As I stood in line with my TBM husband to enter a movie in Utah County, I observed this creepy encounter:

Attractive man, 40ish says hellow to two young women who look like college freshmen: "Hi, how are you this evening, so and so?"

The young women look very wary. One of them says: "I'm sorry, I don't know who you are."

Man: "I'm your bishop. It's nice to see you. Out having fun at the movies?

The girl looks very uncomfortable, nods yes.

The man moves to the head of the line as the girls' line moves forward and talks to them some more (I can't hear their conversation at this point). The girls both look very uncomfortable.

I told my TBM husband about this afterwards--he didn't notice it because the theatre was very crowded. He said that was the wrong way for the bishop to go about it. "He shoudl have greeted them as 'Sister name' so they could at least know he was associated with the church."He agreed it was a creepy way to go about things.

You can approach me any time you want. No ruse needed! ;-)

How did the guy know he was their bishop if they didn't know him?

That's the really creepy part. He's probably looking them up on Facebook

Facebook, I'll bet. I hesitate to call it stalking because it's pretty common to google people and check them out on Facebook. How many of us don't do it, right? But it's still creepy for grown men to scope out other people's kids online, because they imagine having some kind of authority over them. And then to introduce himself as *her* bishop when she doesn't even know who he is. He's only her bishop if she agrees he's her bishop.

I use this ploy a lot when I meet wimmen. "Hi. I'm your bishop. Whatcha doin' tonight? Don't worry, you can feel safe around me. Nothing weird at all going on here."

Probably perfectly innocent. Making something of nothing?

Out here in the real world we realize that a strange adult approaching teen girls and striking up a conversation is weird -- especially if he keeps up the conversation when the teen girls in question a) indicated they don't know him and b) appear uncomfortable.

Yet another socially inept example, brought to you by the Mormons.

I think you would change your opinion after you did.

https://www.gavindebecker.com/resources/book/the_gift_of_fear/

It's creepy that he knew them, but they didn't know him. Too much interest shown on his part and creepily inappropriate. Bleeech.

Oh good grief. Typical teenage girl behavior. I wouldn't give it a second thought. The bishop probably had a little laugh over their behavior!

It's typical teenage girl behavior to be uncomfortable because an unknown, older man is greeting them by name and not picking up on their discomfort? Do you even live in this world or read the news? Got any clue about creepers and predators? Oh, but it's typical teenage girl behavior, not typical uncomfortable young women behavior, women who know what they are thinking and feeling and don't need someone like you to invalidate it. Your comment really makes me sick, actually.

For someone who is all preachy about love, compassion and lack of judgement, susieQ, you seem to do an inordinate amount of judging.

wittyname Wrote ____ take a deep breath and consider another scenero...


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> It's typical teenage behavior to get all creeped out because --- of a dozen reasons... and this time...OH MY GAWD.. I can't believe it.... the creepy bishop spoke to us in PUBLIC... I can't believe what a creep he is.....

I'd bet a dozen donuts they knew who he was.

Listen to a couple of teenage girls in the restroom!! It's a hoot! Also, I'll bet they were not dressed in what they were taught were Mormon dress standards tried to act like they didn't know who the bishop was ... so they can act like they didn't get caught ....

But, I'm just speculating... of course!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 11:44AM by SusieQ#1.

The man was inappropriate unless he was actually related to the girls. It's not that complicated.

You've invented an awful lot of "facts" in your head in order to justify this bishop's creepy behavior, haven't you? You just made two "bets" in this comment, for which you have no factual basis whatsoever. Anything to justify that TSCC is really okay and we should all just diminish our own feelings. Unless you say so, they simply aren't valid, are they?

To those who don't get it.

No, one random stranger greeting one in public is not a big deal. But when that greeting is received with less than enthusiastic "HI! So good to see you!" then continuing to pursue a conversation is rude and disrespectful at best. Creepy and stalkerish depending on how clear the reaction was.

Examples:
A clear reaction:
"I'm sorry, I have no idea who you are. Please go away."

A not-so-clear reaction:
"Uhhhhhmmm. Hi. Erm, nice to see you."

I am offended when I've been clear that the person needs to step off but they continue to ignore my boundaries and try to get up in my space/business anyway. That means my feelings aren't respected as valid. Them's fightin' words.

