and at worst wreck it. They don't even realize how believing, and doing everything they are taught programs them to be prejudiced - not just judgmental, but prejudiced.

I hate that others have made decisions that adversely affected my life without respect to me as a person, because in morgbotland I am considered a nonperson. I hate that they made those decisions according to their bigotry, and prejudice; I hate their condescension, their lies, their many narcissists, and sociopaths, their abusive patriarchy, gullibility ....etc.....etc........

Eventually their prejudice will affect most nonmembers in the state to some degree or another as well as members. For one, it may only be rude treatment, because you have tattoos or clearly display some other sign you are not one of them. Another may lose a job or career over it, but the morgbot mentality will find you.

At times like this I want to emigrate or move, but cannot afford to. It is sad to think how my life would have been so much better if I had never moved here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2012 03:23AM by atheist&happy:-).

SUX, but try to make the 'best' of it.

your attitude is Still under YOUR Control, no one else's...

I don't think there is one way to recover, and a "good" attitude is not the cure-all to life's problems, because usually in the U.S. "good" attitude = denial. When you tell people who have been victimized to get a better attitude, it puts the responsibility, and blame on the victim, and absolves perpetrators. I do the best I can to deal with life's problems, but I cannot pretend away the behavior of others with a fake-happy-face like morgbots do. I believe they should be held accountable, and in most other states they would be.

My hatred of life here is also from PTSD reactions. It is like reliving the trauma, and going through the recovery stages of anger, grieving, etc., over, and over again each time it is triggered. PTSD is not a case of a bad attitude. Really, I don't think suggesting attitude adjustments is a good idea. Actual solutions are what makes a difference.

I've said before, it's easier to recover from things when you have your health. Morgbots have done long lasting damage to my life that won't go away any time soon, if at all, so I have daily reminders of those evil POS, and their choices to deliberately harm me, and my life. I also have daily reminders of how corrupt they are, and how corrupt the government, and other officials are when they won't lift a finger against the cult. TSCC has too much power in this state.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2012 07:33PM by atheist&happy:-).

I know how you feel. They're narcissists.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2012 11:07AM by happyexmormon.

I sometimes hate the place I live too, I feel like I am living among a million rats, nowhere to run.
I wish I was in Utah enjoying the freedom of solitude. People absolutely do not matter, you matter! Mormons are no different than any other segment of society; they are not any different than people of Holywood or Manhattan.

Sorry quin....that is not true....wish you could have lived my nonmormon life when I was there with two kids and a hubby and all we wanted was a nice friendly neighborhood and no one cared one bit about us once they knew that we would not convert. I went to them on several occassion to TRY to get them to be friendly....once I walked across the street to a lady who had a baby and she would not let me in her house. I had a gift for her baby and I was not allowed in. I had to wait on the porch. Never spoke to her again. How rude. Her baby was not sleeping. Her own mom had the baby in her arms at the door also. WHAT are they freakin' scared of is what I want to know.

Prejudice exists everywhere, but Utah is insular, and the morgbot mentality has been cultivated over a century and a half as their way of life has mostly gone unchallenged. There is an incestuous relationship between the church and the legislature, the courts, lawyers, business, etc. Almost no one wants to offend the "big business" or "big brother" of TSCC, because they rule here, and members rule as well.

Everywhere else prejudice exists, and groups exist that exclude, and abuse others, but it is usually not so all-encompassing, and they are challenged more by other groups. TSCC is rarely challenged, because of the mentality of obedience at all costs, and being taught to never criticize priesthood leadership, even when they are in the wrong.

I grew up out of state in an area that leaned Republican, and where a few completely inconsequential Catholics in HS were the clannish snobs, and they were not capable of the damage TSCC does. They were an annoyance, not an oppressive presence that could alter my life without my consent. The rural mentality, and some cronyism, yes, but not close to being on the same scale.

I would prefer an area where no one group has too much power.

Also, I had a friend from college who was a nonmember, and the LD$ here traumatized her, and socially shunned her family - their own neighbors did this. Where I came from no one shunned their neighbors.

to quinlansolo: Once again, not a dude, and I know I matter, but in Utah they often don't let dissenters or nonmembers live in peace. They are such an overwhelming presence one would have to be a hermit to brush them off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2012 10:24PM by atheist&happy:-).

Maybe you are hanging out with the wrong folks. None of my friends are Mormon. All of the girls I meet are non Mormon.

Unless I am at work or at a bar, I rarely interact with their influence.

You are always free to come hang out with us. :)

"Maybe you are hanging out with the wrong folks."

Good point. Mormonism prohibits Mormons from a number of places and activities. Identify these places and activities and you'll have no-mos to pal around with.

For example, any group that meets in a coffee shop are your potenital peeps.

As a never-mo I grew up in a part of the world where everyone was rabid born-again christians. They had a social/religious lock-down on the area, as bad as Mormon communites can be.

