Say, for instance, that a Mo apologist predictably tries to skirt around the bedrock LDS doctrinal fact that (contrary to current LDS PR spin), Mormon presidents, "prophets" and other high-ranking Church leaders have historically declared that exclusively and solely through the "one and only true" Mormon Church can one rise to the highest exalted level of Heaven and that all other churches are false, fallen, wayward, misguided, silly, superstitous, creations of men, in some form or fashion uninspired, produced and/or influenced by the Satan and therefore unworthy of membership.

"But," the Mormon apologist will attempt to counter, "there are good, God-inspired things in all religions and, besides, if Mormon prophets ever said the stuff you say they said about the LDS Church being "the one and only true one," that only shows that they were human--you know, speaking as men who were not under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Either that, or you don't get what they really meant. Blah, blah--and more blah."

It's a convenient get-out-of-Dodge dodge that serves as a catch-all escape hatch against various and frequent moronic Mormon "prophetic" utterances.

But don't fret. There's an effective response to such nonsense, for which I have yet to hear a cogent, persuasive or rational Mormon apologist answer.

That response goes like this:

OK, Brother/Sister Mormon Lesson Plan Talking Points, let's ignore for the moment all those uninspired babblings from all those merely-men-at-that-moment Mormon Church presidents, eventual Mormon Church presidents, wannabe Mormon Church presidents, Mormon Church apostles or other Mormon Church General Authorities--who opened their mouths and in the uninspired name of God inserted their foot down to their sphincters.

Instead, let's focus only on canonized, officially-accepted Mormon Church scripture, deemed as such by the Mormon Church itself--the "Standard Works," as you call them, against which all other claims are measured.

For instance, on the fact that the Mormon Church (despite all its Gumby-inspired hooey to the contrary) officially regards itself as the "one and only true church" and that all other churches are in some form or fashion evil, let's turn to the Mormon Church's very own holy scriptures--specifically, the "Pearl of Great Price" and the "Doctrine and Covenants":

--Were not all non-Mormon churches declared an "abomination" in the sight of God, as Mormon Church-inventor Joseph Smith claimed he was directly and face-to-face told by none other than God and Jesus themselves in that pivotal grove-of-trees moment? ("Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History," 1:19).

--And are you tellin' me, Brother/Sister Mo Apologist, that the Mormon Jesus was himself misquoted in the "Doctrine and Covenants" when he proclaimed that the Mormon Church was "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth"? ("Doctrine and Covenants," 1:30)
_____


You can make the same point to Mormon fall-backers on other inconvenient truths regarding actual historical and unrepealed official Mormon doctrine.

Elohim-dictated racism is a prime example.

It is easily demonstrable by pointing to still-standing verse in officially-canonized and unchanged-to-this-day LDS scripture (specifically, the "Book of Mormon" and the "Book of Abraham") that the Mormon Church, from its earliest foundations, has incorporated, preached, promoted and otherwise accepted racist theology as ingrained in its holy writ: namely, that Indians and Blacks received their dark skins as a curse from the White supremacist Mormon God. Look it up, all ye faithful; it's still there, in White and Black.

Of course, Brother/Sister the Prophet Will Deliver, might then retreat to another desperate corner of defense, claiming that the "living prophet" always takes precedence over previous scripture, dead guys and canonized included.

Well, if that's the case, then why doesn't the Mormon Church simply remove all the scriptures from its Standard Works that have been pre-empted and superceded by its modern-day-revealing "living prophets"? Or would that unacceptablly expose how much of backward Mormon scripture is so bogus, bigoted and unsupportable that even LDS Inc. tries to sandblast it into oblivion? (Besides, if that exorcism editing effort was undertaken, it would reduce the "Standard Works" to the "Standard Pamphlets").

Now, good luck and godspeed, Brother and Sister Lyin' Lemmings for the Lard, as you tell God, Jesus, Abraham and all them "Book of Mormon" prophets that that they were wrong, uninspired and speaking only as men when they produced those books you accept as official LDS scripture.

But, then again, I'm sure FAIR/FARMS has already done that. :)



Edited 17 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2010 10:11AM by steve benson.

They tried to change white and delightsome to pure, and could further purge their racism by dropping the indefensible BofA, but with great irony defend it, AND still try not to look racist. Like no one will notice.

