the same guy you know today (this is highly, highly unlikely). If he doesn't leave the cult behind soon after returning, the pressure for him to get married ASAP will be much more intense than the pressure he's feeling now regarding his duty to go on a mission. And it's not just pressure to marry--it must be a TEMPLE marriage to a nice TBM girl who will tow the line and cave to pressure as well as he does.

And while the two of you may be politely respecting each others' religious differences now, his indoctrination training at the MTC will be all about removing that inhibition. His mission will be all about overstepping personal boundaries in an attempt to convince others that their religious beliefs are, at best, incomplete or misguided. Depending on where he serves, he will be required to disrespect others' religious beliefs up to 20 times per day (that was the minimum requirement in my mission). And if he can't withstand the pressure to go on a mission, they'll have no trouble getting him to disrespect personal boundaries. He can only do that so many times before he starts to resent himself for being a coward or be convinced that what he's doing is actually good and right. And this is part of the reason why so many nice boys come home as a changed man.

You come across as a smart girl who deserves a guy with at least a little more backbone, who's not been trained from infancy to succomb to authoritarian pressure.