What I did was organize a secret wiccan coven under their very noses with a few other socially marginalized non-christians. We had the time of our lives, and it was VERY empowering.

As long as we had each other and our "secret," the b*st*rds could not grind us down.

When we completed our educations we moved to more tolerant and "normal" places.

I totally agree. Mormons are prejudiced against those not like them. Very much so. I lived there for four yrs. -left in '93 and couldn't wait to get away from such rude people. Those who say they are nice...well, maybe to their own kind but NOT nevermos. They detest us. They refuse to even hold a conversation with us at a little girl's soccer match or in a school PTA meeting. RUDE to the max.I wish you could leave since it is bugging you too.

I hate it so bad I had to leave. Eight years and I still don't miss it.

I went thru the same thing, only for me, like the borg, they assimilated me...I finally realized 18 years later they if I didnt get the hell outta there and soon I would end up as a dead cause of all the crap that they put me through. I could write a book about that one...but that is for another day and time. Get outta there now while there is still time! I consider myself one of the lucky ones. The TBM people will never change. Get back here to the real world...that being anywhere outside the state of UT.

Try looking up some of your relatives that live outside UT. Then see about you renting a room from them, and take it from there. Thats what I ended up doing. My dad woulda said it was dumb for me to move with no job to go to, etc, but sometimes it isnt pleasant what one has to do to save their sanity AND their life. Make those phone calls NOW!

One of the triggers for this was the mere possibility of a health scare. I had a "Joe Hill moment", and the thought of how much of my life they have wrecked made me realize I don't want to die here. I feel this state has killed off a good part of my life, and want a chance without their suffocating influence. It's hard to imagine. I want to think I can have a normal life here, but nearly every day I see evidence to the contrary. Some of my problems will be the same wherever I go, but some certainly would not.

My parents were the babies of their families, and married late. The aunts, and uncles I knew best are gone. All my cousins are older, and don't know me or don't care if they do (ironically a relative has sued the RCC, and pedophile priests on behalf of victims, but they don't seem to see how religion here affects my life). I've been reaching out to so-called family for years. A few share the genealogy interest, but everything is very superficial.

Some of my family are very religious. It would NOT be good asking for help from an evangelist. My late aunt, a Scientologist, used to tell me I could work for their reading rooms in exchange for room, and board. How ironic is it that I didn't want to go to a cult for help, but did not know I was in one?

I think it depends on where you live. I grew up in a small railroad town where lots of people were not Mormon and then moved to the SLC area. I really have not had a proble, but I can see that it would be hell to live in an all Mormon area.

Fine then people, leave. I rescind my offer to hang out and meet some normal people. We have a large enough group anyways. :)

Still, it is completely up to us to decide who gets to be in and who doesn't get to be in our lives. For a lot of you folks, perhaps you needed to leave Utah. That is drastic, but certainly your decision. For me, I just met new friends. My road was much easier, I can guarantee that.

I agree that a lot depends on your attitude, but living in an all Mormon area can be a problem. However, in the Salt Lake area there are plenty of non Mormons and inactives. It isn't that bad IMO.Another point is that if you go around with your nose stuck in the air being disdainful of Mormons and thinking they all suck, you are probably not going to find them very friendly. Some people do this although I am not saying that the posters on this thread have done that, but perhaps it is something to think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2012 10:41PM by bona dea.

Agreed. The fact that 99% of the people I interact with on a weekly basis are non-Mormon is due very much to the fact that I live around SLC.

Utah valley would be a horrible place to live.

Most of the Mormons I know aren't all that bad either, but this is an area where there are enough non memebers that even the most TBM are exposed to some diversity. I'd go nuts living in a small town where everyone is Mormon.

Even in Utah, you can choose your friends and even to an extent your co-workers, but you still have to put up with snotty Stepford Wives giving you the stink eye at Costco if you wear sleeveless shirts. Or kids running all over non-stop at your nieces ballet recital because a lot of Mormons don't realize this is rude in public. Or an elderly guy lecturing you on iced tea at the Maverick. Or your kids getting snubbed by the neighbors because you have a coffee maker. Or, or, or...

I have a non-LDS friend in Davis County who has taught in the schools there for 20 years and last time we talked, I was joking about Fast Sunday. She had never heard about fast Sunday. If you make an enclave for yourself with nice non-LDS people, even in the highly Mormon areas, you'll do OK in Utah.

"Utah valley would be a horrible place to live."

That's an understatement. I live in Utah County and they are almost abusive towards non-Mormons. I've even been told that out-of-state Mormons in Utah County can't stand native Utah Mormons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2012 04:10AM by happyexmormon.

happyexmormon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Utah valley would be a horrible place to live."
>
> That's an understatement. I live in Utah County
> and they are almost abusive towards non-Mormons.
> I've even been told that out-of-state Mormons in
> Utah County can't stand native Utah Mormons.

