It occurred to me today. I remember Steve benson's story about his grandfather, the mouse, and the fire. Then, there's the story that will not die about Mitt Romney strapping his dog Seamus' car carrier to the roof of the car prior to a family road trip.

So, are high mucky-muck penishood holders all this callous? Is there something in mormon royal culture that desensitizes the men to animal cruelty?

And even more frightening is the thought that anyone this callous toward animals will probably have little or no compassion for people, either...

Whenever I think of Benson I think of the mouse story as well.

The cruelty to animals is common among extreme fundamentalists. That right wing fundamentalism is called Dominionism and is very active in politics today.

It holds that the earth and all living plants and animals are hear to serve mankind. They hold no intrinsic value in themselves. It goes hand and glove with the idea that there are disposable people. You do know that Mormons believe some people are placed here as, shall we say, "extras?" (no doubt due to lack of valiancy in the pre-existence, i.e., their own fault).

I am sure the academics on this board have plenty of references for the explanations of third world suffering offered by spiritual giants like Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and those who followed in their narcissistic steps.

Anagrammy

anagrammy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It goes hand and
> glove with the idea that there are disposable
> people. You do know that Mormons believe some
> people are placed here as, shall we say, "extras?"
> (no doubt due to lack of valiancy in the
> pre-existence, i.e., their own fault).
>
I have seen hints of this-- perhaps the belief is that such souls had no pre-existence? Where in LDS teachings was such a belief articulated?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2012 03:00PM by me.

Let me start another thread to explore the interesting question of some disposable humans.

Ana :)

I don't know about the rest of the GA's, but there seems to be an indifferent attitude to animal abuse in Utah. Frankly, I'm suprised making animal abuse a felony passed some years ago. A lot of the backwoods, redneck jackasses have no problems with shooting other people's pets, drowning unwanted litters, or other cruelty.

It's not like there's a strong enforcement of the laws either. Last time I checked, there was 1 (!!!!) animal cruelty investigator for the whole screwed up state.

I could be wrong, but it may come from an old farming mentality.

My grandparents lived on a ranch. They had cats to keep the mice population down. If the cat population got too high, my grandfather would take the newest ones and drown them. Thought nothing of it. Kicking the dog, whipping the horse, beating your kids and cattle, no big deal. How else are you going to keep all these lesser entities in line?

Later in life, when people started to call him out on this behavior he would get pissed. Tell people to mind their own business, they had no idea how to handle animals.

Ga's are about my parents age. They were raised with this mentality.My parents would tell me what a bad parent I was because i wouldn't hit my kids. I'm sure they would be appalled at the way I treat my dog.

He'd grumble and complain mightily when his kids and grandkids left pets at his place, but he usually wound up taking much better care of them than they'd get otherwise.

He also went ballistic when he saw the way his Utah neighbors would treat their horses and dogs.

As nasty as my FIL was to people, he was a big softee with animals...

and he fed all the stray cats on the farm--and would find homes for the ones who the others beat up on. He did raise sheep (he got them for us as kids) and once in a while he did hit the ram--after it butted him and knocked him down.

BUT my brothers and sisters will vouch for the fact that his DOGS--he loved his dogs more than his kids. We didn't mind. He loved my dogs, too--it is something he and I shared.

And I'm in Colorado part of the time living with my boyfriend--there have been several shootings of dogs here by policemen for no reason that I can tell.

My mother is the GA's age and she has an appalling attitude towards animals. She spent her early childhood on a Utah farm (before she was adopted out) and was raised with the attitude you described. She let an elderly cat that was my sister's starve to death instead of putting her down. The other cat got cancer because my mom refused to take him to the vet for care. She won't say it, but I know she thinks it's a waste of money to take care of pets properly.

She has never understood my overwhelming love for animals and thinks it's disgusting that I kiss, hold, and sleep with my cat.

My parents would never spend money on an animal if they could help it.

They had a dog die from an easily treated ear infection.
A horse die from preventable foot problems.
A couple of dogs got ran over. no biggie, go get another one.

They should not be allowed to have animals IMO.

I don't recall ever seeing affection shown to an animal, or their kids for that matter.

Amish people!

They have that attitude too, that animals have no souls so who cares.

Well there went what little tolerance I had for the Amish...

I don't think this is a Mormon thing. I see a lot of the same attitudes here in my part of Florida.

I wrote letters but of course it was a waste of time.

Must protect businesses at all costs! Mormons have no concern for animal welfare at least in Utah.