The us vs. them issues where TSCC "stands for something" are their main selling points. They have to have someone to look down on, but are now trying to do it in a backhanded, genteel way.

If gawd was all powerful, as he is supposed to be, he would be in charge of his message: the profit would punch his time card, and be on the clock, when speaking for the lard, and off the clock when speaking as a man. A real gawd would make a distinction, and control his message, so no one would misunderstand his intent. Isn't that another selling point of TSCC? We have a profit, with a direct line to gawd, to end the confusion brought about by the collapse of jeezus's organization? THIS is why there was a restoration? Wow, gawd even messed up his own restoration!

Sadly all profits and popes have had this problem, I wonder why?

Mopologist = mop-ologist, because they are cleaning up after a gawd-made disaster of bronze age epic ...biblical... proportions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2010 04:00AM by atheist&happy:-).

Several things are implicit in this silly last-ditch statement:

1) Why does no one ever say that any of the CURRENT Mormon leaders are "speaking as men?" In fact, you would be excommunicated if you were to say that Monson et al. are speaking as men in their activities. Criticizing current leaders is really the only major offense in Mormonism.

2) The basis for someone making the statement "he was only speaking as a man" puts at risk the legitimacy of the current leadership. How are we to know that Mormon activities on Prop 8 were not just them "speaking as men?" My prediction is that this is exactly what mopologists 10-15 years from now will be saying.

3) How do you know that Brigham Young, John Taylor, Spence Kimball, etc. were speaking as men when they said outrageous, offensive statements about Indians turning white or that interracial children should be murdered?

The answer, supposedly, is if their statements contradict scriptures. That's not good enough, though, because you can find a scripture to support basically any moral proposition. For one example of this, see http://sexinchrist.com Believing that Indians who become Mormon turn white also has scriptural basis, why shouldn't Mormons believe this?

Additionally, how are you to know that your interpretation of scripture is correct? The so-called Spirit? What if I have a warm fuzzy about a different passage? There is no way in Mormonism to see whose warm fuzzy wins.

4) If God routinely permits people to preach false doctrine, isn't it the responsibility of members to alert each other when they hear such false doctrines? Mormon leaders should be grateful to their members who disagree doctrinally with them, after all, they might be helping to save the eternal souls of Mormons who might believe the erroneous doctrine. As Bruce McConkie noted:

"I do not know all of the providences of the Lord, but I do know that he permits false doctrine to be taught in and out of the Church and that such teaching is part of the sifting process of mortality. We will be judged by what we believe among other things. If we believe false doctrine, we will be condemned. If that belief is on basic and fundamental things, it will lead us astray and we will lose our souls."

Instead of excommunicating people who want to pray to Heavenly Mother, want polygamy restored, or bashing people who believe in the hemispheric model of the BOM, the Mormon church should be hailing their brave stands in favor of true doctrine!

5) How does the fact that God tolerates his leaders preaching false doctrine on a regular basis jive with the common Mormon belief that God will never permit the leaders to lead the church astray?

Adam-God certainly sounds like leading the church astray. If you don't know who God is, surely that would qualify as a damning doctrine. And yet, it was taught for generations within the Mormon church, consigning hundreds of thousands of souls to the fires of hell for believing that Adam from the Bible is actually Elohim.

Either there is no God at the helm of Mormonism and that is why false notions are routinely preached in General Conference or God is a mean, sneaky jerk who likes to "test" people by allowing his self-proclaimed servants to lie to them. There isn't really any alternative.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2010 10:22AM by Beavis Christ.

this is FAIRs official response to "what is church doctine?". they link to it from their table of contents.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Fallibility_of_prophets#Standard_of_doctrine_in_the_Church

"President George Q. Cannon (counselor in the First Presidency) explained that the scriptures are the only source of official doctrine, coupled with later revelation to the prophets that has been presented to the Church and sustained."

this is actually REALLY awesome! think how many silly ideas/"rules" that members and leaders treat as doctrine, which are not in the scriptures, have never been sustained as doctrine in the manner described by FAIR!

since masturbation is not in the scriptures, when and where was a prohibition against masturbation brought before the church and sustained as doctrine?

booyah!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2010 04:45AM by Nick Humphrey.

