. . . with Jewish leaders at important levels who are now in possession of more critical working information and are in a position to act as, and when, they see fit.

As I indicated would be the intent, the issues were laid out in detail today in a returned-call personal phone conversation, which proceeded along the following lines, in terms of information exchange.

What I relayed:

--The Mormon Church, through its necro work, not only dead-dunks Jewish Holocaust victims.

It also:

--Confirms dead Jewish Holocaust victims as members of the Mormon church;

--Seals dead Jewish Holocaust victims, in various Mormon temple rituals, to the Mormon church and to Mormon members themselves through secret oaths of allegiance and handshakes engaged in by proxy temple workers dressed in Masonic costumes;

--Performs proxy necro ceremonies for dead Jewish Holocaust victims, the details of which the Mormon church does not talk about.

--Invades the tribes of ancient Israel to which these dead Jewish Holocaust victims belong (through patriarchal blessings pronounced on Mormon church members where Mormons are notified of the ancient tribe of Israel to which they themselves are attached); with this being done by Mormons by "adopting" themselves, through covenant, into the Jewish bloodline; and then

--Extinguishes the very Jewish identity of dead Holocaust Jewish victims by transforming these Nazi-slaughtered Jews, who died for their faith, into Mormons.
_____


Other points covered:

--Information has been relayed that (despite Mormon church claims that it cannot effectively control local church membmers who are necro-dunking dead Holocaust Jewish victims), the Mormon church is definitely able to see and review the extracted names of dead Jewish Holocaust victims whose names have been submitted for--and ultimately processed through--its necro-dunking rituals.

--Explanation has been given that the Mormon church has only now taken action against church members involved in the dead-dunking of Simon Wiesenthal's parents because the Mormon church has been seriously and publicly embarrassed by the episode--although the Mormon church has known for years that dead Jewish Holocaust victims have continued to be necro-dunked,

--Reference has been provided to public news reports exhibiting screenprints of Mormon church computer records showing the names, the dead-dunking dates, the dead-dunked membership confirmations and notices of completion of necro work done on dead Jews who have been processed into Mormon membership ranks via LDS proxy rituals.

--Emphasis has been made of how the Mormon church has serious financial incentive to continue performing its dead-dunking rituals, due to the fact that Mormons who wish to be "families forever" pay a required temple entrance fee of 10% of their income to attend and work in Mormon temples for not only the dead, but for their own personal salvation.

--Note has been made that Mormons fervently do necro-dunking for dead Jewish Holocaust victims because they believe that dead Jewish Holocaust victims are anxiously waiting to have it done for them.

--The point has been accentuated that Mormon necro-work is what keeps Mormon temples operating and, indeed, if it was not for that necro work (which comprises the vast majority of what Mormons busy themselves with doing in their temples), there would be very little for Mormons to do in temples.

--Explanation has been offered as to how the Mormon church builds temples in carefully demographically-analyzed areas, where temple construction is based on Mormon population density and projected Mormon population growth so that Mormon church earnings can be maximized through charging for temple entry and participation.
_____


The response to these points included:

--The Mormon church has got dead Jewish Holocaust victims coming and going.

--The Mormon church has promised in several meetings with Jewish leaders to stop the necro-dunking of dead Holocaust Jewish victims but has not kept its promises.

--The Mormon church desires acceptance by larger society but is not willing to pay the price necessary for that acceptance by changing and ceasing its offensive necro-work doctrines or practices.

--the Mormon church could, if it genuinely wanted to, stop in short order its offensive practice of necro-dunking dead Jewish Holocaust victims.

--Disappointed and frustrated Jewish representatives will be soon meeting. yet again, with Mormon church leaders to re-convey their objections, grievances and demands.
_____


In the meantime, the channel of communication remains open.



Edited 23 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:26PM by steve benson.

You've done a fine job, Steve. Please keep us posted.

TG

Incredible. I'm sure the information was presented with great precision minus the good laughs usually wrapped in your presentations. :)

Thanks for sharing the substance here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 10:42PM by thingsithink.

Wow, I read your post again. I didn't really catch it the first time through - the fact that the mormon church uses necro-dunking to keep the money coming in. It makes sense.

All the more reason to see this issue come to the forefront. Thanks again.

Great work Steve!

You could add the ordination of twelve year olds to the Aaronic priesthood - A mockery of the original jewish ritual and in contravention of the command that only the descendants of Aaron could have that priesthood. The bestowal of this "priesthood" forming the basis for ongoing mysogyny and bigotry, and in past times, racism.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 11:10PM by steve benson.

I can imagine!