Real Life Example: I'm walking out of a grocery store and spot a panhandler sitting on the curb near my car. As I approach my car, he tells me he needs exactly $0.62 and then he will have enough to go into the store to buy a sandwich. I know he's targeted me because I keep spare change in the ashtray which is visible from outside the car. I tell the guy, "Yes, I have that amount of change and I will give it to you, but only if you would please take a few steps back away from me and my car." He politely respected that request and waited patiently for me to unlock my car and grab a handful of change. I did not bother counting out the exact amount; I just reached in and scooped out a bunch of change and then walked to him to hand it to him. My thinking was of security: if I allowed him to crowd right up next to me, he might be thinking of more than just spare change, could hit me or knock me out, steal the car, or throw me in the car and carjack/kidnap me and make me drive to the ATM to empty out my bank account. None of that happened because I was thinking ahead. Had the dude started crowding me or ignored my polite request for some safety buffer space, I would have driven off without giving him a thing except maybe a punch in the balls or something.

Not surprised you've estranged some family if this is what you think of adolescents.

Yeah, I can see some church guy saying high to girls in his congregation when he meets them casually -- but to follow along with them and keep the conversation going after they've indicated that they don't know him and appear uncomfortable?

Seriously, Susie, do you even think about how many perverts there are in this world and how inappropriate this is? Do you care even a little bit about the message these girls were getting that they can't respond to their feelings of discomfort around an inappropriate adult?

movie they were going to see???

How "outed" you could feel if you're still with in the clutches of the church, you know what your next interview will be about:
What movies have you seen lately???


I think "orgasmic" might be on the disapproved list!

Can you imagine how awkward that is for these girls??? What an invasion of their private choices!

Also I do not like the excuse for bad behavior "It's okay, I'm your Bishop."

What would of happened if they'd started backing away, saying very loudly "I don't know you! Stop talking to me! Go away! I do not know who you are! I've never seen you before in my life!"

So.... the girls didn't recognize the guy as their bishop?

Were the girls inactive?

thank MORmON god it wasnt pervert Joe Smith trying to cozy up to some fresh face teen girls or the dialogue would have been something like this.

"I am your latter day prophet! ..... wanna get washed and anointed? its very relaxing! how'd you like to be a celestial bride!"

Instead of nodding, the girl should have lifted an eyebrow, said, "I'm sorry, I STILL don't know who you are," and turned her back to him.

Very creepy behavior on his part.

I don't get why this is creepy.

Running into someone in the mall that you recognize from church and saying hi seems pretty normal to me. Chatting for a few minutes while standing in line for the movies also doesn't sound weird.

The kind of weird part is that they don't recognize him - but maybe it's him being in street clothes.

ronas Wrote:
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> I don't get why this is creepy.
>
> Running into someone in the mall that you
> recognize from church and saying hi seems pretty
> normal to me. Chatting for a few minutes while
> standing in line for the movies also doesn't sound
> weird.
>
> The kind of weird part is that they don't
> recognize him - but maybe it's him being in street
> clothes.

I agree. The bishop was no doubt with his wife and children.
When people claim they don't know someone, it makes me wonder why they would do that. What are they hiding? Teenage girls, doing something they don't want their parents to know about, maybe? Maybe they changed clothes when they left the house and they are afraid their bishop will mention how they are dressed to their parents. One girl says to another: you better hope nobody from church sees you dressed like that! ...
This is a culture that looks out for it's kids. I'm speculating...again. But I've seen it happen!:-)

That or the bishop was "no doubt" a sexual predator testing to see if the girls had an idea of appropriate boundaries or if they were ripe for manipulation.

Or he was "no doubt" not a bishop at all but someone who knows about the Mormon culture of authority to prey on young Mormon women.

Or he was clueless like CAGirl's Bishop Jackwagon.

Seriously, Susie, I get that you WANT this to be a harmless encounter but there was nothing in the original post to substantiate your incredibly hopeful assessment. There IS however, the evidence that the man didn't return to the invisble wife and children but instead follwed the girls as the line progressed. In the real world, this is inappropriate behavior.

By the way, what you are attempting to dismiss (yes, I know, it's a tribal thing) is the sort of behavior that grooms young people for sexual abuse and exploitation. Even if this man IS their bishop and he IS entirely innocent of all evil intentions, the actions were not ones that benefit these girls in the long run. That you attempt to normalize this and dismiss the discomfort of the girls as "just teen girls, hehehe" is kind of scary. Children need to be taught to follow through on their feelings of discomfort from a non-related adult -- not to ignore them.

Very well put Rebeckah. As one who was groomed and was molested, I thank you for taking the time to try to educate others.

It was very nice of you Susie to supply the Bishop with a wife and kids, just to make sure the mormons always look good.

Funny how you say, "no doubt" when nothing was said in the OP about a wife and kids, but it was mentioned the girls said they didn't know him.

Once the girls said they didn't know him, it becomes creepy for him to stay by any reasonable standards. Interesting how you immediately come riding in on your white horse to save the honor of the mormon.