Could it be that President George Q. Cannon was speaking 'only as a man'...

This is the LDS Church's 'get out of jail free card' to be used whenever and wherever the truth gets in the way of a good story.

Jon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could it be that President George Q. Cannon was
> speaking 'only as a man'...

they give several similar examples of this, from different leaders: harold lee, b. h. roberts, bruce mcconkie

they are admitting that their scriptures are not, as a whole, divinely inspired.

The following is one of the most blatantly racist scriptural passages in all of the Mormon canon:

"And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men."

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/3/6#6


Yet one Mormon apologist dismisses this repugnant racism with a few strokes of the keyboard:

"...[S]ome later [Nephite prophets] CONSIDERED ... the mark upon the Lamanite skins to be a curse." [Emphasis added]

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=15&num=2&id=508


So, what we were all taught to be inspired, prophetic words, revealed directly from God, are now simply "considerations"--irrelevant commentary--"Nothing to see here, folks. Move along."

("We believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God ... mingled with the philosophies of men.")



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2010 10:44AM by Fetal Deity.

One can get more reliable, believable predictions on a more regular basis from the nightly news weather forecaster.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2010 05:06PM by steve benson.

So are they now denying that they aren't the one and only true church?? That's a new one.

I need your little bird on my shoulder when I get into these kinds of discussions with my brother.

Mormon apologists are again--and deliberately (as they have been doing throughout their cult's history)--abandoning and/or misrepresenting basic, fundamental, canonized and original LDS doctrine in a devious and dishonest effort to curry favor with the outside world.

In short, Mormon defenders have consciously booted their own 13th Article of Faith about being "honest" and "true," in the unholy name of public-relations expediency.

So, what else is new?

Exhibit A in the continuing unspinning of Mormon doctrine as it was originally concocted (and as it remains to this day, even though publicly denied) is an anonymous article headlined, "Mormon Attitudes to Other Faiths," accompanied by the the blatantly false subhead, "The background to Mormons' tolerant attitude to other faiths, which stems from a belief that other peoples can also be inspired by God."

Have your bovine fertilizer detection meter at the ready:

"Mormons do not believe that they are the only people inspired by God and so have a tolerant attitude to other faiths.

"Although Mormons are certain that their Church teaches the true doctrines of salvation, they don't see it as the only teacher of truth.

"They believe that there is truth in many religions and philosophies, and that the teachings of many different great religious leaders have raised the spiritual and moral awareness of humanity.

"They see all human beings as children of the Father in heaven, regardless of their beliefs.

"This is demonstrated in the eleventh of their 'Articles of Faith':

"'We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may']
(Article 11 of the "Articles of Faith")

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints suffered greatly from religious intolerance in the early days, and so it's not surprising that Church members are entirely against persecuting other faiths.

"All Church members, including missionaries, are expected to be sensitive and respectful toward the beliefs of others and to avoid giving offence.


"The only true church

"If Mormons accept that other faiths have lots of good things, how can they believe that they are the only true church?

"When Mormons refer to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the only true church, they mean that it is the only church with the authority to administer the ordinances of salvation, and the only church led by Jesus Christ, through the earthly ministries of prophets and Apostles.


"Official statement

"In 1978 the Church's First Presidency issued a statement that:

" * All human beings are children of God and therefore brothers and sisters.

" * The only way to obtain a fullness of joy is through the gospel as restored to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

" * Everyone will have the opportunity to accept the gospel, if not in mortality, then in the life to come.

" * Great religious leaders of the world received 'a portion of God's light.'

" * These leaders and others were given moral truths by God 'to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.'

"This statement was not a blanket approval of every doctrine of every faith. There are many religious ideas in the world that Latter-day Saints disapprove of; but they are expected to disapprove of them tolerantly and respectfully.


"A controversial doctrine

"Mormons believe that God's plan of salvation includes nonbelievers and believers, as well as those who have never heard of Jesus Christ.

"They believe that members of other faiths will have the opportunity to learn the true gospel of Jesus Christ after their earthly deaths. They will be able to accept or reject that gospel.

"Members of other faiths will also have the chance to accept or reject the covenants and ordinances of salvation performed for them by proxy on earth.