That Mormons cannot see that what they are doing is "mockery" is pretty telling. While I would argue that free speech would allow the "mockery" of any religion (I am agnostic), I don't see how any religion can claim protected status allowing them to mock another religion but protect their own - just try having a go at Mormonism. This is hypocrisy which must be exposed for what it is (exploitation of both LDS members and Holocaust databases).

Mormon mockery not only targets a religion in general, but identifies its practitioners by name (and DOB etc). Holocaust victims are particularly vulnerable because the survivors and their descendents made an effort to thoroughly identify the victims, as part of an accounting of the crimes of the Nazis against a specific religious group. The Mormons are exploiting this documentation to make busy-work for its members to bring in the money. This is pretty gut-wrenching.

Do they also target Catholic saints? Assuming the available data is sufficient for temple work. What do the Catholics think of this? If they don't target Catholic saints, why not?

You have done a fine job in pin-pointing the chicanery involved in so-called "temple-work"

but make sure that they understand that during these secret ceremonies the dead Jew is given a NEW NAME.

Appalling.

Fucking dead. I don't care if they were anybody more than holocaust victims or whatever. They are dead.
While they were suffering, herded like cows to their death we couldn't do anything. Now that Mormons play with their names it becomes big deal.
Ironic.

And we could have done much more during the Holocaust years to help the Jews languishing under Nazi siege and facing encroaching extermination.

Read "The Abandonment of the Jews: America and the Holocaust, 1941-1945," by David S. Wyman.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2012 12:34AM by steve benson.

quinlansolo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While they were suffering, herded like cows to their death we couldn't do anything.

Right. We couldn't do anything. I wasn't even alive at the time that was happening.

But now we can do something.

Bringing this issue to the forefront and clarifying the details is one important way to show support and understanding for the position of many of the Jewish people about this Mormon practice and to express our own informed outrage.


> Mormons play with their names it becomes big deal. Ironic.

If it's a big deal to the targeted group then it's a big deal. The opinion of outsiders that it's not a big deal doesn't make it not a big deal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2012 12:32AM by Nightingale.

And they are hurt by that attitude that it's okay to do anything you want to a dead person because they're dead.

The cessation of this practice should be inclusive of any other religion or heritage as well.

American Indians?

I'm trying to think of groups that have enough clout to get the mormon church to omit their names.

Think about it.

The other posters are right. So-called "Baptism for the dead" is is the begining of all temple work (except for the living). you take baptism out and the rest fall with it.

So - what groups do you think would be able to convince the morg to stop using their peeps?

Did the lds church try to help holocaust victims while they were alive? Did they speak out against the practice? Just wondering.

I believe it: "white and delightsome," don'tcha know.

June 18, 1933 - Nazi Party newspaper in Berlin publishes "Juden und Mormonen," which criticizes Germans for belonging to LDS church which has "always been very friendly with Jews."

Dec 9, 1933 - Church Section article "Mormonism in The New Germany," enthusiastically emphasizes parallels "between the LDS Church and some of the ideas and policies of the National Socialists." First, Nazis have introduced "Fast Sunday." Second, "it is a very well known fact that Hitler observes a form of living which Mormons term the 'Word of Wisdom.'" Finally, "due to the importance given to the racial question by Nazis and the almost necessity of proving that one's grandmother was not Jewess," there no longer is resistance against genealogical research by German Mormons who "now have received letters of encouragement complimenting them for their patriotism."

Jan 25, 1936 - CHURCH SECTION photograph of LDS basketball team in Germany giving "Sieg Heil" salute of Nazi Party.

Nov 23, 1938 - First Mormon victim of Nazi Holocaust, Egon Engelbert Weiss in Vienna, Austria (recently annexed to Nazi Germany), writes desperate letters to eight returned missionaries in Utah and Idaho and to First Presidency; "Conditions here are terrible for us Jewish people." He asks if Presidency can make necessary affidavit to enable his family to escape to America, signing letter "your brother in the Gospel."

Jan 27, 1939 - Counselors J. Reuben Clark and David O. McKay write to Jewish non-Mormon who appeals for First Presidency help to escape Nazi regime: "We have so many requests of this sort from various persons, including members of the Church, that we have found it necessary to ask to be excused from making the required guarantee." Letter suggests that he contact American Jewish organizations.

Apr 14, 1939 - An article by West German Mission President Alfred C. Rees entitled "In the Land of the Mormons" appears in a special issue of the Nazi Party organ DER VOLKISCHE BEOBATCHTER. In the Editor's Preface to the article, President Rees is called "the representative of the Church in Germany," who "paints for our readers a portrait of Mormonism today, a church which views the New Germany with sympathy and friendship." Whether President Rees originally wrote the article in German or not, the language of the piece abounds in such loaded terms as Volk and Rasse (race); and a picture of Brigham Young bears the caption, "Fuhrer der historischen Mormonenpioniere." disturbing in hindsight is the way President Rees blatantly parallels Mormonism with Nazism. As Rees warms to his topic, Mormonism begins to sound like a fulfillment of Nazi teachings, providing "the practical realization of the German ideal: 'the common good takes precedence over the individual good.' " Rees concluded by assuring his readers that "Mormons are people who put this healthy doctrine into action."

