http://blog.lotusopening.com/2010/03/mormon-bishop-glenn-pace-charges-utah.html

If it is a true report then it is horrific. Words are not enough to describe how I'd feel if this happened to any member of my family.

Briggy

It is an actual report made by Glenn Pace. Whether what the alleged abuse victims told him was true or not is another question.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 05:46AM by baura.

I recall the Ritual (satanic) abuse cases in the UK, in the 80's and 90's........ the true horror was the power that social services had to be judge, jury and executioner (metaphorically).

Many of the cases have been investigated and the conclusion is that ritualistic satanic abuse was present, only in the minds of certain highly placed social service people.

This case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ronaldsay_child_abuse_scandal was the focus of a detailed BBC documentary which showed that the chief of the social services was the driving force behind a witch hunt based on her own deep seated belief in ritualistic satanic abuse.

I am not saying that it doesnt happen, but a blog page by a random bishop does not make me believe it does happen

It's not a blog page by a random Bishop.

It is a transcript of the following:

On 19 July 1990, Elder Glenn L Pace, then a counselor in the Presiding Bishopric, sent a memo to the "Strengthening Church Members Committee" on the subject of "Ritualistic Child Abuse."

sorry, yes, you're correct.

However, there is nothing to say what expertise the bishop has in dealing with abuse survivors, or what he expected to find.

As in the Orkney case - I am sure the social workers there were trained, and may even had some experience with dealing with *normally* abused children, but they became compromised when they were primed to *specifically look for* satanic abuse, and were expected to find it, regardless of any inconvenient facts.

I don't think the Bishop in question (part of the presiding Bishopric of the Church) was doing anything other than investigating and reporting back to the SCMC. He does state that Bishops and Stake Presidents and Area Authorities are insufficiently trained to handle cases of abuse like the ones he reported on.

He mentions 2 other reports, does anyone know anything about those?

Freaky. I grew up in the heart of Utah County and we often heard little stories about occult activities in the foothills around us. Not until I was in my 20s did I hear a couple of specific stories (one from a believable source, the other not so much) about ritualistic abuse. Once, in high school, a friend of mine and I were driving in a remote location in Highland late at night and came across about 20 individuals dressed in dark robes all lying down randomly on the ground. We had to drive a big loop around them to get out of there as fast as we could. They never stirred, it was weird.

From the letter:

"I'm sorry to say that many of the victims have had their first flashbacks while attending the temple for the first time. The occult along the Wasatch Front uses the doctrine of the Church to their advantage. For example, the verbiage and gestures are used in a ritualistic ceremony in a very debased and often bloody manner. When the victim goes to the temple and hears the exact words, horrible memories are triggered. We have recently been disturbed with members of the Church who have talked about the temple ceremony."

I've heard rumors that one of the reasons that the temple ceremony was changed was becasue of this. The Pace letter is dated July 1990...the temple changes happened in April 1990.

This is absolutely atrocious. Mormon or not, family or not, the abuse of children is unforgivable. This just scared the crap out of me and made me feel sick to my stomach. How can anyone abuse their power in such a way and get away with it. I hope kharma comes around in a big way on this. I'm just disgusted. Thanks for posting, I'm going to dig a little deeper.

This may be the most disturbing thing I've ever read:

"For example, the first memory might be of incest, then they remember robes and candles; next they realize that their father or mother or both were present when they were being abused. Another layer will be the memory of seeing other people hurt and even killed. Then they remember having seen babies killed. Another layer is realizing that they participated in the sacrifices. One of the most painful memories may be that they even sacrificed their own baby."

And where are the adults that were doing this?

This is an extremely serious problem that a lot of people don't think is real.

When my son was in high school, he had a girlfriend who tried to recruit him into a group that I suspect was doing this same kind of thing. They had several kids that were trying to put together a group. They had an older guy in his 30's that was their leader. He was very charismatic and teenagers were very attracted to him.

I had to take some pretty drastic steps to extricate my son from this situation. There were several people who thought I was overreacting. That is until they found out their children were
also being recruited.

