Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: November 24, 2010 07:48AM

In April of 1838, Church President Joseph Smith and his first counselor Sidney Rigdon moved to Far West, which became the new church headquarters. Although disfellowshipped, David and John Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, W.W. Phelps and other former leaders (who were known as the “dissenters”) continued to live in the County. By early June, some of the more zealous Mormons, led by Sampson Avard, formed a society which came to be known as the “Danites.” According to Marsh, these men swore oaths to “support the heads of the church in all things that they say or do, whether right or wrong” (Document, p. 57).

According to Reed Peck, two of these Danites, Jared Carter and Dimick B. Huntington, proposed at a meeting that the society should kill the dissenters. Marsh and fellow moderate, John Corrill, spoke vigorously against the motion (Peck, pp. 22-23). On the following Sunday, however, Sidney Rigdon issued his “Salt Sermon” in which he likened the dissenters to salt that had lost its savor and was “good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men” (Van Wagoner, p. 218). Within a week the dissenters had fled the county.

Although he may have been concerned about these events, Marsh remained in the church until late October. According to his sworn testimony, Marsh claimed that a Mormon invasion of Daviess County and the subsequent looting and burning of non-Mormon settlements, including Gallatin, the county seat, were the acts that caused him to leave. Marsh stated:
“A company of about eighty of the Mormons, commanded by a man fictitiously named Captain Fearnot [David W. Patten], marched to Gallatin. They returned and said they had run off from Gallatin twenty or thirty men and had taken Gallatin, had taken one prisoner and another had joined the company. I afterwards learned from the Mormons that they had burned Gallatin, and that it was done by the aforesaid company that marched there. The Mormons informed me that they had hauled away all the goods from the store in Gallatin, and deposited them at the Bishop’s storehouses at Adam-on-diahmon” (Document, p. 57).

On October 19, 1838, the day after Gallatin was burned, Thomas B. Marsh and fellow apostle Orson Hyde left the association of the Church. Marsh drafted and signed a legal affidavit against Joseph Smith on October 24, 1838, which Hyde also signed. In addition to reporting on the organization of the Danites and on the events in Daviess County, Marsh reported rumors that the Danites had set up a “destroying company” and that “if the people of Clay & Ray made any movement against them, this destroying company was to burn Liberty & Richmond.” He further stated his belief that Joseph Smith planned “to take the State, & he professes to his people to intend taking the U.S. & ultimately the whole world” (Document, p. 57). Marsh’s testimony added to the panic in northwestern Missouri and contributed to subsequent events in the Mormon War.

Because a Mormon attack was believed imminent, a unit of the state militia from Ray County was dispatched to patrol the border between Ray and Mormon Caldwell County to the north. On October 25, 1838, reports reached Mormons in Far West that this state militia unit was a “mob” and had kidnapped several Mormons. The Mormons formed an armed rescue party and attacked the militia in what became known as the Battle of Crooked River. Although only one Missourian was killed, initial reports held that half the unit had been wiped out. This attack on the state militia, coupled with the earlier expulsion of non-Mormons from Daviess County led Missouri’s governor Lilburn W. Boggs to respond with force. On 27 October he called out 2,500 state militia to put down what he perceived as a Mormon rebellion and signed what became known as the “Extermination Order” (Baugh, pp. 108–09).

Marsh was excommunicated from the Church in absentia on March 17, 1839 in Quincy, Illinois.
After Marsh moved to Utah and rejoined the Latter-day Saints, he looked back at his decision to leave the Church with regret. Concerning his actions in Missouri, he wrote:
“ About this time I got a beam in my eye and thought I could discover a mote in Joseph’s eye, though it was nothing but a beam in my eye; I was so completely darkened that I did not think on the Savior’s injunction: ‘Thou hypocrite, why beholdest thou the mote which is in thy brother’s eye, when a beam is in thine own eye; first cast out the beam out of thine own eye, then thou shalt see clearly to get the mote out of thy brother’s eye.’ ”


Years later, in 1864, George A. Smith claimed in a sermon that Marsh had left the church because of a dispute between his wife and other Mormon women over a milk cow.[2] Although this tale has made its way into Mormon folklore, Smith’s statements are not supported by any contemporary evidence.[3]

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: I believed this once, years ago.. ( )
Date: November 24, 2010 09:29AM

Yes, I completely believe JS felt entitled to rule not only America, but the world. I think BY had this same desire, and hoped the Civil War would destroy both Union and Confederate sides, and in this vacuum of power, he and his militia would march in and "save" America. But I digress.

Because of events like these, at the very beginning of the church, I don't think that the Mountain Meadow Massacre was a stand alone event. Both JS and BY were willing to shed blood to attain their ends; I think at the beginning TSCC was a con, that became criminal, that turned into a corporation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: November 26, 2010 07:21PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: toppity ( )
Date: July 08, 2013 09:47AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Gwylym ( )
Date: November 26, 2010 08:45PM

You reference a document named Document. Any way to get a copy of Document?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: November 26, 2010 10:54PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Sarony ( )
Date: May 11, 2011 02:30PM

I stumbled across it about a year ago. Sorry I did not retain it.
Your essay may be modified that it was not a single-issue departure of Brother Marsh.

If I find the reference, I will post it here. Someone just bad-mouth Marsh at the time of his departure with a derogatory comment about the milk strippings.

Does anyone have the reference I am referring to?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 11, 2011 02:34PM

You can read Will Bagley and David Bigler's "Innocent Blood" if you want an example of how this Mormon mafia sort operated...

He was probably the original source for a a lot of LDS myths about how the Fancher/Baker train--wiped out at Mountain Meadows--behaved in a fashion that somehow justified what was done to them.

Be prepared to be very, very angry, however...

Will and Dave have another book out on the 1857 "Utah War"; I'm going to try to get it and bring back a return-and-report...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Whiskeytango ( )
Date: July 08, 2013 11:22AM

I am reading that right now...A fantastic book..

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: homoerectus ( )
Date: July 08, 2013 11:28AM

Reminds me of Taliban it does.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: David Jason ( )
Date: July 08, 2013 11:33AM

Thanks for putting up the story. It has become a favorite pass time to google the people & events talked about while in church on Sundays.

The story in the lesson manual is usually the least credible or an outright fabrication.

The actual events aren't very faith promoting.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
       **  **     **  **    **  **    **  ********  
       **  ***   ***   **  **    **  **   **     ** 
       **  **** ****    ****      ****    **     ** 
       **  ** *** **     **        **     ********  
 **    **  **     **     **        **     **        
 **    **  **     **     **        **     **        
  ******   **     **     **        **     **