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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 10:12PM

More bad press for the LDS over dead dunking Holocaust victems.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 10:18PM

The church is very sloppy in it's record keeping. They actually lost six years worth of temple records by converting them to digital storage from microfilm. Of course they destroyed the film before discovering the data transfer was bad.

Also, they have me listed as deceased. Fine with me. My dead brother and grandmother are still alive according to their records.

If this is the organization that is in charge of making sure all the details are covered so a person can continue their journey to heaven, God must be drunk or too busy having sex with his many wives.

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Posted by: intellectualfeminist ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 10:36PM

Rubicon, I was just thinking the EXACT SAME THING before I came over here to RfM.
MJ, the story is also at the Huff Post:
Needless to say, the Mormon church is getting EVISCERATED right now.
I seriously, SERIOUSLY thought this had to be a spoof, like the Onion or something. I kept waiting for the punchline.......then I realized that the theater of the absurd IS the punch line.

Barely ONE WEEK after the sheisse hit the fan over the Wiesenthal family baptisms, in the midst of another PR DISASTER for the Mormon cult, after issuing yet another meaningless "apology", some bonehead in the Dominican Republic gets baptized for Anne Frank (the NINTH time she's been dead-dunked) on Saturday, Feb. 18.

You'd think somebody, somehow, somewhere would get a fucking clue. But I guess LD$ Inc. doesn't really want a Mormon in the white house after all, cause hardly a week goes by without another Mormon Moment turned nightmare.

What a freak show.........

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 10:41PM

Considering how much embarrasment this brings them, if they feel have to do it, they could at laest get ther act together and not do it ove rand over for the same person. One baptism should be enough. Geez, people, we live in the age of computers.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 10:43PM of them could get up in general conference and tell the faithful to quit submitting the names of famous people, that there's a church department that handles that.

But I don't think genealogy and temple work are actually about saving the dead. They're about keeping the members busy and feeling guilty.

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Posted by: searching27 ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 10:48PM

"Just FYI: This whole "baptism for the dead" furor is about some people reading a name and dunking a volunteer under water. It carries as much weight as you standing in your kitchen and demanding: "Genghis Khan, make me dinner." And I apologize to Mongolians worldwide if that analogy was offensive."


stupid mormons

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 10:51PM

They could baptize one person or one man and one woman for everyone who has ever lived and then repeat it once a year for the new dead. That would save a lot of time , but of course there wouldn't be nearly the busy work to keep people out of trouble.

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Posted by: dk ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 10:04AM

bona dea Wrote:
> They could baptize one person or one man and one
> woman for everyone who has ever lived and then
> repeat it once a year for the new dead. That would
> save a lot of time , but of course there wouldn't
> be nearly the busy work to keep people out of
> trouble.

My thoughts exactly. What's the point of dead-dunking someone 7 times and never for the person with no written record of existing? Just estimate how many people died in a given year and dunk a man or women for each of them. No need for names. That will keep the church busy if you start 5000 years ago.

Or, is dead-dunking someone multiple times like harassing them to accept mormonism?

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Posted by: nobody ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 11:28AM

ANd just think how much time this would free up. Instead of ward temple nights, they could have ward Habitat for Humanity night.

But of course we all really know the rael purpose for this meaningless busy work.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 11:41AM

No, no, no. That is not how the gospel works. Habitat for Humanity? Who does that benefit, a bunch of poor people. Truly, the Lord is more deserving of our time and money. Therefore, they should organize ward shopping trips to the beautiful City Creek Mall.

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Posted by: Nitro Express ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 10:57PM

To be honest. I doubt there really was that good of a temple record keeping system. The church just wants to keep the members occupied with lots of busy work so they can lay on the guilt trip to do more of it. The temple is nothing more than a brainwashing and population control tool. They have to have a reason for the temple to exist and to guilt trip people into going as much as possible. Doing proxy work for the dead is a handy reason to go to the temple. You can recycle all the names you want but when they are famous ones, well, those unfortunately stick out don't they. Oooops!

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 11:05PM

Like everything else, too much bad publicity on the dead dunking and the prophet will have another revelation. Heck. They don't even bother with that anymore. A First Presidency letter will go out with a new temple policy change. Shooting lightning bolts from the walking stick and seeing visions in a hat were for the old days. Now they just write a memo and have the signature machine sign it so the old prophet sitting in his Depends won't drool all over it.