I'm an exmo in Utah County as well. This is exactly what I imagine hell to be like. We are stuck here though until my son graduates high school -6.5 years. It is worse than you can imagine. I totally agree that they are borderline abusive. My kids have ZERO mormon friends. Not even ONE!! It is hell. Luckily we have friends nearby that go to the same Christian church we now attend. I'd be lost without those friends. I honestly think the ld$ religion is Satan's work at its finest. Breaking up marriages, relationships, turning away from God...

I treat them the same except now I am aware of the programming, because I have been where they are now. That does not equate with being an arrogant snob, and no, I’m not going to blame myself for poor treatment from them like the LD$ would like me to. I do not discriminate either way. I did not look down on nonmembers as a member, and don’t do the reverse now.

Really, it does not take being a disdainful, stuck up person like a lot of morgbots are to have them be unfriendly. ALL it takes is NOT being a morgbot. Yes, being yourself in Utah, being your individual self is all it takes. That’s kind of the point of this thread.

They are not very friendly to nonmembers, especially to exmo’s, and more especially to atheists. I do expect to be treated as I would in any other state. Sadly they disappoint. I know when I am being condescended to, and I often know why.

to CA Girl:

Recently I had to stoop to the low level of hiding the coffee maker in my own home. Despite my efforts I was betrayed by my kitty.

Also, if I were out, and about more it might be easier to find new friends, but I’m also talking about the influence of courts, landlords, lawyers, etc. When they choose the side of the perpetrators over the victim, or are perpetrators, because of religion, that makes life here unbearable. You think it is easy to navigate, but if you are a crime victim, good luck. Maybe you would fare better, because you are married, but remember, I am at the lowest of the LD$ hierarchy. I have a disability, and am a single female. Men have gotten away with a lot of abuse against me, because I am easy to discredit as a person in this sick culture. They KNOW they have the advantage in this state. People too often make value judgments here based on hierarchy, and not on evidence - even people whose job it is to go by evidence. Too many times I have found they will not give me full respect or rights as a citizen.

and I live in an area that elects Democrats.

Is it your line of work? I'm a genealogist, and have not researched for a few years, except for a few short visits, since all the morg caused trauma. Many researchers are not LD$, but it is not a place to meet people who share any of my interests other than research.

My health problems have made socializing far more difficult than it used to be. It's not just the PTSD. Sometimes my meds make me want to avoid people or being out in public - they can make me unbalanced so I don't want to walk far, and my speech may become slow or my thinking difficult at times. I function at a lower level than before. It's very difficult to make plans for anything, because I don't know how I'll feel. It would be difficult for anyone to know me for who I am since I feel impaired a lot of the time. Most places I frequent know I am not "special", but other places treat me rudely at times.

I know morgbots cannot be friends with atheists, but exmo's are a problem too. I would like to meet more exmo's, but I know some who are terrible people. Not that you are terrible, but I really don't want to meet anyone who might even know any of these people or even know someone who knows them. Yes, it's that bad. The last thing I need is worse PTSD.

It sounds like you have a lot of social anxieties and issues. That's ok, stuff like that happens.

There are terrible people everywhere. Sometimes to meet the good ones, you have to take a gamble. :)

Hang out at more coffee houses maybe. Exmos are conflicted people. Try just going to more coffee houses. Don't know what else to say.

Yeah, Utah and more specifically, Utah County can be hell on a nonmo or exmo, but there are worse places. Down South in the Bible Belt life can be hell if you don't belong. They have dry counties where you can't even buy a beer, and the people are great until they find out you aren't a Christian. God forbid you aren't a Bible thumpin' Christian regardless of what denomination. Prejudice is alive and not so well in these good ole USofA. Whether it is against your religion or your skin color or the way you talk, it is just as bad in some ways as it was back in the 50s and 60s, and in some ways it is worse.

I live in Happy Valley and I just pretty much keep to myself. I don't bother with the neighbors because I don't want to be harrassed with attempts to get me back or some other such nonsense. I have friends who I associate with and when home I just keep to myself. I figure if they are too small minded to accept me for who I am then I want nothing to do with them. Maybe that is small minded too but at least it gives me peace and I don't worry about if the neighbors are friendly or not because I don't want anything to do with them. In reality I guess I am prejudiced against morgbots because I simply don't want anything to do with them. I even went so far as to tell my youngest son that if he wants to be happy NEVER date a mormon girl. So there you have it. I fight fire with fire lol.

I have to admit ----- alot of really good folks living there, but they are primarilly NON-church members, or those who have "been there/done that" like me, and have left. But, I hear ya. The Utah TBM's can be a Huge Pain in the Arse, for sure !!!!

problem solved!

Sounds like you can't afford not to.

I live in a neighborhood of artists and hippy and outdoorsy types, all very friendly, EXCEPT the family across the street with 4 kids. Guess what - they're the only Mormons in the immediate area and are as cold and stuckup as it gets, they won't talk to anyone.