I ended up having to remove my son from the situation by moving. We moved 2000 miles away.Lucky for us, this was before everyone had cell phones and computers. He went through therapy that would probably be similar to deprogramming someone out of a cult. Once he was out of it and had therapy he told me all of the stuff that was going on. Downright terrifying. I could have lost him to this group so easily. I'm so glad I "overreacted" and got him out.

Don't think this only happens in big cities. We lived in a little midwest town that looked like it was straight out of a norman rockwell painting. There was a literally a church on every corner, and had a population of only 4,000



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 01:12PM by Mia.

A guy organizing a satanic church in order to sacrifice babies to the Dark Lord of the Abyss. I don't buy that. A 30 year old man starting a crack pot religion so he can sleep with teenage girls, that on the other hand is believable.

There have been a couple documented cases of killings, involving vampire cults, but the victims are almost always adults, or other teenagers, who the leader of the cult had personal animosity with.

Cults do kill, but ritualistic abuse is far fetched. If you want to know how cults really act, and abuse, look at the Church during the Brigham Young years.

They were doing ritualistic animal killings. 30 year old guy was just one of a group of adults.

Just think how much the lds church blames Satan for trends in society it doesn't like. It's Satan that will drive your children away from the true church. Add the secrecy of the church's temple rituals and a few unstable members, and I can see how such ritualistic abuse could happen.

but ask SL Cabbie or Steve Benson.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 01:13PM by wine country girl.

only wanted to upset the rest of us.

Let's hide the many first-person accounts and get our ostrich heads pushed back into sand on this topic.

Since most (if not all) of them, were "remembered" by the vics after they were treated for "repressed memory sundrome", some skepticism is in order here.

Some of the woman who remembered giving birth to children and then sacrificing them were virgins or didn't have any of the evidence of ever giving birth/miscarrying.

Below, FBC is correct about the Church of Satan.

There are people who practice Satan/devil worship (it is different that Satanism, believe it or not) and I have no doubts they do some horrendous actions, but it's not a country-wide conspiracy.

In the 70's and 80's there was a lot of hysteria around Satan/devil worship...Anyone remember the Blue Star acid hoax?

Also, keep in mind, seeing people in dark robes performing a ritual does not equal devil worship- They could be pagans/Wiccans performing their own rites which have nothing to do with Satan/devil worship, no matter what Xtian's think.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 02:11PM by Itzpapalotl.

Anyone who didn't remember living through it should Google "MacMartin Trial".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 02:12PM by helamonster.

Sorry. Not one.

May not be true. However pedophiles ofyen try and get volunteer jobs or join churches to give them a good public image and some access to children. There is a theory that Satanic practices are are found more in the rich who are bored and jaded.

I know of a convert lady (I know because I was there) who went to the temple for first time and refused to come back to church afterwards- she had been abused (which no-one knew) and said the temple brought so much of it back.

The FBI has done extensive investigations, and as of today, has never been able to find proof of the existence of Satanic Cults that practice either abuse or human sacrifice as part of their religion. Upon investigating the rumors of such groups, it has always been found that they were the creation of local imaginations, who were trying to prove the existence of evil in their mist.1

In fact, the Church of Satan itself is more of a fraternity for atheist, who take it all tongue in cheek, then an actual religion that believes in the devil. To be a true Satanist, one would have to both believe there is a God, then decide they wanted to be on the other side.

Christian religions that abuse children as part of their way of life however, are all too common.

Anyone who has ever read/seen Harry Potter is a satan worshiper.

Ipso Facto.

When did you convert to Southern Baptist?

Interesting opinion from Wikipedia:

SRA {Satanic Ritual Abuse} is considered a moral panic and compared to the blood libel and witch-hunts of historical Europe,and McCarthyism in the United States during the 20th century.Stanley Cohen, who originated the term "moral panic," called the episode "one of the purest cases of moral panic." The initial investigations of SRA were performed by anthropologists and sociologists, who failed to find evidence of SRA actually occurring; instead they concluded that SRA was a result of rumors and folk legends that were spread by "media hype, Christian fundamentalism, mental health and law enforcement professionals and child abuse advocates." Sociologists and journalists noted the vigorous nature with which some evangelical activists and groups were using claims of SRA to further their religious and political goals. Other commentators suggested that the entire phenomenon may be evidence of a moral panic over Satanism and child abuse. Skeptical explanations for allegations of SRA have included an attempt by "radical feminists" to undermine the nuclear family, a backlash against working women, homophobic attacks on gay childcare workers, a universal need to believe in evil, fear of alternative spiritualities, "end of the millennium" anxieties, or a transient form of temporal lobe epilepsy.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 02:11PM by 3X.