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Posted by: jpt ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 09:46AM

When Hinckley bought the farm and Monson moved up the ladder to be the #1 guy, my TBM family was gushing over the wonderful attributes of the new prophet, seer, and revelator.

Your assessment of the drooling, depends-wearing geriatric is certainly more accurate. This is what they actually get for their arm-to-the-square committed obedience and 10% (or more) of their money.

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Posted by: apostate j. ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 11:00PM

The sad thing is they cannot pull names off the roster. It's no accident that Anne Frank was baptised 9 times. Truthfully the church doesn't have enough names to go around so they recycle them from temple to temple. The members think they are doing a good thing by spending a day in the temple doing the work for some dead people and they unaware that same person has probably been baptized, endowed, and sealed numerous times.

They like to pretend all the temples are over flowing with names and make everyone feel like they are doing their part to redeem the dead. If they didn't recycle names people would show up to the temple and be told "Sorry we don't currently have any new names to do the work for, come back later."

The church won't cop to that because they need people to go to the temple. They need create urgency or importance of always keeping a recommend current. Its all based on keeping folks paying their tithing. Follow the money.

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Posted by: Nitro Express ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 11:21PM

It's really a sick sick sick scam when you just really look at it objectively. I'm sure those old SS records were a real bounty with millions of names kept meticulously by the Germans. Sick sick sick sick.

It's almost like the church's karma is falling on it now.

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Posted by: Jesus ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 04:41AM

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 11:09PM

Sorry folks, I know I swore that place off, but the board was down a lot this afternoon...

A Person's Brain on Mormonism Department

The originator of this thread, Smac97, used to beg to be permitted to hang out here and insist he wasn't trolling, just "clearing up misconceptions."

>Helen Radkey is an agenda driven anti-Mormon. In 2003 she spoke at a 2003 Convention of American Atheists, at which she vilified the LDS Church... She wanted, according to this article, $30,000 for her work from 1993 to 2003 and to be paid $18 per hour thereafter for her continuing research. The church did not express interest in her offer.

>In other words, Helen Radkey has been trying to make money out of this. Isn't that just a wee bit odd?

Probably just trying to recover some of that tithing she paid...


>There is nothing admirable about this woman.

Whazzamadda, are they afraid she won't be ticketed to Outer Darkness?

Poster Sky (as in pie in the?):

>She's obsessed with baptisms for the dead - and will never pass up an opportunity to make the LDS Church look bad. In fact it looks like she goes out of her way to throw dirt at the Church. She is a divider and not a uniter. Anybody else notice the timing of all of this with Romney? It looks like it was all calculated.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 11:43AM by SL Cabbie.

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Posted by: angsty ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 09:24AM

Instead of taking responsibility for their own offenses, they start denigrating the whistle-blower. Idiots.

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Posted by: djmaciii ( )
Date: February 21, 2012 11:49PM

$18.00 an hour in Utah! And $30,000 for 10 years of work. Wow she sure is decadent.

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 02:26AM

It looks like Purdy, the LDS Church spokescritter, is starting to stress the idea that all proxy baptisms of Jews that have taken place lately were done by persons maliciously trying to make the LDS Church look bad.

Seems unlikely.

Kind of goes along with the vilification of Helen Radkey.

Here's Purdy trying to blame someone other than the church, and other than faithful members:

“It takes a good deal of deception and manipulation to get an improper submission through the safeguards we have put in place,” Purdy said in an email, language that suggests these baptisms could be the work of mischief makers. “While no system is foolproof in preventing the handful of individuals who are determined to falsify submissions, we are committed to taking action against individual abusers. ... We will also consider whether other church disciplinary action should be taken. It is distressing when an individual willfully violates the church’s policy and something that should be understood to be an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention.”

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Posted by: grubbygert ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 03:25AM

i'm with you on it being unlikely but... even if it was "mischief makers" would it even matter?

the point is TSCC made promises that it clearly doesn't care about keeping - they absolutely could put a stop to it if they really wanted to

it's THEIR computer system
it's THEIR temples
it's THEIR temple workers

that's why the public are not going to be sympathetic to their "mischief makers" ploy

if they were serious there's lots of things they could do - shutting out new submissions with death dates after the 1930s until they've been manually reviewed, for example

it's not like they don't have a small army of 'volunteers' to do the busy work...

instead all they did was say, "ok kids, knock it off or you might get grounded"

but seriously, how brain-dead do they have to be to not put a stop to it just until the second week of november???