I don't think it's just a Mormon thing, as religious fundamentalists either view animals as soulless, or put here to serve mankind. Sometimes in Quiverfull families, they have animals that are neglected, especially when they keep having children and struggle to feed them.

I'm so glad you posted this. It has been on my mind for quite some time.

I grew up on a farm. The cruel things i witnessed being done to farm animals as a kid made me unbelievably sick. ex.. We raised many of the animals for meat. My dad used to take care of the butchering himself. I had stand there wait for him to kill skin and gut the animal.. he would put it in a giant metal bowl, and I had run it into the kitchen to my mom to finish cleaning. I watched my father several times just start gutting and skinning rabbits alive. and YES, he was an abusive jerk!! I could literally go on & on about other events, but i wont. I just cannot stand to watch animal cruelty, let alone be the cause of it's suffering. Even now, if i catch a mouse in a sticky trap i will drown it first so its not left in the garbage to die a horrible death.



The thing that really bothers me now though, is that my DH has the same lack of any empathy or compassion for animals and even people. I HATE that about him,.. ok i LOATH that about him!!.. His brothers are all like that too. Last summer while we were camping one of his grown brothers was showing the kids how to burn the eyes out of live a grasshopper skewered on a stick. When i saw what was happening I went over and made them kill it. The kids went and found another one and started doing it again, i told them they better kill it first so it wouldn't suffer.. then one of the other BIL's started reaming me, & telling me to just let them do it. Another time when DH & BIL's went camping the took out a machine gun and were laughing their heads off about how it just saw's the jack rabbits in half and sends all the entrails and undeveloped baby rabbits flying everywhere. I just cannot comprehend finding joy or happiness in killing or causing suffering to something. He was physically abused growing up, I understand that, so was I. But, i am complete opposite of what i was raised with.

Bad karma coming...

I have a no-mo friend that had the same attitude of pets not having souls. She has cats and loves them but she clearly believes that they are here for her "use".

My mother loved animals and raised dogs for a while. I guess my Dad tolerated it at the time. We had a stray cat that had kittens in our garage and the mom cat was hit by a car. My mom had us feeding the kittens with droppers so that they would not die. Unfortunately, she passed away a year or two later. The cats were outdoors. My dad hated it if they got in the house. He remarried and my step mom was not fond of animals. Never once did my parents think to have the cats spayed or neutered. They never took them to the vet, even if they were sick. Most of our neighbors didn't take their pets to the vet either. Once my mom was gone I was the only one in my family that truly seemed to care about the cats. One day my Dad made me go with him to take the last two we had to the pound. It was a horrible thing for him to do. It's terrible to be powerless in that situation because you're "just a kid". I knew what their fate would be. They were great cats and I loved them so much. I don't think I will ever completely forgive my dad for that. He tried to make me feel better by buying me an ice cream cone. I was devastated and I am crying just thinking about it.

I know I am trying to over-compensate now. I have six cats. It's a lot but I would not have it any other way. They are well cared for and have a great home. If I won the lotto I'd open a shelter and hire loving people to help me take care of them. It pains me to see people continue to let their pets breed. Please get them fixed. There are millions of pets that need and deserve a good home. There wouldn't be so many if people would be more responsible and not abandon them so easily. It's amazing how there are people that claim to love their pets so much but the minute they encounter a bit of hardship, the pets are the first thing to go.

I am not an animal lover myself. On the other hand, I don't own any for that very reason. If you don't value something, then why in the hell would you own it? I've never understood having pets and not treating them properly, yet I've met tons of people who have cats and dogs, only to treat them like utter shit.

I just don't get it. I don't even like animals, and I would never torture or neglect one. You would have to be a real asshole to treat an animal badly. No other explanation.

I agree with this 100%. Animals are not for everybody. But that doesn't mean you should hurt them. If you have acquired one and don't want it, most shelters will take them. And not just cats and dogs either.

I have seen the same thing. We are familiar with some mormon family acquaintences who have a very disposable attitude towards pets. With one family, the kids were crying because the parents got rid of their dog. Why? Because their neighbors at their vacation house didn't like the dog being out in the yard. The mother felt that it was more important to keep vacation home neighbors as friends, rather than let the kids keep their pet.

Another mormon family gave away their dog when they found out it wasn't a pure breed. Later on they sold their guinea pig at a garage sale because they were too busy to take care of it.

