A while ago, I had a bit of a facebook-faceoff about mormonism being Christian or not...and a good family friend said something interesting.

She said that her identity is so tied up with her church that anything that "attacked" that also attacked her personally.

I've been thinking about this a LOT lately. Right off the bat, of course, I see the cultic implications; loss of self-identity.

Also, I see that it helps explain the knee-jerk reaction to any percieved slight.

It explains why it's *SO* hard to consider the church might not be "true" after all - like an addict fearing they'll die if they give up their drug; having self-identity *so* entwined in the organization means that if the *organization* is flawed, so is the individual...and to leave the organization is to excise so much of one's self-identity as to be identity suicide.

And the realization that caused me to post this came as I was reading (yet another) post about a damaged marriage because one spouse saw the truth (and acted on it).

Consider...if a TBM self-identity is synonamous (sp?) with "the church"; then to reject the church is to reject the TBM.

...and suddenly, all of the "mixed-marriage" issues make sense to me.

Flaws in my observations? Reasoning? (I already know there are flaws in my spelling! :)

Any other insight I've kicked up for those of you kind enough to read this all the way through?

I think you are right on. Here is a blog post that supports the same basic idea: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/11/the-cognitive-dissidents/

Makes sense to me.
It would be like telling your spouse they have been wrong about their sexual identity all of their life. Their parents lied to them, you just realized it,(yours lied to you too!) and thought they should know.

There wouldn't be a thing you could say after that. They would tell you you're out of line. They will tell their parents, who will defend them to the hilt, and make you out to be the crazy.

They won't look at an anatomy book, or any proof. They threaten to divorce you unless you go back to unknowing what you just found out. They will take your kids, who are being fed the same lie, so they won't find out what you know.

They will tell the bishop who has also been lied to. The whole congregation will support your spouse. They will shun you.

People outside of the church will tilt their head, give you a quizzical look, and say I know that. Whats the big deal? Or, glad you finally realized, and got your real identity back.

I’ve bumped my head against this ceiling several times and with many different people. With some people their views are not to be questioned. This is most obvious in religion and politics. It seems to be exactly what you have hit on. Their identity as person is so linked to their “Mormonism” or their “Conservatism” for instance, that they see any difference of opinion as a personal attack on them. I have to just sit quietly and not even hint that I have an opinion at most family events because my very existence, as someone who does not share their views, seems to irritate many of them.
Personally I see it as a sign of insecurity. They are afraid that they might be wrong and don’t want anything to tempt them away. On the other hand I enjoy being shown the error of my ways. I’ve changed political preferences and theologies based primarily on being open to new ideas. And the views I have kept have been made stronger, not weaker.
In the few cases when people do want to discuss differences with me I go out of the way to make sure they know that I am being critical of the belief or the opinion and not the holder of the belief or opinion. That eases tensions for some of the conversation but in the end I still think they take our disagreement as a personal attack even though none was meant.

It isn't just a set of beliefs, it's your whole life, your support system, everything you know and understand and value.

That is great insight you have shared and it makes so much sense. I have seen so many ask the question why is it so hard to get a TBM to listen to reason. Well, if their identity is linked so deeply to the morg, anything negative about the morg, whether true or not, is going to feel like a personal attack.

I also find it amazing that a TBM realized that and stated that truth about herself.

I have thought about why it is so hard to get people who are completely devoted to their religion, whatever that religion is, to listen to any type of logic regarding their beliefs. I have honestly spent a lot of time thinking about this, and never came up with this philosophy.

I agree with your reasoning and it makes total sense to me. Thanks for sharing this I now have a LOT to think about.

"She said that her identity is so tied up with her church that anything that "attacked" that also attacked her personally."

This is a result of psychological enmeshment - the binding mechanism that keeps TBMs frozen in place.

I have been thinking a lot about this lately too.

Looking back, I realized that I didn't do as well in my design studio classes in college because I could not take criticism well.

My whole life I'd been around people who all thought, did, and believed the same things, so I was totally unprepared for
having someone point out flaws in something I had poured myself into for the past few months. It hit me personally.

It did not matter that technically the comments were very helpful and not at all mean, that they were saying anything that didn't jive exactly with how I had been handling the problem seemed to me to be a very personal attack.

The people that were able to not take the criticism personally were able to incorporate the ideas more fully and ended up with much better final projects. I tended to feel offended that they didn't like my approach and spend more time trying to change it enough that they would like it without being more open to re-visiting my whole process.

I think one of the biggest bonuses to leaving the church was becoming close to people that I wouldn't have before because their views are so different, I would have just felt bad all the time.

This would explain why I felt like I was going to die when I lost my faith. My identity was tied to the Church.

But, one day I was posting to a thread and in trying to console the person, I wrote that family feel like you would rather live in outer darkness than with them.

After that I leaned back and had a huge AhHa! moment. Yes it is very uncool that my parents have shunned us and that they have stopped sending Christmas gifts to their grandkids and refused to acknowledge their G-grandkids. It hurts and it p--ses me off, but when I look at it from another view, it is easy to see that they see our leaving the church as the ultimate rejection of them. Most of my parents' kids moved out on our 18th birthdays, some are inactive, but only my family has openly rejected their church.

It is kinda funny though, because they praise our ancestors who were disowned by their families for joining the church (and rejecting their own family heritage).

If there was just one more point to this, the church tells its members that their testimony of the church is their most precious posession, and that they must guard it at all costs. Carrying this around with you and using it as a shield and protection against the adversary and enemies creates and inevitable Us/Them mindset where only your enemy would ever try to penetrate that shield. The adversary will use any tool at his disposal including those who would pretend to be your friends and loved ones.

They asked me during a discussion what I thought of what they've been 'teaching' me so far. I told them that I liked all the Mormons I've met, though the more I like them the less I like their dogma.

They couldn't wrap their head around that. One told me that I can't like Mormons without liking Mormonism since it's who they are. I told them such a thing ought to be easy for them to understand since their church (and many other churches) professes to 'love the sinners but hate the sins'...

They changed the subject after that. :oP