"Useful quotations

"Gerald E Jones wrote:

"'I believe that we owe respect to all churches and organisations that lead men to act more righteously than they otherwise might, even if they don't hold the keys of salvation and even if there is much error in their teachings. Latter-day Saints should not look on other churches as totally false.' . . .

"The founder of the Church, Joseph Smith, said:

"'While one portion of the human race is judging and condemning the other without mercy, the Great Parent of the Universe looks upon the whole of the human family with a fatherly care and paternal regard; he views them as his offspring, and without any of those contracted feelings that influence the children of men.'"

("Mormon Attitudes to Other Faiths", unsigned, on webiste of "BBC" (British Broadcasting System), under "Religions," last updated 5 October 2009, at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/mormon/beliefs/other.shtml)

Similar deceptions are being invented, as needed, under the banner of supposed "myth-busting."

From this pablum-producing LDS apologist website under the headline, "MYTHBUSTERS: The 'One True Church'":

"There are a lot of myths both inside and outside Mormondom about the LDS claim to be the 'one true Church.' That claim is difficult for people of other faiths to accept for obvious reasons. But some Mormons may struggle with it as well because it may seem difficult to reconcile that claim with our belief in a just and merciful God who loves all his children equally.

"I do not expect it will ever be 'easy' to accept the 'one true Church' claim. However, I think Church members can unfortunately make it more difficult to accept the 'one true Church' claim than is necessary because they jump to some unnecessary conclusions about what the 'one true Church' claim actually means.

"In order to correctly understand what the 'one true Church' claim truly means, we first need to be clear about what that claim does not mean.

"Although the LDS Church unapologetically claims to be the exclusive holder of priesthood keys, Mormons do not claim any monopoly on truth or communication with God. To the contrary, Mormons believe that God calls and guides leaders of all faiths to deliver truth to his children and accomplish his great work, and that God loves and guides all who sincerely seek him, regardless of what religion or church they belong to. The following is my attempt to bust some of the many myths about what the 'one true Church' claim means by using the words of Church leaders and Church publications . . .

"Myth: In Joseph Smith’s day, the Christian churches were completely corrupt and were an abomination to the Lord.

"MythBuster:

“'Informed Latter-day Saints do not argue that historic Christianity lost all truth or became completely corrupt. The orthodox churches may have lost the ‘fullness’ of the gospel, but they did not lose all of it nor even most of it. . . . [T]he actual LDS view, [] is that the orthodox churches are incomplete rather than corrupt. It is their postbiblical creeds that are identified in Joseph Smith’s first vision as an ‘abomination,’ but certainly not their individual members or their members’ biblical beliefs.' (Stephen E. Robinson, as quoted on www.lds.org) . . .


"Myth: As God’s covenant people, Mormons are the people God has chosen to perform his great and marvelous work.

"MythBuster:

“'God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of His great and marvelous work. The Latter-day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous for any one people. … We have no quarrel with the Gentiles. They are our partners in a certain sense.' (Elder Orson F. Whitney, quoted by Elder Ezra Taft Benson)


"Myth: Although well-intentioned, leaders of other religions and churches are unwitting servants of the devil who are deceiving and leading God’s children astray.

"MythBuster:

“'We believe that most religious leaders and followers are sincere believers who love God and understand and serve him to the best of their abilities. We are indebted to the men and women who kept the light of faith and learning alive through the centuries to the present day. . . . We honor them as servants of God.' (Elder Dallin H. Oaks)

“The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals. . . . We believe that God has given and will give to all peoples sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to eternal salvation.” (Elder James E. Faust)


"Myth: People belong to either the LDS church or the 'Church of the Devil,' also known as the 'great and abominable Church.'

"MythBuster:

“'[I]ndividual orientation to the Church of the Lamb or to the great and abominable church is not by membership but by loyalty. Just as there Latter-day Saints who belong to the great and abominable church because of their loyalty to Satan and his life-style, so there are members of other churches who belong to the Lamb because of their loyalty to him and his life-style. Membership is based more on who has your heart than on who has your records.' Stephen E. Robinson ("Ensign" magazine)

"'We must understand . . . that not everyone is going to accept our doctrine of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. For the most part, our neighbors not of our faith are good, honorable people-every bit as good and honorable as we strive to be. They care about their families, just like we do. They want to make the world a better place, just like we do. They are kind and loving and generous and faithful, just like we seek to be.' (Elder M. Russell Ballard) . . ."

