Has anyone on here tried acupuncture? How'd it go for you? I'm looking at it for possible back pain relief. Ever since I had kids my lower back kills all the time. I've done all the conventional therapy including massage. I'm thinking maybe the needles will cancel out the epidural pain? All I know is that it's late, I got my kids to sleep early tonight and here I am making this post.

I recently saw a Chinese buddy able to overcome intense pain through the application of a needle into his flesh. Granted, the needle was administered by a nurse, and was filled with super powerful narcotics, but there was no disputing that it stopped the pain.

Personally, I think acupuncture is less ancient, and more illiterate farmers a hundred years ago trying to figure out how the doctor's magic needles worked.

Acupuncture is bullshit, and what you think you know about its ancient Chinese origins is equally bullshit. Do just a minimum amount of your own research on the subject.

Then again, there are a whole pile of people in Utah who believe the Book of Mormon has ancient American origins.

I don't want to put a downer on anyone who is in real pain.
but, I would say, look at the belief underlying the procedure. Do you believe in Chi/Qi?
Do you believe in Life force and meridians in the body?

OTOH do you believe in the placebo effect?

answer these and then you'll have the answer that's right for you

in blinded tests actupuncture never does better than placebo. Sure, it makes you feel good but so do a lot of "treatments" that don't have any clinical effect.

It's very difficult to do a double blind study.

I had acupuncture for about 9 months a few years ago and I found it to be beneficial (and I was somewhat skeptical about the process). I went for sinus trouble and a stiff & sore upper back. If I could have afforded it, I would have continued to see the acupuncturist.

It can't hurt to try it but I'd give it a month or two of weekly visits to assess whether you see improvement. Have you tried yoga? My best friend did something (don't recall exactly) to her back in an aerobics class about 20 yrs ago. She was in constant pain and could only sit for short periods. Linda found chiropractic adjustments helpful but long-term, she said she got the most relief from yoga. It took a few years but she no longer has that back pain.

Good luck, back pain bites.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2012 08:33AM by janebond462.

My German Shepherd Dog, Abby, was having a lot of back pain last year. In the fall I started taking her to a holistic vet who performed acupuncture and spinal adjustment.

I was trying to keep Abby on her feet, at least over the winter. She was over 12 years old, and she hated help.

She went for 3-4 treatments and I noticed a big difference. I would have continued, but she developed Vestibular Disorder at the end of October, and could not recover, so I had her put to sleep in November.

If it can help an old dog, who has no preconceived notions, and does not know what is being done nor any knowledge or Chi or whatever, it can help you.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

Susan

I had the exact same experience. I had an old dog who had a degenerating cervical disk that was about to blow. She had a heart murmur and probably wouldn't have survived surgery to fix it. The vet gave us corticosteroids for inflammation and pain killers for pain. Before the dog ever got a single dose of any of those meds, the vet gave her acupuncture (which I dubbed "dog-you-puncture" LOL).

She had to be carried into the vet. She was stiff and whining from the pain. Wouldn't walk, run, sit, eat, drink, poo, or pee. Half an hour later, after the dog-you-puncture treatment, her tail was wagging and she was chasing squirrels in the backyard. Weeks or months later, she'd jump off the couch or something and hurt herself again. Back to the vet for more dog-you-puncture, then I'd start the meds again.

It was so effective -- even though I believe most of this New Age woo-woo treatment is BS -- that, when I had pain in my wrist (from carpal tunnel or arthritis, still not sure which it is), I sought an acupuncturist as well (after my regular MD was found to be useless). I thought, well, if it can help the dog who has no expectations of placebo effect at all (she had no idea what was up with needles in her paws and ears, she just liked the treats the vet was feeding her), maybe it can help me. I didn't actually think it would.

After several treatments, I was nearly pain-free. I can't explain it; I think the concept of Chi is pretty much BS also. The only thing I can think of is stimulating nerve endings that are on the same pathway as the source of pain... maybe that fires up your endorphins which makes you feel better. Acupuncture is expensive, so if Advil isn't working, it's one alternative. But I'd take Western meds first.

I should say this: the needles don't hurt. They are so tiny and fine, you don't even feel them. There is also something to be said for the healing effect of just lying still and breathing. Maybe the needles help you focus your mind and it is all mind over matter. I know there is no medical basis for acupuncture to work, and if the result is psychosomatic, does it matter if it gives you pain relief?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2012 10:13AM by dogzilla.

