outrageous experiences in my "story" ---- this one is #1!

The LAST STRAW!
This is my last absurd experience with the Mormon Church. I had convinced my inactive daughter that going to church would never hurt you and we ought to go once in awhile. This particular Sunday, we decided to use the woman's restroom. When we came out of stalls and were washing our hands and had pulled up our dresses to adjust our underwear, she saw a man in the double mirrors! She alerted me while quickly putting her dress down.

As I had dried my hands and no longer had my dress up, I approached him and told him it was inappropriate for him to be in the ladies room.

He went ballistic, got right in my face backing me up against a wall as he said he had PERMISSION as he always came in to help his wife.

He maintained that his wife would only let him help her in the restroom. His wife was in a wheelchair and they were in the nursing room area that is adjacent to the wheelchair access toilet where she was eating a cracker and they had the sound up on the piped in Sunday School Lesson.

When I told him he would have to leave, he grabbed his wife's wheel chair and proceeded to shove me through the double doors nearly knocking me over yanking her around tipping her back and forth in his attempt to shove me out of the way so he could get out. She remained absolutely silent through out all of this.

He left my daughter and I stunned and shaking. Fortunately, I was able to keep him from knocking me over and got the doors open so he could exit. He said he was leaving, however, we found out a little while later that he had only exited the building to go outside and come back in the other door by the Bishop's office where he was telling them I had attacked him!

My daughter and I were very upset, adrenaline was pumping as I had been shoved through two doors by this out of control man when the counselor motioned for us to come inside the office and speak with him and them. Needless to say, we did not enter.

When we came running and yelling out of the bathroom, a "sister" told us that this was the Lord's house and we needed to be Reverent! I could not believe my ears. In her behalf, she had no idea what had happened.

It is important to note here that this man proclaimed himself as his wife's sole provider and been taking care of her for over 20 years. I knew others had helped her in the past in the restroom. He could easily have asked one of the ladies.

She was covered from neck, to ankle, to wrist in clothing on a very warm spring day. I have worked with the elderly and assisted living and this kind of attire is suspect and warrants further investigation, especially when he maintained that she would not allow anyone else to assist her.

One of the counselors kept saying: "CALM DOWN OR LEAVE, CALM DOWN OR LEAVE.

Well, we left! Never to return.

The women and men of the church said that it was just fine for that man to be in the woman's restroom. He was there to help his wife. And besides, he would never LOOK.

This man had access to the women's restroom anytime he pleased, he was NOT helping his wife, she was having a snack in the nursing mothers area taking up all the room so others could not use the room.

He could hear all conversations and watch women and children exiting what they thought was a private woman's toilet area as he was behind the side wall where he could not be seen, lurking!

And this is not inappropriate? That complete lack of reason and logic and common sense is just unbelievable. We subsequently found out there are no laws on the books in our county to enforce about use of bathrooms on private property. The LDS Church in that area probably knew that.

It wasn't until we threatened to call the radio and TV stations and social services, and my true believing Mormon husband wrote letters which the brethren maintained I forced him to do that we got a kind of sideways apology from the Bishop, who was absent that day.

EDIT: no visible signs of the assault, called the police but could not press charges. The police went to the man's house to speak with him.
We also called Social Services for the Elderly to have her case investigated
[Updated: July 2008 The woman in this story is recently deceased.]

This event finally got my attention and I stopped giving the church one more chance. Next the process of rewriting all the scripts put in my head from all that programming (Another post on How I Got Myself UnMormonized~!) began along with a long study of the history of the church adding about 25 books to my personal library.

This incident also has an apology. One of very few!
I happened to go to a yard sale nine months after this incident at the bishopric's home that told me to :Calm down or go home. He actually recognized that they didn't handle it well!

UPDATE:
A Mormon from the Ward happened to call our home recently (2009)and in chatting, I was surprised when he brought up this incident from 1998 and how he felt about it. Apparently, he stood up for me. He said he was later "demoted" also. It was so nice to hear from someone who was there and knew all about it and was as disgusted as I was.

Susie: No Offense, but when I see old posts like this, I usually/always think to myself: Is this relevant to Today? How so?

Trying to reconstruct things this old just isn't worthwhile, IMHO.

As a general statement, most of us here know How Dumb the morg is in the way AND the reasons they to things; Got It!

It's my favoite story in all of my years of reading RfM.

no likee no lookee!! sides Hoser Cheryl has my favorite story!! :) :) :)

guynoirprivateeye Wrote:
-

The RFM posters and lurkers are constantly coming and going with new people added every day.
I am convinced that these stories of our experiences are always relevant as they are part of our "story" of how we experienced and dealt with Mormonism. I don't think the story is that unique, or that it's just about Mormons. The Mormon church is the setting in this case, but it could have happened other places.

