Even when I was an active member of the church I always felt uncomfortable about faith-promoting stories like this one. The message here is that God saved the lives of 6 LDS missionaries returning home to the US when they cancelled their bookings on the Titanic.

http://www.lds.org/church/news/family-celebrates-legacy-of-ancestor-who-booked-then-canceled-passage-on-titanic?lang=eng

These stories did nothing for my faith. They just raised questions. If God really did intervene here why did he allow innocent children to drown? When missionaries die on their missions is that because they weren't faithful enough? Or for that matter why did he allow 6 million Jews to be murdered several decades later?

If you claim that God is intervening to change the course of events in someone's favour, you are by default claiming that God chooses not to intervene in other tragedies that claim the lives of innocent people.

Yes! Thank you. I've been trying to express this for a while - you said it well.

Indeed.
I have always been suspicious of stories where god answers a prayer to (for example) find someone's lost car keys, but ignored the heartfelt cries and prayers of people as they were herded into gas chambers.

It's not just the lds church that promotes these kind of stories either. I remember seeing similar stories about people who survived 9/11.

This is a recent pbs program about the efforts of the engineering crew on the titanic to keeps the lights on as long as possible and give passagers more time to escape the sinking ship.

http://www.pbs.org/programs/saving-titanic/

God couldn't move the iceberg?

So the passengers who survived the sinking, did God help them?

What about all the people these six Missionaries could have helped and saved and blessed had they been on board?

It seems a rather selfish and self absorbed story to me.

'Bad news, Titanic sinks killing hundreds, but on the bright side no Mormons were killed'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2012 08:55AM by Stumbling.

Stories like this are to remind you that God is a jerk and that most people have higher morals then God does.

If you knew hundreds of people were going to die horribly and you could stop it you would..... God would not, he likes it when people drown. It is one of his favorite ways of killing people.

its like on local news channels in utah anytime there is a big natural disaster they have to report that all the missionaries are ok. its not that i dont want the missionaries to be ok but how about the children, and elderly?

That's true, the only thing it seems like Mormons care about after a disaster is that all missionaries were safe. After the tsunami in Japan, news agencies in Utah simply reported that all missionaries in the area were safe and accounted for.

Glad I'm not the only person who is annoyed by these "faith promoting" stories. It's all about trying to tug at human emotions that everyone naturally feels and then saying that you're feeling that way because the "spirit" is witnessing to you that the gospel is true. It can't simply be that the individual was lucky to have the outcome that they did, and that it could have easily turned out so much differently?

My Mom has been rattling off all sorts of these stories to me lately; probably in hopes that it will make me want to start attending SM again.

No dice, lady

...then religion is just a lot of groveling. Believers want a payoff for their devotion. They want their faithfulness to be rewarded -- preferably in this life, as often as possible. And, the more burdensome the belief, they more they crave validation of that belief. They want evidence it's all worth it.

So Mormons talk about their "blessings." Little favors Heavenly Father doles out to his favored children, favors he doesn't give to non-Mormons (so they believe). And they talk about miraculous events so as to say, "See! See! We're not in some goofy man-made religion/cult! God did this for us! God loves us BEST!" There's a reason we call them faith-promoting rumors.

It's like playing the slot machines at a casino (back when they still used coins). You hear the bells and the coins dropping. People are winning! Keep playing! Bing-bing, plinkity-plink! You won a little! WOO! Keep playing because this machine is bound to pay big if you you just keep feeding it. If you give up, someone else will win. On the far side of the casino the bells and sirens and huge rush of coins tell you someone hit the jackpot. YES, YES, it's possible to walk away with a suitcase full of cash! Don't lose faith! Keep playing!

At first I thought you were going to say "they were standing in line to see the movie, when they overheard other teenage boys in line say there were going to be boobies. Even though their tickets were already paid for, they cancelled them and saved themselves from being sent home for pornography."

I think we have it all wrong. I believe God is actually a Sadist, who spared the missionaries because he knew one of them was going to later become a jerk Bishop who was going to destroy peoples lives.

It's because "Jack" played them in a poker game and they lost their tickets. God didn't like Jack and so he let it sink, oh and Rose was supposed to freeze because of her nude pose, but she found a way to survive...until death finally caught up with her later similar to FINAL DESTINATION. :)

When the six missionaries cancelled their Titanic bookings, that made those tickets available to other people. So it is reasonable to assume that other people died because the Mormons were saved.

The problem with faith promoting stories is that they fail to mention various possible reasons why the missionaries cancelled their tickets. The fact that they did cancel is not proof that God intervened in their behalf.

A real miracle would have been something like this: five minutes before the time when the Titanic would run into the iceberg, the Titanic's controls mysteriously went crazy and turned the ship hard to port, so that the collision was averted. But God is not powerful enough or smart enough to cause something like that to happen.

Faith promoting stories never look at what kind of action God could have taken (but didn't) to avert the whole tragedy in the first place.

My explanation is simple: THERE IS NO GOD!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2012 11:24AM by steve benson.

Yes.thes estories aren't faith promoting stories but faith destroying stories.

I remember my mission president talking about how he had been able to figure out to draw something he had been struggling to draw correctly and attributed it to the whisperings of the Spirit, in other words divine inspiration. Yes, God is the king of the trivial and banal answer for the self- righteous few which makes him far too busy to deal with anything of substance. What a monstrous sort of god this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...if six missionaries had DIED on Titanic the FPR would be that god placed them there to heroically save many lives and if they could selflessly sacrifice their very LIVES in service to others, then how blessed we will be by paying our tithes and following the promptings of our leaders to answer their call to serve....