Don't you all just love these special testimonies about the power of acupuncture? It can even heal your dog! I bet it will work on hamsters, too!!!

I practise Acupuncture in the UK, though this is predominantly for Sports Injuries. If you have tried all conventional methods then giving acupuncture a go will not do any harm. Usually if you are not responding to treatment after 4 treatments then it is not going to work for you. Usually I would recommend that treatment is carried out weekly, more often is pain is extremely acute. Hope this helps.

Plodder

Worked for me.

Severe lower back pain, sciatica, nerves weren't working in my foot (drop foot). Bulging disc per MRI. It was hell. Was scheduled for surgery.

Tried acupuncture as a last resort. Worked quickly - symptoms subsided a lot. Not perfect, but livable.

It has worked well for others I know too. And for some, it hasn't.

Give it a shot - what have you got to lose?

Lets all look up the logical fallacy "Appeal to anecdotal evidence" shall we?

A whole pile of personal subjective stories does not change reality. I could find a bunch of people to tell me that the LDS church is working just fine for them too. I dare say that everyone on this board would recognize how useless personal antecdotes are while discussing that topic. Why should this be any different?

Here are the facts when acupuncture is tested.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/category/acupuncture/

I couldn't care less whether you can explain it with current science.

and as far as the "what could it hurt" comment.

http://whatstheharm.net/acupuncture.html

A lot of those were stories of "my friend thought acupuncture could cure AIDS/cancer/the flu/world poverty." One person said the needles went through someone's chest wall. Those needles are too tiny and thin (and easily breakable) there is no possible way they could get through the breastplate to puncture someone's heart.

I'd say those "what is the harm" stories are just as anecdotal as these ones right here.

Any acupuncturist who claims they can cure cancer and you should eschew Western medicine is a shyster and a con artist. But if an acupuncturist says, "Well, we can TRY this and it MIGHT make things better," then that is a more accurate statement of what your expectations should be.

There are no magic pills or procedures.

Note: I also have asthma and was in there for my wrist pain and mentioned I was struggling with trying to fight off an asthma attack. She added a couple extra needles because she said she could help with the asthma too. I was better -- but just slightly -- from acupuncture, but that was NO substitute for my albuterol inhaler. It just helped me just enough so I could get to the pharmacy for real meds without hacking up a lung. She didn't "cure" my asthma or my arthritis. She just eased the worst of those for a short time.

All I'm saying is to apply the same critical thinking skills you've applied to LDS claims to accupuncture's claims and see if it holds up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2012 10:39AM by peregrine.

I couldn't agree more. On the Skeptic's Dictionary, they said this:

"It's clear from the testimonial and scientific evidence that acupuncture benefits some people some of the time for some conditions, particularly for the relief of pain. It's also clear that acupuncture doesn't benefit anyone for some conditions, even though there are published studies that conclude otherwise. The evidence tells me that it is criminal to treat infertility with acupuncture, for example."

I think that's a reasonable assessment.
Cite: http://skepdic.com/acupuncture.html

I have treated thousands of patients over the years with acupuncture. I use "formula" acupuncture, meaning that there is a protocol of certain acu-points for certain symtoms, and not chi balancing acupuncture, which diagnosis will vary from practioner to practitioner-- so not a standard treatment protocol.

Some positive results are placebo, in fact in all medical treatments there are some placebo involved.

There are a few studies using sham acupuncture points with real ones, and they show the actual points work with better results. Also dogs and babies don't respond to placebo.

I wish I had more time now to explain more, but for now you can view this site:

http://advancedacupunctureny.com/conditions-treated/arthritis/

You don't understand the placebo effect if you think babies and animals don't respond to it.

Anonandon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't understand the placebo effect if you
> think babies and animals don't respond to it.

Why don't you tell us how much money you made doing this ?

Acupuncturist, It's obvious from your response that you haven't read my link. You just responded like a TBM and didn't evaluate your own beliefs before responding. That lack of critical thinking is precisely what I was criticizing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2012 12:05PM by peregrine.

There's a couple of good studies that show it's only a placebo. The CDC when it supported acupuncture ignored these studies. Quackwatch.com is a good source for such dubious treatments. If you look into the the "science" it's really a bunch of hocus pocus.

I have had several thousand of patients respond well to acupuncture over the years when no other treatment they sought worked. I was a "last resort" in most cases, and the patient got better.