A trained clergy would know that was his cue to leave. But, of course mormon bishops aren't given any training since they have nothing but good ole' H.G.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 05:56PM by blueorchid.

Doesn't make much difference if he actually had nefarious intent or not. His behavior was inexcuseable.

Why?

I don't get it.

Are you really offended when someone who recognizes you comes up to you in the mall and says hi?

Another example of Mormons refusing to recognize appropriate boundaries.

Sorry, but anyone who can't understand this is highly inappropriate won't get it no matter how much it's explained.

I agree that a stranger getting pushy with teenage girls who give him the brush off is innapropriate.

I just don't see evidence that is what happened here. You do, fine. I read it differently than you do. I would have been more interested in hearing why you read it that way than to get an abrasive response.

They said they didn't know him. If they did, they wouldn't have said that. And he continued to pursue them - no, that's not normal or acceptable. Grown men should not approach young girls in social situations and press his attentions on them, especially not after they've tried to give him the brush-off!

They could easily be the daughters of inactive parents. Or they could be off at college and inactive. It was clear from the first girl's reaction that she had never seen him before.

I get very, very nervous if someone in public approaches me and claims to know me and I don't recognize them. For a myriad of reasons, I prefer to be left alone than bothered by people I have less than luke-warm feelings for or don't remember. I hate awkward small-talk, it makes me uncomfortable and anxious and severely paranoid more than occasionally. I have been approached, more than once, by people who know people from my checkered past that I struggle to leave behind me. I get panic attacks from these experiences sometimes.

Maybe the young women were going to see an R rated movie and didn't want to be lectured on their choices. Maybe they both got the heebeejeebies from the bish. Maybe they just wanted to be left alone. Either way, if someone gives you the brush off, the polite and considerate thing to do is to give that person the space they need, not attempt to push and ingratiate yourself.

good grief

and to continue to bother someone who has shown they were not interested in carrying on a discussion is wrong. It is easy to assume maybe they were going to an R rated movie or were dressed wrong--but we know nothing about that issue--and it doesn't matter anyway.

I have had stalkers--one IS the custodian at the building the office is in. I can work in the office or at home. I've been in the working world for 30 or more years and have had 2 stalkers at work. I've worked around 100s of men. You know the difference immediately.

Unwanted attention is unwanted attention. The person giving the unwanted attention is not the victim and you do not have to be nice to them no matter what.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 12:34PM by cl2.

And lemme just add that a person who is insistant on your attention is time might have malicous intentions. You just never know what people can be capable of.

An example: When i first started working at a bar in Provo, one of the first tips I was given was to be careful driving home after closing up. On occasion, the other (female) bartenders will get a stalker and he will harrass and try to follow them to their home.
One night, there was a short, quiet Chilean man having a beer at the bar. He gave me some money to play "musica romanticas" on the jukebox. I didn't think anything of it, because customers from South and Central handed me money and asked me to pick out a bunch of songs on the jukebox. A few minutes later, my BFF/coworker came in and told me that guy was notorious for harrassing both female customers and bartenders and would not take no for an answer. He looked perfectly harmless.

Again, you can never be too sure what someone is capable of. Predators like to gage people's reactions to see how far they can push a potential victims.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 12:45PM by Itzpapalotl.

If the girls were uncomfortable, they were uncomfortable. Following them at that point was deeply inappropriate. Suggesting that they are somehow at "fault" because they're silly teenage girls is borderline abusive and certainly dismissive of them as human beings.

The same goes for kiddies who are told to always be polite to missionaries who approach them at the door and on the street. That's wrong because it means these kids have to be vulnerable to strangers and that can sometimes get them into serious problems.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 07:54PM by Cheryl.

was from Guatamala I believe. He was very friendly. I liked going in to the office at 5 a.m. and getting work done early and he'd be there cleaning. He stopped and talked every day and I was just being nice . . . next thing I know he was stopping me when I was out walking, or getting angry when he saw me out walking and I didn't wave or acknowledge him, followed me to the track--off the beaten path and waited for me (scared me sh*tless), told me in no uncertain terms that he was going to start walking with me and was thinking of leaving his wife. I told him, "No" and he got angry. I quit working at the office. I pretended my ex and I were back together to get him to keep some distance--and, yes, my ex moved back because of this problem. He would corner me in parking lots or block my escape. I still get that fight or flight feeling every time I see him.

He looks completely benign and is overly friendly. Found out he had done it to 2 other girls at the office, too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 12:49PM by cl2.