There are strange, weird, odd people everywhere, and in my observation, probably a larger % of them in religions in general as they are so accepting of everyone~! :-)

guynoirprivateeye Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Susie: No Offense, but when I see old posts like
> this, I usually/always think to myself: Is this
> relevant to Today? How so?
>
> Trying to reconstruct things this old just isn't
> worthwhile, IMHO.
>
> As a general statement, most of us here know How
> Dumb the morg is in the way AND the reasons they
> to things; Got It!

Someone asked about it.

guynoirprivateeye Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Susie: No Offense, but when I see old posts like
> this, I usually/always think to myself: Is this
> relevant to Today? How so?

Well, your comment offended ME. How about that, eh?

What you just said was: "Hey. The problem you had with a Mormon male having permission to spy on women in the ladies rest room? It's all in the past. Let it go."

Really? So, presumably everyone else who was ever given s**t by TSCC should "just let it go?"

Boy Scouts sexually abused? Let it go.

Women beaten and/or raped by priesthood hold family members? Let it go.

Someone cheated by a Bishop or a member of the Stake Presidency? Let it go.

Crazy experience!!!

Thanks for sharing it SuzieQ!

Yeah I would be upset too.

My wife was in a wheelchair too and wanted my help the same way. We would simply ask a female friend of hers in the ward to make sure the room was empty and then stand by the door to explain things. The entire ward understood.

Me Too Wrote:
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> My wife was in a wheelchair too and wanted my help
> the same way. We would simply ask a female friend
> of hers in the ward to make sure the room was
> empty and then stand by the door to explain
> things. The entire ward understood.


YES!! Exactly. This was how it had been done in the past with this couple. Worked very well.

Sounds like a lot of to do about not much. An elderly gentleman helping his Wife and sneaking a gander. To each his own. No harm, no foul. Wouldn't bother me. But that's just me.

thingsithink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like a lot of to do about not much. An
> elderly gentleman helping his Wife and sneaking a
> gander. To each his own. No harm, no foul.
> Wouldn't bother me. But that's just me.


If it was a strange man in the restroom watching you and your adult daughter adjust your underwear, it wouldn't bother you? OK Fine with me!

The poor old guy had every right to be in there to attend to whatever his wife's needs were. Such behavior is clearly part of his tribe, his culture, and therefore should be respected.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 11:39PM by SusieQ#1.

+1

I see right through you.

And you should stop stalking people especially since you go ballistic if anyone disagrees with you in the slightest. Remember Noah's Ark?I don't know what you problem is with Susie Q but your stalking and insults are getting really old. You dish it out, but can't take it.

The way I read it, the biggest problem wasn't the guy being in the women's restroom.

Bigger problems:

1) His sense of entitlement in being in there. Instead of acknowledging why someone might be uncomfortable having someone of the opposite sex in the bathroom he goes off on a tirade.

2) He was physically aggressive.

3) The ward leaders handled the situation very poorly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 04:37PM by ronas.

ronas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The way I read it, the biggest problem wasn't the
> guy being in the women's restroom.
>
> Bigger problems:
>
> 1) He sense of entitlement in being in there.
> Instead of acknowledging why someone might be
> uncomfortable having someone of the opposite sex
> in the bathroom he goes off on a tirade.
>
> 2) He was physically aggressive.
>
> 3) The ward leaders handled the situation very
> poorly.


YES! It was an easy fix. One way--someone could have been positioned outside the woman's restroom while he attended to her needs. But that didn't happen.
A female could have accompanied her as had been done in the past.

The main problem was that he stayed with her in the Mother's Nursing Room and gave her a snack while he turned up the sound to listen to the meeting. He was positioned so he could watch anyone, children included going in and out of the stalls, and using the sink, adjusting their pantyhose, skirts, etc.

The brethren claimed he wouldn't "look" but that was exactly what he was doing. He just happened to "look" a little too far where he could be seen in the double mirrors.

Also, his behavior was completely out of the norm by aggressively trying to attack me, trying to shove ME out of the restroom with his wife in a wheelchair, while my daughter and grand child got our of the way as he furious.

He was probably mad because he got caught! Who knows how many girls and women he had watched for weeks on end, completely out of their sight. How many little girls did he watch getting assistance to pull up their panties?

I believe the church has a responsibility to assure the privacy of women and girls in the rest rooms.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 04:37PM by SusieQ#1.

Strange how some people assume there's value in not caring what happens to them or others in life.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Strange how some people assume there's value in
> not caring what happens to them or others in life.


I have often wondered about the reasons that happens. I wonder if they are so hurt and angry they have to lash out to make themselves feel better. Don't know. I'm speculating, of course.

well played ;)

Separate womens & mens restrooms are sexist.

no-mo-mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Separate womens & mens restrooms are sexist.


Probably. But the church is on private property and it's legal. In some cases, women can be arrested for using a men's public restroom. It's happened!

I too often repeat some of my stories, because I know that new folks come around every day, and I hope that something I've written might help them at the beginning of their journey out.