So if it is placebo or not, the patient doesn't care. They are better. I'm not saying I believe it is placebo in every case, but it doesn't matter. The skeptical patient responds just as well as the believing one.

To me, I don't care either. I try and do the best job and never keep a patient coming back when they don't respond, and I try and refer them to the proper physician when needed. I use the most acurate acupuncture points I can. If their healing is placebo or not, who cares? It works for them. Call it what you want. If all the scientific methods of prescribing scientific chemicals had worked they wouldn't have come to me. The patient got better with placebo, but they are better.

OOOooo.... I can't resist a chance to post a funny video that's on topic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3DVN7XMiQk

Quackery is quackery.

Ooo, ooo... then what about chiroquackery?

ron

“Several thousand” subjective, non-blinded anecdotes still do not add up to data.

I could find "several thousand" people who got better after a PH blessing. Would you accept that as proof that PH blessings work?

I am not saying numbers of successes prove there is not any placebo. I'm saying it doesn't matter.

I can hear someone saying, "I would go to an acupuncturist but if I got better it would be placebo, so I won't go". Makes total sense?

I think narrowmindedness is a tbm trait too.

your debilitating hip pain is a side effect of Zocor.
So they prescribe you a very strong NSAID that subsequently gets pulled from the market for causing heart attacks.
MD quackery = treating the side effect of one bad drug by prescribing another bad drug.
People must learn to trust their own experiences and take control of their own health. When the MD doesn't believe you, get a new doctor.

"People must learn to trust their own experiences.."


That's what often keeps people in Mormonism.

The whole purpose of the scientific method is to remove the subjective bias due to your "own experience".

MD's can be quacks too.
YOu need to stop relating everything to religion.
You are more closed-minded than they are.

If I had not trusted my own experiences and taken control of my own health, I would currently be crippled by hip pain and possibly dead of a heart attack.
Try to stay on topic.

My husband's experience with acupuncture and severe back pain was that it cost us a butt load of money and gave no relief.

I've been trying to get him to do yoga for years. When he finally agreed, it was THE ONLY THING that helped long term.

My advice is to find a yoga instructor who has experience with back issues, and with any luck suffered from back pain themselves, to do a private session to learn a handful of poses.

My husband does a series of gentle poses on his back. Takes him 10-15 minutes a day and it works.

demanding to see the double-blind scientific studies on Yoga.

It worked for me three times and I am a virulent skeptic.

1) SHOULDER INJURY - I tore something in my shoulder throwing something heavy into the back of a pickup truck. Hurt at the time--the next day I was in agony, dancing like a little girl who had to go potty. Only I was crying. Went to the doctor, he gave me pain meds --said nothing. The pain meds made me feel sleepy while I was in agony. A friend saw me crying and took me to her acupuncturist in Salt Lake. I walked out pain free. They put hot rocks on my shoulder and pulled the blood from inside the joint. They told me the pressure from the bleeding from the damage was creating more damage in the joint. They created three or four huge disk-shaped bruises on my back on that side. They also inserted the needles to increase circulation and gave me some pills/herbs to increase circulation.

2) GROIN INJURY - I was hiking and slid down some shale on one leg, flailing wildly to regain balance and tore something in the groin. Blood began pooling in the nether regions and boy did that burn. Went to the doctor here in California at Kaiser. She didn't even look at the area, just gave me anti-inflammatory and said to put ice on it. I went to the Acupuncture College here in Oakland and got to hear the acupuncturist training an intern on my case. He said, "listen to the patient. Have her point to the spot that hurts the most, then the next sorest spot..." They put the tiny needle in my leg where the muscle was damaged and in some other places. I received pills to increase circulation and instructions to move slowly and carefully for the next couple of weeks and get lots of sleep, drink lots of water, etc. This was amazing to me--I walked out, albeit slowly, with tingling but free of the burning sensation--and immensely relieved.

3) FINGER INJURY - This should actually be number one. I had an infection and a puffed up finger. Again, doctor prescribed anti-inflammatory and still had a lot of pain. The acupuncturist inserted the little needle into the first joint of the finger and drained off blood. it stopped hurting immediately.

I really don't care to learn about chi or philosophy or any of that. I neither expected nor did not expect it to work. I would have just as easily applied dirt and spit like Jesus did. All I can say is, it worked for me.

Anagrammy

Testimonials are not science and are usually a sign of quackery.