("MYTHBUSTERS: The 'One True Church,' published by "Andrew," on "Mormon Matters," 21 January 2008, under "LDS, Mormon, Mormons, apologetics, missionary and mormon," at: http://mormonmatters.org/2008/01/21/mythbusters-the-one-true-church/)
_____



Oh, pleeeeeze. Mormon history, doctrine, scripture and tradition--from the onset of the Mormon Church (as invented by its convicted con man and eventually gun-downed treasurer hunter/polygamist founder Joseph Smith) up to modern day (as taught by its presidents and other highest-ranking leaders) point to exactly the opposite.

For the truth of the matter (as falling from the lips of its own "prophets, seers and revelators"), below is an article entitled, "The Mormon Church Claims to be the Only True Church. Does Joseph Smith Jr. Play a Role in Our Salvation?"

The answer is clear. According to the Mormons (and despite their lies to the contrary) the answer is yes. Here's the on-the-record proof:

" * Joseph Fielding Smith said: '[There is] no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth . . . no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God' ('Doctrines of Salvation,' vol. 1, p.190).

" * Brigham Young stated: 'No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith . . . [E}very man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are.' ('Journal of Discourses,' vol. 7, p.289).

" * Brigham Young also declared, '[H]e that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ' ('Journal of Discourses,' vol. 9, p.312).

" * President George Q. Cannon said: 'If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith],' (as quoted in '1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide,' p. 142).

"Can salvation can come only through the LDS Church?

" * Mormon scriptures claim that the LDS church is 'the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth' ('Doctrine and Covenants,' 1:30).

" * Joseph Smith stated: 'This [the LDS] Church . . .is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth' ('Doctrine and Covenants,' 1:30).

" * President Ezra Taft Benson said: 'This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth . . .' ('Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson,' pp. 164-65).

"' * Bruce McConkie stated: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Mormon Doctrine, p.670).

" * Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, 'This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life' ('Conference Report,' April 1961, pg. 119).

"Statements by Mormon Leaders about Christian churches (made by many of the LDS Prophet-Presidents):

" * Joseph Smith stated that God told him: '[T]hey [other churches] were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt' (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19).

" * Joseph Smith continues: '[F]or the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible' (from 'Pearl of Great Price,' in 'Joseph Smith-History,' 1:12). 'What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world ('Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,' p.270).

" * Questions put to Joseph Smith: 'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." ('Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,' p. 119).

" * Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: 'When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness' ('Journal of Discourses,' 5:73); 'The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God' ('Journal of Discourses,' 8:171); 'With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world' ('Journal of Discourses,' 8:199); 'And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? . . . You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); 'Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity' ('Journal of Discourses,' 10:230).

"* Orson Pratt proclaimed: 'Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent' ('The Seer,' p. 255).

"* Pratt also said: 'This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now' ('Journal of Discourses,' vol. 18, p.44) and: 'But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be . . . But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" ('Journal of Discourses,' 18:172).

" * President John Taylor stated: 'Christianity . . . is a perfect pack of nonsense . . . [T]he devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.' ('Journal of Discourses,' vol. 6, p.167); 'Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.' ('Journal of Discourses,' 10:127).

" * James Talmage said: 'A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ' ('A Study of the Articles of Faith,' p.182).

" * President Joseph Fielding Smith said: 'Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness.' ('Doctrines of Salvation,' p.266). 'For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation . . . Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the "Christian" churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" ('Doctrines of Salvation,' vol. 3, p.282).

" * More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: 'Apostasy was universal . . . [a]nd this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel' (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); 'Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general' ('The Millennial Messiah,' p.403); '[A]perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom' (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); '[V]irtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit' ('Mormon Doctrine,' p.269); 'Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era.' ('Mormon Doctrine,' p.316).

" * President George Q. Cannon said: 'After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon' ('Gospel Truth,' p.324).

" * President Wilford Woodruff stated: '[T]he Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called' ('Journal of Discourses,' vol. 2, p.196).

