Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: baura ( )
Date: April 07, 2012 05:33PM

Early after my epiphany that Mormonism was bogus back in the spring of 1978, a fellow exmo that I met made the statement that "history is anti-Mormon."

I said, "you mean Mormon history?"

"No," he replied, "history."

At the time I didn't understand what he meant but as time went on and I learned how to free my mind from the Mormon way of thinking (evidenced so strongly these days by apologists) I began to see what he meant.

So today I'm watching a lecture on a "Great Courses" course on "Human Prehistory and the First Civilizations." I'm about 17 minutes into lecture 31 when the professor says the following:


"It's very interesting to note that between about 500 B.C. and A.D. 400 elaborate mortuary cults flourished over a wide area of the eastern woodlands. They were marked by a frenzy of earthwork and burial mound construction. And it is these earthworks which caused a major controversy in the 19th century.

"When the first European settlers came over to the Appalachians and the Alleghanys and started cultivating and clearing the forests in the Ohio Valley, they came across all these earthworks, and the few Indians who still survived there had no idea who had built them. And there came into being this myth of the "mound builders"--of an ancient European civilization that had built these earthworks and had created a now-vanished, highly civilized culture in the midwest, only to be wiped out by incoming Indians.

"This racist theory was very popular in the popular literature in the 19th century and it was not effectively disproven and shown that the mounds were, in fact, built by Native Americans until the very end of the nineteenth century."

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=380

In other words, the basic structural story of the Book of Mormon was a "very popular" idea running around America in the early 1800s. But it was later proven false.


This "mound-builders myth" was a clear influence on another book that gets mentioned--"View of the Hebrews." In View of the Hebrews we find:

"The probability then is this; that the ten tribes, arriving in this continent with some knowledge of the arts of civilized life; finding themselves in a vast wilderness filled with the best of game, inviting them to the chase; most of them fell into a wandering idle hunting life. Different clans parted from each other, lost each other, and formed separate tribes. Most of them formed a habit of this idle mode of living, and were pleased with it. More sensible parts of this people associated together, to improve their knowledge of the arts; and probably continued thus for ages. From these the noted relics of civilization discovered in the west and south, were furnished. But the savage tribes prevailed; and in process of time their savage jealousies and rage annihilated their more civilized brethren. And thus, as a holy vindictive Providence would have it, and according to ancient denunciations, all were left in an “outcast” savage state. This accounts for their loss of the knowledge of letters, of the art of navigation, and of the use of iron. And such a loss can no more operate against their being of the ten tribes, than against their being of any other origin. Yea, we cannot so well account for their evident degeneracy in any other way, as that it took place under a vindictive Providence, as has been noted, to accomplish divine judgments denounced against the idolatrous ten tribes of Israel.

"It is highly probable that the more civilized part of the tribes of Israel, after they settled in America, became wholly separated from the hunting and savage tribes of their brethren; that the latter lost the knowledge of their having descended from the same family with themselves; that the more civilized part continued for many centuries; that tremendous wars were frequent between them and their savage brethren, till the former became extinct."
--Ethan Smith, "View of the Hebrews" 1825 edition, p. 130.

Note that in Ethan Smith's version of the mound-builders myth the "Europeans" have become Hebrews, just as Joseph Smith was to do in his version of the mound-builders myth (The Book of Mormon) later.

This is the stuff that was "in the air" in Joseph Smith's time and place when the Book of Mormon came forth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2012 05:36PM by baura.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: April 07, 2012 06:34PM

Thank you Baura, that was fascinating. I've had View of the Hebrews forever but never got around to reading it.

If there's anything else in the book as good as what you just shared, I've got to read it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: brian-the-christ ( )
Date: April 07, 2012 06:57PM

I'm sure he'll embrace facts over myth and finally get the church on the right path.

He's always been so willing to admit when the church has erred in doctrine.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: tevainotloggedin ( )
Date: April 07, 2012 07:12PM

I love this course!!!

I got it on CD (because I play them when I'm working in the kitchen, or scrubbing walls, or cleaning bathrooms...or most any other kind of "brainless" work that is necessary for me to do). I'm sure the DVD's are much better (because of the visuals), but I don't have time enough to sit and WATCH, and I definitely need intellectual input when I'm doing routine housework or I start to go nuts--so it's CD's for me.

For the first time in my life I have what I have always yearned for, what I have always called "The Timeline" [with the capital letters!], in my head: starting with our ancestral primates, then going to the initial split of the chimpanzee line from what became the hominid line (of which we, homo sapiens sapiens are the current result)...and then continuing through the successive kinds of human beings which resulted in "us," the species we are right now...and then finishing with a very good view of the earlier civilizations from Africa, Asia, the "Middle East," Europe, and the Americas (including great scientific and archaeolological information about the various American Indian groups).

Totally fantastic course!!!

There is a caveat (which Professor Fagan continually refers to throughout the course): new scientific information is being discovered and UNcovered all of the time, continuously, so there are a few specifics in this course that have since been superseded by new scientific and academic findings. These are probably minor by most people's standards (a couple are irritating by MY standards! ;-) ). This course was recorded in either 2002 or 2003, so a decade of scientific and academic progress has occurred since then--but this would be true of any fast-moving academic field, so you just roll with it when it happens.

That aside, this is one of the all time most valuable things I have ever bought for myself...and I can pretty much guarantee that if you use it like I do (as interesting material when you do repetitive, "mindless" work) you will be SO GLAD you got this! (And if you play it with your kids around, they will--without even REALIZING it!--be learning an immense amount of information not only about this subject, but about what an adult approach to education itself is like.)

www.thegreatcourses.com (And if you have ever wanted to learn about classical music, check out Robert Greenberg's many different courses, some of which changed my husband's and my lives forever.)

P.S. You need to know: Every course created by The Great Courses/The Teaching Company goes on sale at least once a year at 70% off--sometimes even more, and sometimes with free S&H. Get on their email list and, throughout the year, you will know what is on sale when. I think I only paid full price once (my initial purchase, because I didn't know any better back then). After that, I've never bought anything that wasn't at least 70% off.

The Great Courses (formerly: The Teaching Company)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lucky ( )
Date: April 07, 2012 08:45PM

the MORmON church would likely have anywhere from 2 to 5 times more members today IF Joe Smith would have been able to control himself sexually. Brigham younG robbed, raped, ruined, and murdered more LDS than any mob ever did. so who are the real anti MORmONS?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1car5aCGE6E

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: munchybotaz ( )
Date: April 07, 2012 10:00PM

I never absorbed it in the short time I was forced to participate but instead, because I had no choice, went along in "Oh, really?" mode, questioning and half-knowing that my parents had heads up asses. Hate to think if I had studied and believed and gotten with the program. I'd be so angry.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Don Bagley ( )
Date: April 07, 2012 10:04PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 07, 2012 10:19PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: baura ( )
Date: April 08, 2012 12:11AM

Ha ha! When I heard that Colbert quote, that's the first thing that popped into my mind

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Cabbie (not logged in) ( )
Date: April 08, 2012 09:23PM

Okay, I'll swap you for a free cab ride...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: different ( )
Date: April 08, 2012 10:27PM

Truth is anti-mormon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: heftmyplates ( )
Date: April 08, 2012 10:54PM

abso-friggin-lutely!

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **    **  **    **  ********   ********   *******  
  **  **   ***   **  **     **  **        **     ** 
   ****    ****  **  **     **  **        **     ** 
    **     ** ** **  ********   ******     ******** 
    **     **  ****  **     **  **               ** 
    **     **   ***  **     **  **        **     ** 
    **     **    **  ********   ********   *******