Yet another mormon family that's very active in the church has a teenage son ( who is also active in church ) who goes on Facebook and brags out going into the woods and shooting birds and rabbits for fun.

It's like the time I remember a couple of women complaining about some mormon guys they know. How these guys once kicked a dog yet walked around acting like they were good men because they don't smoke or drink.

I recall, among all the nonsense, the temple film saying that man was put on earth to have dominion over all other creatures. I've only been a couple of times so I'm sure some of the poor unfortunates who went a lot can remember what it says verbatim.

...is widespread among most of the fundamentalist type churches, including Mormonism. This lack of compassion for the rest of creation is apparent in their political views as well, as noted in the Humane Society of the United States analysis of Congressional voting records. It shows that conservative Republican Senators and Congresspersons always have the lowest levels of support for animal protection legislation, whereas liberal Democratic legislators usually are rated very highly for their support of animal protection legislation. These anti-animal politicians are typically Mormon, evangelical Protestant, and conservative Catholic. They all have one thing in common: They are usually unconcerned about protecting animals from cruelty and suffering. The issue just isn't on their radar screens. But they just love God so much!

I agree. Animal cruelty is a clear sign of mental disorder and family dysfunction. Our Mormon Royalty family did have a few pets, but if they got sick or pregnant, they had to be "put to sleep." I cried bitter tears, just hearing about it. "Animals are to serve humans--not the other way around," they would tell me. My brother who beat me also would torture little creatures in front of me. I have PTSD bigtime. The temple husband who beat me also killed some neighborhood pets. It I had known about that, I would never have dated him, much less marry him. My daughters would not date hunters.

Mormons are backwards. In the caveman days, critters were for food, and women were for breeding. Mormons still believe that the environment is meant for human consumption. Entitlement dictates that they need not give anything back.

My policeman friend says that psychopaths like Dahmer always, always have a history of animal abuse. Perhaps narcissists do, too.

In my posts about how to avoid Mormons, I alway mention walking your dog, or going to a dog park, or dog or cat show, or to browse at pet stores. No Mormons there. Also, to annoy door-knocking Mormons, I would give them a brochure for an animal charity, and ask them to please donate. They would look at me like I was crazy, but they would shut up and leave!

We had a neighbor years ago, a total Molly Mormon, who made her six kids give away the dog they adored because "he was dirty and would jump up on me." Her husband said he was on the mom's side because the kids would love her no matter what - that their mom's feelings were more important than having a dog. Here's an idea. Train the dog not to jump up and make your kids bathe him. It was really just because she was squeamish - she should have just told them no in the first place because she knew she was like that.

A born and raised Utah Mormon I know now keeps her dog outside in all kinds of weather, in a very small dog run. She can't wait for it to die and she'll tell you if you ask about the dog. She inherited him when her father died and since the dog was about 9 years old at the time, she figured she'd only have to put up with it a couple of years. It used to break out of it's dog run and roam the neighborhood until they got a hefty fine from animal control. It hadn't been registered or given shots for years but in her defense, the dog doesn't seem to be starved and it's dog run is clean and has a nice doghouse in it. What bugs me is how she openly can't wait for it to die so she doesn't have to take care of it any more.

I think that the measure of a person is how you treat those who are smaller, weaker, or less fortunate than you.

+1.

right now TSCC is the dog on top of romneys car - like it or not he's taking them for a ride

all the sh!t they're spewing while trying to keep up doesn't phase mittens in the least

i just wonder what mormonism will look like after rMoney gets around to hosing it off...

This topic is depressing...we never had pets growing up due to money/living space, but now I own two hamsters and co-own a ton of others with my roommates. Most are small animals, and I have and would take a hamster to the vet. I honestly thought that my time in my faith gave me MORE belief in the small and wonderful things. My animals are a huge blessing to me no matter how small they are. It doesn't make you powerful to abuse animals. Most domestic animals only want love and are even very forgiving to people who treat them awful. If you can't learn from that, I personally think it's just sick.

Do dogs really like to NOT be up on top of the roof getting a nice breeze like a Harley Davidson motorcycle rider? Personally I'd love to drive a Harley but don't because (a) I have slow reflexes, (b) I've seen and heard too many horror stories about motorcyclists and I want to live a long healthy life. But back to Seamus the dog. Is this really abuse? Just a FYI that I've never thought about doing the same with my dog.

The dog was sick and on the roof for a 12 hours.

If so, perhaps Mitt should try strapping himself to the roof of a car and see how he likes traveling that way.