Apr 24, 1939 - First Counselor J. Reuben Clark requests U.S. department of State to assist immigration of two Mormons: "She and her husband are Aryan natives and nationals of Switzerland." In contrast, Clark privately urges State Department not to help Jewish children to leave Nazi Germany if their parents are trying to send them to United States.

July 1, 1939 - Nazi Gestapo arrests two American LDS missionaries in Czechoslovakia and put them and two other missionaries into prison. Not released until Aug. 23.

June 24, 1941 - Counselor J. Reuben Clark advises Mormon "against your assuming as truth the most of the criticism you see leveled against Hitler and his regime in Germany. I visited Germany twice within the last half-dozen years . . . Hitler is undoubtedly bad from our American point of view, but I think the Germans like him." Because of such statements, federal intelligence agencies investigate Clark in Utah as possible pro-Nazi subversive.

Feb 5, 1942 - LDS teenager, Helmuth Heubner, Rudi Wobbe, and Karl-Heinze Schnibbe is arrested in Hamburg for distributing anti-Nazi leaflets. Ten days later Heubner's branch president (who had once put a sign saying "Jews not allowed to enter" over the chapel door and also allowed broadcasts of Hitler to be part of church services) writes "Excommunicated" on Heubner's records. Seventeen-year-old Heubner, the "ringleader" is beheaded by the Nazis on October 27. His membership is later reinstated and his excommunication is termed a "mistake." Two teenage co-conspirators of Heubner, Rudi Wobbe and Karl-Heinze Schnibbe are both sent to labor camps. They both emigrate to the United States after the war. On January 8, 1985, Heubner's sixtieth birthday, they return to Hamburg where they, are treated as heros by the government of Hamburg. They place a wreath at the site of Heubner's execution. Says Wobbe, "After forty years, to come back to a city that had actually put us away in concentration camps and prisons ... now to be honored and taken around as guests of the city with the members of the government . . . it was surprising-even a bit uncomfortable."

Feb 15, 1942 - In Hamburg, Germany, Branch President Arnold Zollner writes "Ex-communicated" on 17-year-old Helmuth Hubener's membership record. Hubener had been arrested 10 days previously for distributing anti-Nazi propaganda. Zollner had previously posted "JUDEN IST DER EINTRITT VERBOTEN!" (Jews not allowed to enter.) on the door of the branch meeting-house and would bring his radio to church whenever Hitler or Goebbels were scheduled to speak. Heubner is beheaded by the Nazis on October 27, 1942. On November 11, 1946, District President Otto Berndt,and the new mission president, Max Zimmer, write "excommunication done by mistake" on Hubener's membership record. Later, Zimmer's successor, Jean Wunderlich, notifies the Salt Lake leadership of the affair, and on 24 January 24, 1948, the First Presidency orderes a similar notation placed on the membership record.

Feb 5, 1949 - First Counselor J. Reuben Clark recommends anti-semitic PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION to Ernest L. Wilkinson, soon to be president of Brigham Young University. In Dec. 1957 Clark makes similar recommendation to Apostle Ezra Taft Benson, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture. This may be reason Benson organizes secret surveillance of employees (especially Jews) in U.S. Department of Agriculture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2012 09:42PM by steve benson.

My congregation (Jewish) used to rent the stake house for high holidays. I converted to Judaism from the morg but still have friends that are TBM. One day this discussion of necro jewish baptism (nice moniker Steve) came up, and how proud the ward was that they had the Jews in the stake house. I pointed out to him that we rented his church not because of any long lost tribal love,but because it is the only chapel in the state that has absolutely no icons of Christianity,no candles, no stained glass,no bias relief scenes and that the sterile cinderblock and wood pews contribute to our enjoyment.

Steve, thank you. I am of Hungarian Jewish descent. My grandparents' parents, siblings, cousins etc z''l resided in the Carpathian mountains in a small village and were sent to Auschwitz and murdered by the Nazis. Their names are listed at Yad Vashem. They do not want to be baptized, endowed, or renamed by the Mormon church; this would be grossly disrespectful to their memory.

Your work in bringing the necro-dunking practice to light and preventing future episodes is very much appreciated.

I don't post much here anymore but Steve you are doing a fantastic job! I just sent your post about the Nazi-Mormon link to a friend who was totally shocked by that piece of hidden history.

Keep up your educational efforts in the Jewish community. Thank you so much!