Something I have noticed is a some men who immigrate from Central and South America have the idea that all AMerican women are loose and easy. I don't think they really understand that when an American woman says no, she really means it thanks to ridiculous ideas that float around about all American women being sluts. It's not just limited to our southern neighbors as well. If someone already has that obsessive stalker mentality, it's like adding gasoline to the fire if they believ these ideas about American (or any for that matter) women.

Please don't interpet that as I think all men from Central and South Americas are like this, because i know many fine men from these countries as well.

Wasn't a reason for your leaving Mormonism was that a man was in the ladies restroom and you felt uncomfortable?

Longout Wrote:
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> Wasn't a reason for your leaving Mormonism was
> that a man was in the ladies restroom and you felt
> uncomfortable?


No. That was not the reason I left the LDS Church. Just the reason I left....that day and went home with the rest of my family.

I left the LDS Church because, in short, I realized back in the late 1998 or so that the claims don't hold up to scrutiny. It was an epiphany of sorts while reading a web page on line: there were no golden plates from any angel. Never needed any. Just the claim and those that acted as a "spiritual eye" witness. A spiritual witness doesn't need verifiable facts.


As a little background, I had lived with a sense of "something is wrong with this picture" for decades. I had a hard time accepting he was a prophet when I first converted in 1961 but I let that go. Now I knew he was no prophet!

It just never occurred to me that the picture was "off" because of Joseph Smith Jr himself. The core was the problem.His claims were not verifiable by any other means than the metaphysical, supernatural, or visionary.
Not to discount the power of those claims though. Those are the primary core of most religions.

I'll post my story later. I have to look it up.

I had been in an accident and had a bad concussion prior to my investigating the real story of Mormonism and have joked that I needed to get hit on the head ( a couple of times!) to jar me loose from the acceptance of Mormonism when I seemed to know all along that it didn't add up! :-)

Cheryl Wrote:
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> n/t
True Cheryl. But it's a reasonable reason!! :-) Much more to it than that though!

I don't know which is funnier, looking back now... your hose story or my restroom story! They are both good teaching lessons and good for a laugh --- although not funny at the time!

My theory. I think he expected the girls to be awestruck because he was their (angels singing) bishop. Instead, they were creeped out and let him know. He then continued to pester them in an attempt to eventually obtain the ego stroking that he was so desperate for.

If you read carefully notice I said "a" reason.
Anyway, my bad. I thought I remembered a story about a man being in the ladies room by SusieQ. It struck me that the man really crossed a boundary.

As an aside, I was loading groceries into my trunk and a man approached me to ask for money. He startled me so badly I screamed. A woman had been stabbed in that same parking lot previously while she was doing the same thing. This wasn't related to anything TSCC, but boundaries.

The teens at the movies should never have been approached by an adult if they were unaccompanied
-my opinion, thinking about my nieces. And Elizabeth Smart and Polly Klass.

Longout Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wasn't a reason for your leaving Mormonism was
> that a man was in the ladies restroom and you felt
> uncomfortable?

Ladies restroom + Man

Cinema + Man.

Nope. Not even similar.

You DO see that, don't you?

I think that Suzi might have been a bit over-eager to pass off the Bishop in the cinema event as being probably OK, but you attempting to equate a man in the ladies restoom (or s**thouse, as it is often known in the UK) with a man in a cinema is just being a bit barmy, to be honest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 07:40PM by matt.

Susie and her daughter upset about a) a man being inappropriate in an inappropriate place for him to be and b) their feelings of discomfort being dismissed by those around them as "just overly emotional women" and two teen girls being upset about a man being inappropriate with them by initiating and continuing contact in spite of the girl's discomfort and then Susie dismissing the discomfort of the girls as "oh, that's just teen girls".

See any parallels now?

I always use the "I'm your bishop" ploy when standing in line with younger girls in Utah. Then I try for the "impromptu worthiness interview" and, who knows, maybe later have them demonstrate their sin to me so I can better understand how they will have to repent.

and move *away* from them when they sense or anticipate discomfort. For example, in an elevator alone with a woman, most men will try to give the woman space. If he is walking behind a woman alone, he places himself where she will not feel threatened. Women and girls need to be encouraged to listen to their discomfort and act keep themselves safe.

Have to also wonder if the jerk was using them to move up in the line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 06:17PM by robertb.

Any woman who is approached by a male she doesn't know, should have her guard up. Like it or not, the world is not a safe place for women.
When was the last time you heard about a woman abducting a man, raping and killing him? Not very common.

Men who don't understand this, need to get educated. For most women this would feel like a threatening situation.

I was approached by an older male waiting in line at a movie when I was 14. He pulled a knife on me and tried to get me away from the crowd. I started screaming like a banshee and he ran off. I read this story, and that all came back in a flash. The scariest moment of my life.