A friend of mine just posted on FB that she is enjoying watching some show called History of the Saints. She's a fairly rabid TBM, although she reigns it in on FB, thank heavens. So I'm assuming this isn't a Catholic-related program. But for some reason, for the first time, it bugged me that Mormons refer to themselves as Saints. It's terribly arrogant, isn't it? Or am I just in a mood to nitpick?

AND Latter day saints, no less.
The implication being the end is coming and they are the only saints around.

That's always bugged me. Mostly because I couldn't seem to pin point any saints in the crowd. I certainly wasn't comfortable referring to myself as a "saint". I'm a lot of things, but saint isn't one of them.

The audience is probably intended to be LD$ or in the western U.S. If not, they made a mistake choosing the title.

It can seem arrogant, because by tradition saints are exceptional, and rare, and TSCC designates every member as one. Personally, I think the piety of most saints is exaggerated, like FPR's, and most genuinely good or saintly people go unrecognized.

Funny thing is, I have met a couple of nuns who were really wonderful people, but everything I have ever heard about Mother Teresa, after you get passed the Catholic PR, is terrifying. Her hospices for the poor, deny the dying any form of pain killer and only the barest of comforts, because their suffering is supposed to help cleanse their spirit right before they go to see God.

They're not the only ones. A friend of mine, who works with Campus Crusade for Christ, refers to his organization as "we saints".

It used to bother me. But when I realized how completely conceited and "holier than thou" they are, what else could they call themselves while still on earth? After they die they are gods. They can't just be mere humans. They have to be saints.....GAG!

A lot of them refer to themselves as "saints" since that is supposed to mean they are sanctified to God. They generally feel they qualify for that by virtue of worshipping their deity. Think of the hymns like "When the Saints Go Marching In" and stuff like that.

:)

> It's terribly arrogant, isn't it?

well, it's also funny... so many groups of people claim to be "saints" even though they have totally different tenets.
Just a way to brag about their own religion/denomination... "I'm a saint and you're not", "I'm saved and you're not" etc.

I always thought it very arrogant that they were "saints" and others were heathens and gentiles,,and other negitive names. It always seemed the name calling and putting labels on groups was a mormon thing.

Some quotes from the wiki:

In Christian usage, "saint" refers to any believer who is "in Christ", and in whom Christ dwells, whether in heaven or in earth.

In Orthodox and Catholic teachings, all Christians in heaven are considered to be saints.
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It's probably some of the same "title inflation" you get with 12 year old's being deacons & 19 year olds being elders, but the term saint isn't really that ridiculous.

It actually is ridiculous.....most of the world is not going to think that it is normal.

Put mormons in perspective and realize they make up less than one percent of the worlds population. They then call themselves saints and proclaim that the unrepentant will spend eternity suffering in damnation.

That is ridiculous no matter who is thinking it. LDS or christian.

The "Saints" (Mormons) will call themselves that as it's part of the name of their church. It's also scriptural. No biggie.

I'm not big on titles, personally, but we can't escape them. I don't care to be called "sister" but it's their culture. I was often called: "sister" at home as I was the oldest female. Again, no biggie.

Titles are everywhere: religions and corporations, politics, business, etc. use titles to denote authority and their designation of offices. I've had plenty of mine in the business world.

They only apply to those in the church or business, etc.

Otherwise, I can ignore them. They have no particular meaning to me. They do, however, have a lot of meaning to those in the LDS Church, for instance as is to be expected.

I like the Prophet Drew Brees.

it's O.K. if they're New Orleans football fans...

I had a funny conversation with my elderly mother earlier this year when she asked me what I do on Sundays since I haven't gone to church in 30+ years. I told her that we usually watch the Saints, and she became very confused because "Saints" means something so different to her as a Mormon. We are New Orleanians and we practice our own form of devotion during football season. Way more fun than Joseph Smith and Co.

Joseph Smith, being from New England, pilfered that too.

Remember, the first settlers called themselves "Saints".

There is not one original thought in Mormonism whatsoever.

It doesn't bug me but it should bug catholics because only "exalted" members within the catholic church can become saints....of which I don't believe because man...and woman...in their very nature sin....constantly in the beliefs of Judeo-Christian theology. Thinking about calling someone an a$$hole because they have a better car than you constitutes in the eyes of the main christian religions.

With all that said, men and women cannot not sin...including those catholics exalted as saints. Hell..the Vatican itself is dealing with corruption and back-stabbing now, which validates my points about people being saints...