Very astute observation on how she was dressed, and his unwillingness to have anyone assist her. That, taken into account with his irrational behavior makes a strong case that she is being abused.

You ever wonder why that cultures that insist that their women must cover up, are the same cultures that have a high tolerance for wife abuse? I'm not saying that they make their women cover up to hide the scars, but because the scars are hidden, it is probably easy for them to dismiss the severity of their crimes.

I've heard of stories in sports stadia (stadiums?)


women getting POd with Looooooooooooonnnng waiting lines going into the John, sometimes with apologies...

but if men were also waiting (1/2 time, etc; happens also)...
What's the point?

rather cheat the men's line than the women's, I guess

to: forbiddencokedrinker... YES! I agree!

I had just finished a course in Hospice and knew what to look for when adults were being abused or mistreated in some manner. I had a strong sense we needed to report him to adult protective services. My husband agreed.

I don't know have any personal knowledge with groups that cover up their women, but it's sure an easy cover. You make an interesting point though!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 11:57PM by SusieQ#1.

I've read this story before and I agree the man should not have been in there, should not have been rude, they should have posted a guard, or somehow the whole affair should have been handled differently by the ward folks.

That being said, Susie, you and the classic definition of someone who left because you were offended. By leaving in this way, and if this is the reason you never came back, it is a clear case of the General Authorities being right. Some people leave the church because they are somehow offended by someone at church.

I stopped attending church in 2004, and probably started reading here (and other similar places) in 2004 or 2005. I am pretty sure that you are the first person I've ever encountered who left because of the three reasons the church leaders list as to why people leave the church. We've all heard it, and for the most part, it is utter nonsense that people leave because they are offended, they just want to sin, or they have no friends at church, but Susie, you left because of offense and never went back.

You admit you were willing to go occasionally, until this offense. It's sad. I sometimes find your comments insightful, but don't understand where you are coming from in many others. Perhaps this is a useful insight.

Unlike the majority of us who left because of doctrinal issues (it's all baloney and a waste of time and/or the teachings are actually harmful to many), that apparently didn't bother you much, because you "convinced [your] inactive daughter that [you] . . . ought to go to church once in a while."

It was only when you became offended by one individual's unusual (and inappropriate) behavior, and didn't get support from the membership with what you felt was your own "righteous indignation" that you left, never to return.

Please don't share this story places were Mormons can see it. They will think ALL Ex-Mormons are people who take offense easily and leave in a huff, when my experience with Ex-Mormons suggests they are far more thoughtful and conscientious than most active Mormons, and that the overwhelming majority of Ex-Mormons left (permanently, never to return) for doctrinal reason, chief among them being that the teachings are demonstrable lies.

I completely disagree with you. She didn't leave because she was simply offended, she left because the members of the church completely enabled a man who likes to peek at women and little girls in the ladies restroom! Sure, that man was offensive, but the situation wouldn't have happened if they'd made sure the man didn't have access to the ladies room, like normal people.

This is one of the countless stories about TSCC protecting men who are sexual deviants. It's absolutely disgusting, and any church that protects people like this old man instead of protecting the innocent victims can absolutely not be a true church. THAT is a good reason to leave.

Susie, you were 100% right to stop attending church completely after this situation. If that had happened to me, I'd be telling EVERYONE to stop attending, because I wouldn't want to have little girls in that bathroom while some old self-righteous perv watches.

The last straw does not mean that is the only reason she left. By definition, a last straw is a small thing on top of a lot of other things that make the load too heavy to bear.

You really are clueless.

On the one hand:
Ok, you can believe I left because I was "offended" -- that is just plain so silly it makes me chuckle.

You are the classic example, to use your terms, of someone who reads my writings and missing the point, makes up one of your own, and creates a whole new story. Amazing! Hmmm, maybe that's it!

I am one who promotes the notion of owning your own power, that means I don't give anyone permission or the power to offend me. You couldn't offend me if you tried! :-)

On the other hand:
Now, let me assume you are being facetious and this is a joke! Ya. that works! In that case, Very funny stuff!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2012 01:55AM by SusieQ#1.

I have to wonder this is a bad thing to happen but you tell us the rest of your time in the church is really great. Infact you give an amost perfect immage of the church exept this one insidant.

"When we came out of stalls and were washing our hands and had pulled up our dresses to adjust our underwear, she saw a man in the double mirrors! She alerted me while quickly putting her dress down."

Why didn't you fix that stuff in the stall?

AnonExMo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "When we came out of stalls and were washing our
> hands and had pulled up our dresses to adjust our
> underwear, she saw a man in the double mirrors!
> She alerted me while quickly putting her dress
> down."
>
> Why didn't you fix that stuff in the stall?

Do you not THINK before commenting?

Women often like to use mirrors in restrooms to adjust their dresses.

Are their mirrors in the stalls? No.