First of all, I realize I have a lot to be grateful for...good health, steady job, and wonderful children, all in the best country in the world.

Nevertheless, I can't help but feel completely pissed off at my situation, thanks to TSCC. I also have a hard time contemplating how I will ever be happy.

I have been a non-believer for about five years now. To make a long story short, my wife didn't take the news very well and I've been living in a scenario where 1) I can leave the church and break up my family (divorce) or 2) I can keep my mouth shut and suffer in silence for who knows how long. The second option includes attending church meetings, holding callings, no rated R movies, no alcohol, no shedding the garments. Fortunately it does not include paying tithing (I refuse) and temple attendance (I can't get a recommend because I don't pay tithing and because I don't believe the church is true). After living in option two for the past several years, I feel that I'm at a breaking point. This sucks so bad!

Doing the things mentioned above isn't even close to being the worst part. I can do those forever if I had to, although its not fun. Hands down, the worst part is being alone. With the exception of a few friends that live hundreds of miles away, I have nobody to talk to who truly understands my situation. Plus, I have to live a lie every day. My young kids are always asking question about God, Jesus, and churches (they are realizing that their friends at school have different beliefs). I always tell them, "I'm not sure" or "We don't know the answer to that" or worse, I find myself giving them the standard LDS response because I know my answer will undergo scrutiny from DW.

Speaking of DW, that's another issue altogether. I love her and I want her to be happy, but I don't know how much longer I can sacrifice my own happiness. I hate that I can't talk to her about how I feel about things. She doesn't even know I'm agnostic. She doesn't know I merely pretend to say my personal prayers at night. She doesn't know I believe gays should be treated equally. She doesn't know I drink coffee at work. She doesn't know I believe in evolution and the big bang. All of these topics are off limits. I have brought up less controversial topics and she has gotten upset and said she doesn't want to talk about it.

To make matters worse, my oldest is turning 8 soon. Yes, you know what that means. He is so excited and of course he thinks Dad is going to baptize him. That's what my wife thinks too. And maybe I will. I can't decide. I'm still in the closet as far as my non-belief goes, except for telling my wife and the bishop. If I don't baptize my son, I guess I pretty much have to come out. My parents, in-laws, siblings, etc. will be in attendance. There will be no hiding the fact that I'm either a non-believer or I'm unworthy, or both. I hate that the church puts me in these kinds of situtions!

Part of me wants to try to put a stop to the baptism altogether. If I'm coming out anyway, I might as well try to save my son from joining a cult, at least until he's old enough to decide. If I do this, I might as well meet with a divorce attorney ahead of time.

Or perhaps I'll keep my mouth shut, baptize my son and allow him to celebrate the day he has been looking forward to for so long. He won't understand why his best freind get to be baptized but not him.

I know I should be thinking about all the things I'm thankful for this Thanksgiving, but I'm sure I'll mostly be dwelling on how much life sucks. I'm sure things will work out for the best in the long run, but I know a lot of bumps in the road, fights, and tears will come first. I'd like to be happy some day, but I know my happiness will break a lot of hearts. I just can't keep up the charade much longer.

Sorry about the long rant. As I said, I'm pretty much alone so I appreciate your willingness to listen and your ability to understand what I'm going through. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Wow... I'm sorry. Your situation sounds like hell on earth. I can't imagine being married to someone and not being able to talk about certain subjects. I understand not wanting to rock the boat, but it seems to me this is something that will eventually have to come out at some point. I wish you luck.

Your 8 year old will be brainwashed by the Bishop to be baptized anyway. Living a lie is living hell. Your kids will understand when they get older. Give your wife the choice to tell her you are a Christian, but you know the LDS religion is a cult and you will not be a hypocrite which is much worse in the long run for everyone...

I feel for you. I was in the same place for years. I baptized both of my children without believing, have given numerous priesthood blessings when they get sick, start school, et cetera, and have had many different church callings.

It just ate at me too much, I felt like such a hypocrite. I just couldn't keep doing it. Also, my children are now adolescents are are much more capable of indepedent thought. I felt it was important to stand up for what I believed in for them. Eventually I came out and told my wife and now it looks like we'll be divorcing. We're at a point where our beliefs are too far apart and she feels like I decieved her for too many years.