Now with mormons...living a good mormon spirtual and righteous life, sin everyday...especially the ones shunning that neighbor of a friend of mine, I mentioned in a different thread.....

I'm no saint but I already know that up so that's half the battly....

It's all an illusion by dr.Feelgood.

An imaginary blowjob.

Whilst I agree that Mormons calling themselves "Saints" is a little silly, at least it stops the Catholics from having their own way all the time.

Right now behind the scenes, the main catholics at the Vatican are duking it out over what direction the church will go based off of the new cardinals assigned or divined by the pope.

Not to inspiring to me.....

I just have to mention that I'm a huge New Orleans Saints fan and I certainly like the prophet Drew Brees better than the one the Mormons front.

The old term, "saints" as used in the NT simply means "members of the Church". For us to rail on the Mormons for using this term could be an embarrassment of ignornance in that context. It is the modern usage of the word that makes it seem self-aggrandizing.

A more erudite explanation can be found here:
http://www.gotquestions.org/saints-Christian.html

"Therefore, scripturally speaking, the “saints” are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saints—and at the same time are called to be saints."

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As an aside:

In the same sense, the "Extermination Order" given by Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs did not necessarily mean he was giving an order to kill Mormons. The threat was definitely implied if they refused to leave, but it was not open season for wanton killing as Mormons represent. The word "exterminate" from that time period had a less violent connotation:

The 1828 Webster's Dictionary says:

http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/exterminate

"Literally, to drive from within the limits or borders. Hence,

1. To destroy utterly; to drive away; to extirpate; as, to exterminate a colony, a tribe or a nation; to exterminate inhabitants or a race of men."

So when Mormons claim there was a blanket order to kill Mormons in Missouri until rescinded in 1976 puts a chronocentric spin on the situation.

Our criticizing the use of the word "Saint" is also chronocentric.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 07:15PM by srlowther.

Understandable, but...

The meaning has, in fact, changed. It hardly fits Mormons of today, although it fits their estimation of themselves. When words change, people adjust. In this case, as the word has come to signify a more holy person than average - almost godlike, the members have adjusted their ego to believe that.

Gay isn't used for happy anymore
Brat used to be what a bastard child was called
The Swastika was a holy symbol for the generation prior to Hitler

To continue to use a dated meaning for a word is more ignorant because it signifies a lack of continuing to educate oneself. And while the history of words is interesting and significant, when a word fundamentally changes it's meaning, to expect others to hold to the former meaning is ridiculous. But more importantly, I'd bet money that 1 in 100 Mormons could tell me what you told me. They, themselves, use Saint to mean "special, superior and chosen of God."

I see your point.

So does that mean they should change their name?

Nah, it doesn't bother me. Their definition is at least Biblical. It seems less silly that they refer to themselves as saints than for a much larger religion to pray to saints as intercessors to speak with God.

It is all made up anyways and one definition is no more valid than the next.

Actually, referring to the corporation they belong to as being a church bothers me more than calling themselves saints. They should change their name to The Corporation of Latter Day Saints Since other than in their corporation name Jesus Christ is rarely mentioned, they can drop that from the title.

that they so arrogantly hang the title of apostle on their business exec leaders, and blabber it off totally taking it for granted that the rest of us are just supposed to take it as auto matic given too.

Then MORmONS get upset when I say

"OHHHH, you mean that LYING POS David BEDNAR! "

Your question, "does it bug me to know that Latter Day Saints (Mormons) call themselves Saints?" Well, it certainly does not bother me at all because they are latter day Saints in apostosy including all restoration groups that formed out of the original church of 1829-30 up to the year of 1929.

Catholisim, including Eastern Orthox, Protestantism, and all secterian religious organizations that descended from the Ancient Church of Christ "Ancient Day Saints" began their apostosy with the taking over of the church by the Roman Emperor Constanine in the early fourth century A.D. and consummating in the years 569-669 A.D.

Most people are ignorant of how the term "Christanity" came into use as a nick name that was given to the saints by the non-believers there in Antioch; in time, probably after the first couple of centures, the saints had adopted the terminlogy of "Christianity."

It bothers me because my experiences with them contradict that word, but, at the same time it doesn't bother me because I don't believe in their religious views, so I don't believe in their self-entitled view as saints.

As someone else pointed out the word 'saint' used to refer to one who followed Christ. As in the letters to the "saints at Corinth" in the Bible, etc. It registers with me the way some groups refer to themselves as choir members, no biggie.

I'm sure that's why the original leaders of the Mormon church chose to define saints in that way, so that it would be in the faces of other religious believers.

It bugs me that people refer to mister Claus as a saint.