("The Mormon Church Claims to be the Only True Church. Does Joseph Smith Jr. Play a Role in Our Salvation?," by Michael Davis, at: http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/onlytrue.html)
_____



If that isn't enough, here's more that busts this myth perpetuated by so-called Mormon "myth-busters," under the heading, "What Has the Mormon Church Historically Taught About Christianity?":

"While some current church leaders portray the LDS Church as Christian, the church actually has a long history of condemning Christianity. The church has also stated repeatedly that no one can be saved without the permission of Joseph Smith. The church has even suggested that Islam is better than Christianity.

"Mormon Church Condemns Christians . . .

"'In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ." 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.' (Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS "Church News," June 20, 1998, p.7)

"'My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.'

"I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” He again forbade me to join with any of them;. . . .' (Prophet Joseph Smith, "Joseph Smith History," 1:18-20)

"'What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world.'
(Prophet Joseph Smith, "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," p.270)

"'. . . [A]ll the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels.'
(Prophet Joseph Smith, "The Elders Journal," Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60)

"'For centuries men gathered and argued concerning the nature of Deity. Constantine assembled scholars of various factions at Nicaea in the year 325. After two months of bitter debate, they compromised on a definition which for generations has been the doctrinal statement among Christians concerning the Godhead.'

"'I invite you to read that definition and compare it with the statement of the boy Joseph. He simply says that God stood before him and spoke to him. Joseph could see Him and could hear Him. He was in form like a man, a being of substance. Beside Him was the resurrected Lord, a separate being, whom He introduced as His Beloved Son and with whom Joseph also spoke.'

"'I submit that in the short time of that remarkable vision Joseph learned more concerning Deity than all of the scholars and clerics of the past.'

"'This knowledge of Deity, hidden from the world for centuries, was the first and great thing which God revealed to His chosen servant. And upon the reality and truth of this vision rests the validity of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.' (Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, "The Great Things Which God Has Revealed," Spring Church Confernece 2005) . . .

"'And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.' ("Book of Mormon," 1 Nephi 14:10-11) . . .

"'With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.' (Prophet Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," 8:199)

"'The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God' (Prophet Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," 8:171)

"'Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.' (Prophet Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," 6:176)

"'Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men.

"'The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. . . .

"'You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.' (Apostle Heber C. Kimball, "Journal of Discourses," 5:89) . . .

"'But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches . . . But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance' (Apostle Orson Pratt, "Journal of Discourses," 18:172) . . .

"'Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.' (Prophet John Taylor, "Journal of Discourses," 10:127)

"'What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast.' (Prophet John Taylor, "Journal of Discourses," 13:225)

"'What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing . . . . Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God.'
(Prophet John Taylor, "Journal of Discourses," 13:225) . . .

"'Instead of having apostles, prophets, and other inspired men in the church now, receiving visions, dreams, revelations, ministry of angels and prophesies for the calling of officers, and for the government of the church--they have a wicked, corrupt, uninspired pope, or uninspired archbishops, bishops, clergymen, etc., who have a great variety of corrupt forms of godliness, but utterly deny the gift of revelation, and every other miraculous power which always characterized Christ's Church.'

"'These man-made, powerless, hypocritical, false teachers, make merchandise of the people, by preaching for large salaries, amounting in many instances to tens of thousands of dollars annually. They and their deluded followers are reprobate, denouncing the faith once delivered to the Saints.'
( Apostle Orson Pratt, "Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon," p. 20)

"' . . . [T]he Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, . . . But with the Bible it was not and is not so. . . .[I]t was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, "The Joseph Smith Translation," pp. 12-13)

"'Must we, under the broad folds of the American Constitution, be compelled to bow down to the narrow contracted notions of Apostate Christianity? Must we shut up our consciences in a nut shell, and be compelled to submit to the bigoted notions, and whims, and customs of the dark ages of popery, transferred to us through the superstitious of our fathers? Must we be slaves to custom and render homage to the soul-destroying, sickening influences of modern Christianity? No!' (Apostle Orson Pratt, "The Seer," Vol.1, No.7, p. 111)

"'And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this (Mormon) church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth . . . .' (supposedly Jesus Christ Himself, "Doctrine and Covenants," 1:30)


"Salvation not Through Jesus Christ, but Joseph Smith? . . .