I don't know if things would have worked out differently but at this point I wish I would have tried to work this through with her years ago, a little at a time. I think we would have had a better chance.

There are a lot of people on here that give great advice for this situation. Some of the best I think is to strengthen the marriage as much as possible through non-church activities. Find something you can do together that both of you really enjoy and go all out. Your best chance is for her to value her relationship with you more than the church.

I'm sorry about your impending divorce - that sucks. You said that your wife is upset because "she feels like I decieved her for too many years." Well, the mormon church - including your local leaders - have deceived you and lied to you for many more years than that.

This is hard for me to read. Don't think beyond blurting out the truth. Don't think anymore. Go home from work, when your wife is alone blurt it out, "I don't believe the church is true and I can no longer live a lie." Let the chips fall where they may. It is soooo hard to do. My stomach was in knots for months!! My child cried. My husband looked at me like he didn't know who I was. We got in a fight. He told me I can not get in his way with my daughter and teaching her. I said "consider me in your way." It was awful!! It still isn't great. But at least I am not living lies.

I am so sorry to hear that you are suffering. I do not envy you the task of breaking the news to your wife. The only advice I can give is to tell her how you have agonized and tried to stay in the church, but being honest with her and yourself is just too important. Show her your genuine feelings and tell her how much you still, and always will, love her. Then just hope that she will be able to deal with it. Good luck to you.

this 'church' is a dangerous cult.

Most adults in the US do not feel the obligation to justfy their religioud beliefs to anyone.
So you changed your mind about Mormonism -
Why do you feel the need to give up your civil rights?

See a lawyer to get an idea where you stand, and then call her bluff.

Perhaps your wife does not realize that she will be a second class citizem in the Mormon church if she divorces you.

What you wrote for us is your completely honest self. Honor that first and make a commitment to be completely honest from here on. That will be the most freeing thing you will ever experience.

My experience is that the completely honest self is the highest good that you can produce. If others do not want to be around you because of it, then the sooner you know that the better. It will give you both the opportunity to move on and discover real happiness.

I have found that when one is completely honest, and confident in that honesty, that "others" will have no perceived power over you and you can "let the chips fall where they may" without guilt, regret, or fear. And without confrontation. I simply do not allow it! you know the old... it takes two to tango....

I had the same concerns/fears that you express before I "came out" to my wife. I honestly did not know how she would react. I felt that it was possible that she would leave me. I had to become OK with the possibility of that outcome. That is a process, but 5 years says “it’s time”. Your kids need to see that example before they will respect it.

I found that mine and my wife’s relationship did have to re-adjust. But now it is based on honesty and integrity and mutual respect. We agreed that I would not seek to “change her mind, or that of others” (that I wouldn’t go on a rampage through our families) but that I would answer all questions honestly and openly, if asked by her or anyone else. As a result of this approach, to which I have not wavered, she is now looking at things much more objectively. She is finding her way out too, it seems.

I know how unsettling and disruptive this all is to one’s life. I have absolutely no need to have anyone “agree” with me. I cannot un-learn what I have learned about Mormon roots, nor will I repress that knowledge. But, I will not be the conscious trigger of disruption in others. When others come to me and ask why I left, I ask them two questions:

1. If what you believed was incorrect would you really, really, really want to know? If the answer is “no” then I don’t ask the second question. I just quit talking about it. If they say “yes or absolutely” then I ask them…
2. how obvious would it have be? Would it have to slap you to the side of the head or would you use a shovel and a flashlight to find it?

Then I simply tell them that if they want to know, then they have to be willing to “go dig just like I did” and I tell them about mormonthink.com. If they go dig then they really want to know, (several of my adult children are tunneling as we "speak") if not I am OK that they live in their “matrix” as long as they choose.

My discovery has been that happiness has never been dependent on the approval of others, no matter how much I thought it did. It is dependent on my being true to myself and living an honest and open life. And my life discovery has opened into areas once considered taboo, but would not have been available to me while living a lie or in secret.

That’s more than you asked for, so take what seems good and discard the rest….

Best,

Mormer Formon

No one can MAKE someone believe in something. On the flip-side, how one handles situations where people don't agree with their beliefs is a choice. If your wife chooses to divorce you, if things get turned upside down, that is HER choice and it is NOT your fault. If you two divorce it will be because SHE didn't accept you, not the other way around. She is not some victim because you started thinking for yourself.