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 03:41AM

They would prevent embarrassment and trouble paying for fake names innstead of paying museums and cemetaries for old names and trusting grassroots "saint" mischief makers to follow policy with their name submissions.

I feel like I'd like to send gratitude and validation to the memory of Miss Frank. She suffered and deserves good wishes from people of good will throughout the world.

The morg needs to apologize and mean it for once. Then they need to stop making lame excuses, admit that they can't set up an efficient and accurate computer system, and hire someone who can.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 04:55AM by Cheryl.

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Posted by: Elohim ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 04:26AM

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Posted by: saviorself ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 08:46AM

To anyone with an IT background (that's me, I worked in IT for 35 years) it is obvious that the size and scope of the IT system for dead dunking is immense. It is NOT a simple little system. For an outsider (posters on RFM for example) to make meaningful comments about the integrity of the dead dunking system requires an in-depth understanding of the hardware design, data-base design, application software design, implementation, operation, security controls, and audit controls of the entire system. Adding to the complexity of the situation is the global disbursement of the system across multiple sites on multiple continents.

In the case at hand, the topic of this thread, it's not like "Anne Frank" is a unique or unusual name. Just now I went to and did a search for the name "Anne Frank" in the USA. After fifteen seconds the search returned 235 individuals named Anne Frank. And that is just within the USA.

Giving credit where credit is due, the Mormons surely know that dead dunking deceased Jews is a total embarrassment to the CoJCoLDS. After multiple embarrassing incidents I give them credit for wanting to eliminate any additional errors.

At some level humans must interact with the dead dunking system -- that is totally obvious. In other words, computers cannot run the system automatically. All it takes for an embarrassing incident to happen is for one human to either inadvertently or intentionally introduce an error into the dead dunking system. From an IT perspective it is basically impossible to implement a completely bullet-proof system. More errors will occur and they will cause embarrassment for the CoJCoLDS. Yes, the IT experts who run the system will take a close look at this particular error, try to determine the cause, and try to figure out a way to prevent it from happening again. But don't expect them to be able to totally eliminate such errors in the future. That is not going to happen.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 12:29PM by saviorself.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 09:31AM

The church is obviously very sloppy about the necro-dunking. Enormous lists are sucked into the system, and I doubt that there is any way to screen for duplicates and banned names. Besides, they have a shortage, according to them, of people submitting names; who's going to volunteer to screen the names? Once all the Holocaust victims were sucked in, how are they now going to find them all and suck them back out. Seems an impossible task.

As for "punishment" of the ones doing it, I highly doubt that they have anything in place to figure it all out. Besides, Michael Purdy, Scott Trotter, et al., are notorious liars for the Lord. They'll say whatever the press needs to hear.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 09:48AM

Anyway, the article indicates she was baptized "again." Anyone know about this?

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 09:54AM

I believe it was the eighth or ninth time, which in fairness puts her slightly ahead of Adolf Hitler.

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Posted by: Makurosu ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 09:53AM

Those people are on a list, and submissions containing certain criteria should be flagged by the computer and hand-screened before being allowed to be submitted. I don't see why this is so impossible. The search engine in the FamilySearch website is capable of this sort of fuzzy logic, and if the Mormon church wanted to be true to their word in 1995 and 2010 they certainly could be. They just don't want to, because they think that their practice of performing ordinances for the dead trumps keeping their word or basic human decency or anything else, until it starts costing them money.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 09:53AM

If temple work is so important, then why are they wasting valuable time doing it for the same people multiple times. Monson get your act together. Your members are loosing valuable chapel cleaning time over this nonsense. Or worse yet, the time they are wasting on needless temple trips to perform ordinances that have already been performed, is time they could spend shopping in the City Creek Mall. What would you rather have my TBM relatives do, dead dunk Ann Frank for the seventh time, or go buy some t-shirts from your new GAP store?

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Posted by: Flat Lander ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 12:18PM

Some think these baptisms make no difference since they have no power, but I think that they are as offensive as prayers said by Westboro Baptist protestors at funerals for fallen soldiers.

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Posted by: Outcast ( )
Date: February 22, 2012 01:16PM

In NCAA terms, it's called, "Lack of Institutional Control."

Now when TSCC said it had "removed" those names, how does that work exactly? I mean since the temple ordinance was performed, supposedly the process for that person begins and there's nothing that can stop it down here. So, TSCC is lying to the outside world instead of being honest and saying, "what was done in the temple can't be reversed."

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