And what if those same missionaries later left the church and denounced it?

Would they even give you the latter part of this story if that happened to be the case?

I hated the 'finding keys' stories in church lessons and it was a big put off for me hearing that Mormon God will find my keys for me while other people are being killed and raped around the world. I'd rather not pray to find my lost keys and prefer 'God' to get his priorities right.

When I walk into my home I hang my keys on the hook by the door. That way I don't lose them and God is available for more important things.
:)

Satan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t
I think you built my car. You can have it back.

So what? I don't give much credit to a dude who won't save victims of pedophiles and rapists from abuse and assault and murder.

is there proof of the cancellations?

There is more recorded history of that voyage than any other ship in history beside the jaredite barges..

seem there should be a paper trail to see if this is just a faith promoting story or truth..

inquiring minds would like to know.

Ah, but the story (?) didn't say "No Mormons were killed" (did it?).

With the third class conditions the way they were.. I doubt if the ship sailed at capacity in a strict sense. However, according to SOLAS (safety of life at sea) as we now have it, they were over-capacity.

Yes, mormon lives are Always more valuable than others, just as one of those Crazy preachers (PR?) prayed that an approaching hurricane hit the coast 'somewhere else'.

The first one occurred quite a few years ago when I picked up a group of gals from a wedding party on Temple Square. They were quite excited and asked me if I had heard what happened the day before. I hadn't...

So one of them proceeded to tell me how a gust of wind came up and snatched the veil off of a bride's head and lifted it up into the air about twenty feet where it whirled around for a time and then descended slowly so that some of the men in the party were able to catch it...

I believe the girls did hear that one...

The second one was told to me a former scout who was present at the event. Seems it was a Saturday, and the Scoutmaster owned a boat and took the troop up for an afternoon of water sking and picnicking on one of Utah's reservoirs.

A little thunder squall blew in suddenly, and a flash of lightening struck somewhere close with a loud peal of thunder.

The scoutmaster, who was wearing his bathing suit, suddenly went white and muttered "I could've got us killed!" He disappeared into the boat's cabin and emerged presently wearing his garments under his swimsuit.

He spent the rest of the day driving his boat and water skiing in that attire, and there were no further incidents.

I believe this one, too...

another LDS faith promoter or NOT

Where was the man on this one?... Well Sh*t just happens

seven Boy Scouts Killed from Provo Explorer Post 36 and six adults. Twenty-six others were injured.

http://www.byhigh.org/History/HoleintheRock/Hole-in-the-Rock.html

How about the LDS missionaries being struck and dying on their bicycles in Texas?

Was Susan Powell not eligible for this 'protection'? Mark Hackings wife?

For any credibility these stories need to be consistant.

I dont know about the Titanic but the 6 millon is a lie directly out of hell. Proove the 6 mill lie. You cant.

Of course, the Jews were never hurt. They were well fed in the camps and well treated, until the awful British and American bombers cut off the food supplies.

If you believe that, I've got several bridges you might be interested in buying!

I spent my mission in Germany and spoke to multiple people, both Mormons and non-Mormons, who knew of the conditions in the camps. They were as horrible as anything in the history books and then some! Where do you think all of Europe's Jewish people disappeared to? Do you think they went to the North Pole and living in the hole that goes to the center of the earth?

So go around saying things like that and making your little Nazi salutes and saying "Sieg Heil!" You wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in a KZ. They would have sent you directly from the train to the "showers" because you're to weak to do the work!


Schaffner

I personally knew a guy who did several years in prison, because he was a clerk at one of the extermination camps. He was deeply embarrassed and ashamed about what he had did, even though he claimed to have taken no direct part in cruelty himself. He stated that what happened at the camps was far worse then could be imagined, and that one of his jobs was measuring and weighing the gold fillings taken from the mouths of Jewish victims, after they had been murdered.

Something good happens to you or someone who believes the same things as you = a blessing from God.

Something bad happens to someone who doesn't believe the same things as you = proof that you're right about God.

Something bad happens to you or someone who believes the same things as you = God works in mysterious ways.

Something good happens to someone who doesn't believe the same things as you = God's not involved; sometimes things just happen.

There was a line of people sobbing by a news placard that said: Titanic disaster."

A man approached the head of the queue, he had a sobbing Polar Bear on a rope. The man said: "Yes, that's all very well... but do you have any news on the iceberg?"

First of all if god intervenes in every disaster people would not have freedom to chose - they would know that god would immediately punish, save, what have you for all good or bad deeds, prayers, requests, etc. The captain of the Titanic made an unwise decision to motor at high speed during a time where he knew there may be iceburgs and on a calm evening where the lapping of waves against iceburgs would not be seen. Instead he wanted to arrive in New York ahead of schedule to show off and look grandiose. His decision cost him his life and the lives of 1500 other people. I really doubt that the missionary story, but I do believe that god intervenes, blesses people, gives guidance, etc. In the end god will make judgement and justice will be properly, equally and righteously delivered.

It's a simple formula:

Mormon survives accident/illness = miracle, the LDS Church is true!
Mormon dies from accident/illness = called to serve as missionary in the spirit world.