I'm not advocating things one way or the other. I'm trying to help you get a clear perspective so you don't make your decisions out of this false sense of guilt.

The longer you go with it like this, the more likely you are to get sick or explode and do something regrettable.

If nothing else, find a professional counselor to unload on. It might be good to do that before you let it out with your wife. Otherwise it's going to be hard to keep rational.

newordermormon.org is a forum for people who decide to stay in after they know it isn't true.

There has to be some compromise where you get some of what you want and she gets something in return. Having you do all the sacrifice isn't going to work long term.

And like vhainya said, it isn't your fault that you found the truth. It's not something you can ignore either. And you aren't alone, this story comes up here as regular as rain.

In the Orwell novel, Winston Smith was in the same position. He knew the Party and all it stood for was a lie but had to put on a front to survive. I think people in cults have to do that sometimes.

As a convert I had it much better. My family was glad that I finally saw through the charade. Yet even they don't know that I'm an atheist.

It was tough for me to have to stand aside and watch another man baptise my daughter when she was 8 even though I did not believe. Ten years later she just laughs about Mormonism as, and I quote, "that silly, stupid church mom believes in".

So there is hope! You just hang in there for now. It may take months or years but it will work out for you. I wish I could say more or make your situation better.

What I really wish was that there was a place for people to defect from Mormonism like people use to defect from the old Soviet Union.

Too bad the media is asleep for this part of the Mormon story.

tortured, and finally subjected to the prospect of having his face eaten away by hungry rats, at which point he betrayed his lover to save his own life. He then became a brainwashed tool of the party. Not a whole lot of "hope" in that analogy.

You have shared some really good advice.

Number one...you are being held hostage. So do as I say or I will divorce you. Nice wife. I would never take that from a spouse.

Number two....you must tell your son about your doubts. He will remember and if he gets baptized by someone else, he will always remember why. You may not be able to stop it, but you will not have a son saying when he is 25 "Why did Dad ever baptize me into this cult to begin with."

I think it is obvious what i would do. YOUR happiness is important and lying about something so big- doing callings, wearing garments,etc- is being weak IMO. And why would a Bishop who knows your feelings allow you to baptize your son anyhow?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2010 09:33AM by honestone.

You brought your son into the world. You owe more to him than you do to your wife. You must live according to your own conscience. That is what great parents do. Put your son first.

Oh the phenomenon of the closet doubter in the Church! Aargh!

I lived that way for many years. It sucks. I have been lucky though, DW has been on board with me and we have finally been able to make out exit the last few years.

Your story is somewhat like my father's. He has lived like that for about 25 years. My mother was the obstinate one with blinders on who wouldn't face reality and threw a fit when he told her he no longer believed. I don't know how my dad has been able to keep up appearances but he has and the only time he is able to speak his mind is when he is alone with me or my sister who also no longer believes. He did not go to the temple for weddings and didn't talk about it when asked other than say that he hadn't kept up on his tithing. The truth was, he figured it out and decided to do things on his terms not the church's.

My only advice to you is to try and find somebody you can talk to and vent from time to time. And, if possible, try and find something good about your situation. It is good you don't have to pay tithing. Try and laugh inside at all the nonsense you hear at church and try not to take it all serious. Just laugh at it if you can.

Another thing you can do is try to teach your kids to think. And keep good books around like "By His Own Hand On Papyrus" or Grant Palmer's book or anything by Michael Quinn or "Under the Banner of Heaven." Teach them to question and think critically when you can. It will probably work on some of them and others maybe not. As they hit the teenage years they should start to question and that is when you can be a missionary. Hehehe. I have had to do that with my kids, it was a long process. My oldest two are finally figuring it out and fading away, unfortunately my youngest refuses to think and just wants to believe. It will take a long time with her, her spouse is brainwashed too so that doesn't help. She was the one that kept believing in Santa Claus no matter what.

Maybe with time your wife will come around. The church is so good at taking advantage of people and making them unhappy. Don't give up on her. As long as TSCC keeps doing stupid stuff (and they always have) there is the possibility she will get fed up with their nonsense.