"'Our entire case as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rests on the validity of this glorious First Vision. . . . Nothing on which we base our doctrine, nothing we teach, nothing we live by is of greater importance than this initial declaration. I submit that if Joseph Smith talked with God the Father and His Beloved Son, then all else of which he spoke is true. This is the hinge on which turns the gate that leads to the path of salvation and eternal life.' (Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, "Ensign" magazine, November 1998, pp.70-71) . . .

"'[E]very man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are . . . [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim, "Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true.' (Prophet Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," vol. 7, p. 289-91)

"'He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ" (Prophet Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," vol. 9, p.312)

"'I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him.

"'I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me.

"'Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again.'
(Apostle Orson Hyde, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 6, p.154-155

"'It is to be feared that in course of a century, some gifted man like Paul, some splendid orator, who will be able by his eloquence to attract crowds of the thousands who are ever ready to hear, and be carried away by, the sounding brass and tinkling cymbal of sparkling oratory, may command a hearing, may succeed in breathing a new life into this modern Mahometanism, and make the name of the martyred Joseph ring as loud, and stir the souls of men as much, as the mighty name of Christ itself. Sharon, Palmyra, Manchester, Kirtland, Far West, Adam-ondi-Ahman, Ramus. Nauvoo, and the Carthage Jail, may become holy and venerable names, places of classic interest, in another age; like Jerusalem, the Garden of Gethsemane, the Mount of Olives, and Mount Calvary to the Christian, and Mecca and Medina to the Turk.' (Prophet Brigham Young, 'History of the Church,' Vol. 7, p.40-41)


"Islam Better than Christianity?

"'The Greek and Roman Churches, which have been called Christian, and which take the name of Christians as a cloak, have worshipped innumerable idols. On this account, on the simple subject of the Deity and His worship, if nothing more, I should rather incline, of the two, after all my early traditions, education, and prejudices, to the side of Mahomet, for on this point he is on the side of truth, and the Christian world on the side of idolatry and heathenism.' (Apostle Parley P. Pratt, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 3, p.38)

"' . . . [I]nstead of saying that Mahometanism prevailed against Christianity, and that Christianity was in danger of being done away by its prevalence, we would rather say, that where Mahometanism prevailed, it taught and established one truth at least, viz., the true and living God, and so far as this went, it did preserve people from worshipping idols. And had the crescent waved on the tower of London, or on the church of St. Paul, instead of the cross, and had the Mahometan religion been enforced instead of the Roman religion that was enforced for a series of generations, and had tradition riveted what the sword enforced, then that nation and the surrounding nations would have been worshippers of one true God instead of idols; they would have recognized it in theory at least, whether they would have worshipped Him in spirit and in truth or not. But now [Christians] do not recognize Him in theory, for they acknowledge as their god an imaginary being without body, parts, or passions.' (Apostle Parley P. Pratt, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 3, p. 39)

"'Now, if we take Mahometanism during those dark ages, and the corruptions that are so universally prevalent over the earth, and the idolatrous systems of religion, falsely called Christianity, and weigh them in a balance; with all my education in favor of Christian nations and Christian powers, and Christian institutions, so called, with all my prejudices of early youth, and habits of thought and reading, my rational faculties would compel me to admit that the Mahometan history and Mahometan doctrine was a standard raised against the most corrupt and abominable idolatry that over perverted our earth, found in the creeds and worship of Christians, falsely so named.' (Apostle Parley P. Pratt, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 3, p.40)

"'Though Mahometan institutions are corrupt enough, and need reforming by the Gospel, I am inclined to think, upon the whole, leaving out the corruptions of men in high places among them, that they have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations; and in many localities there have been high standards of morals. So far as that one point is concerned, of worshipping the one true God under the name of Mahometanism, together with many moral precepts, and in war only acting on the defensive, I think they have exceeded in righteousness and truthfulness of religion, the idolatrous and corrupt church that has borne the name of Christianity.'(Apostle Parley P. Pratt, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 3, p. 41)

("What Has the Mormon Church Historically Taught About Christianity?," by "Deconstructor," under "Mormons and Christianity," at: http://www.i4m.com/think/history/mormon_christians.htm)

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How can you tell if a Mormon is lying? Their secret handshake is moving. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2010 06:19PM by steve benson.