Whatever may or may not have happened, I'm disinclined to believe the human sacrifice angle, as people, even babies, just don't disappear without serious investigations. Physical and sexual abuse -- I'm sure that has happened with some "Satanic" trappings involved.

After reading this, it reminds me of a comment my hubby made about his ex-wife. When she was a young teen, her parents took her to a home of some "witch doctor" (his quote per the ex-wife's comment) who lived close by - small town in the boonies in Idaho. She always said something happened there, but she couldn't remember what happened. He probed her many times and she would just tell him to leave it alone. (He has often felt that she was perhaps sexually abused by this man.)

In my personal dealings with the ex (I think she's bat sh-t crazy) I have found her to be EXTREMELY odd over things that MUST be kept a secret. I always felt from her that there was this HUGE secret she was keeping from everyone and no one was to find out. I always wondered - what the hell??!!

Anybody remember the book "Jay's Journal" from the 1970s? It was supposedly based on the true story of a Utah teen who became involved with a Satanic group and then committed suicide.

The book was later debunked. Utah County is full of rumors and stories about such groups, but nobody ever has any first-hand experience (just like all those FPRs about the Three Nephites).

Pagans, by definition, do not believe in Satan. Satan is exclusive to Christian theology; in fact, Christianity couldn't exist without him. There are people who worship Satan, but they cannot be considered Pagans.

However, it's entirely possible that there are Christians who have decided to react against Christianity by worshiping Satan -- and it wouldn't be too much of a surprise if they secretly met in LDS church buildings.

I feel bad for anyone who suffered abuse, but Pace's descriptions sound sensationalized -- and like they were lifted from pop fiction of the 1970s and 80s. Were his allegations true, ritualists would need empty graves in which to threaten to bury the kids, tanks of water in which to pretend to drown them, altars on which to slay their sacrificial victims, etc. Of course, there would be lots of blood. Yet Pace insists, "sometimes the abuse has taken place in our own meetinghouses."

They must have cleaned up after themselves really, really well.

He wrote this in 1990, during the time period when repressed memory therapy was at its height.

I am not disrespecting anyone who has suffered abuse, but Pace's account sounds more like it was meant to whip the sheeple into an anti-occult frenzy -- and keep them in line.

Two other points:
1. Pace assumes "the spiritual healing which must take place in the lives of these victims cannot happen without their priesthood leaders understanding something about it."

What arrogance! He assumes that the victim cannot heal without their priesthood leader.

2. One of his core concerns: "Should they have a temple recommend?"

Not, "What can we do to catch the perpetrators? How can we keep kids and teens safe from corrupt ward and stake leaders? How do we get the victims to licensed therapists?" but, "Should they go to the temple?" (where, presumably the perpetrators have already been, since they mimic parts of the endowment).

Unbelievable!

http://www.rickross.com/reference/satanism/satanism1.html

This is the link to the FBI report.

The SRA scare came out of the memory wars of the 1980s and 1990s and is over. Virtually all cases were found to be examples of social contagion and there were never any verified cases found.

They are in the same category as alien abductions/probes/experiments - and boy are there some lurid alien accounts.

Sadly a number of innocent men went to prison. A good case to follow - where the supposed accused actually came to believe that he must have done it while satan had had blanked out his memories - is the Paul Ingram case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurston_county_ritual_abuse_case

What the link doesn't mention is that medical checks on the daughters revealed that not only had they had no children or disease, but they were still virgins. If you follow the links at the bottom of the wiki site, you will get more detailed info on the case. it is bloody scary. It is clear absolutely nothing happened, but the fundamentalist mindset of the police and all the participants set the whole thing rolling.


People will always have nightmares, fears, or sleep disorders, and depending on their belief systems they will explain them in different ways, and validate them by scaring other people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis