But I do get so tired of this kind of junk.

My 9 yr old was with me, and someone asked the riddle "How many animals did Moses take on the ark?"

Haha - but my son says "Who? What's an ark?"

A woman turned to me and asked, "He doesn't know about Noah's ark?"

I said, "No, I didn't see any reason to expose him to that. I haven't taught him about Ted Bundy either. I don't think that's appropriate for someone his age."

I bite my tongue so often, but I do get tired of it. How is teaching a child about ancient stories of mass murder a good thing to do? And how is it any of their business?

And now they don't like me anymore. Oh dear, what shall I do??

But I'm just talkin' 'bout Serena! ... (we can dig it).

Go on with your bad self!

Timothy

YOU GO GIRL!!!

I think I just fell in love...

:-)

"Look at me.
You know what you see?
You see a bad mutha"

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2ZY2loo74

Wait? How hasn't he learned about the ark yet? Indian Jones and Raiders of the Lost Ark is an important part of our national culture. He should have at least seen an edited version of the movie by now. I mean, you don't want him growing up not understanding that the Nazis were the bad guys.

Yes, he's seen the first Indiana Jones movie, and he likes the action sequences, but doesn't understand a lot of it. The religious references went over his head, and I'd say he just discounted it - "come on, come on, I want to see the snakes again! More truck chases!"

Yes, he knows that the Nazis were the "bad guys" because they hurt a lot of people. He's always been young for his age, and has quite enough to deal with, being also small for his age, and struggling with ADD. Why in hell should I fill his head with ancient legends of mass murder? Real history is enough, and for a little 9-yr-old, he's got a good grasp of the more relevant bits of history - Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln, what happened to the native Americans and their place and influence in our society - we used to live on an indian reservation - The presidents, usual 4th grade stuff.

I was actually agreeing with you. Personally, I think I am going to start my son off with ancient Greek and nordic myths, PG versions though, when he is old enough to learn. The lesson will be that people used to believe this silly stuff. Then when he gets older, we'll discuss bible myths from a cultural aspect. "This is what many of your friends and neighbors believe, but it is just a form of ancient mythology that survived into modern times."

Personally, I always thought the bible was kind of like the go-bot version of much cooler Greek stuff.

LMAO....wrong ark, FBCD......

Edit:
I just went back and it registered that it's a trick question.
Do Angels of Death that melt faces count as animals?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 02:33PM by Itzpapalotl.

how many animals DID ole Noah get in there? and who cleaned up the pee and poop? and all the different feed they would need? i mean dont lions and tigers and other predators eat meat??? so where did that come from? and what did they do about the crocs and such?
just askin??!!

None.

MOSES (go back & re-read the original riddle) didn't do the animals-in-the-ark thing. He did the ark-of-the-covenant thing.

p.s.: I don't know the answer to YOUR question either. But maybe Joe Smith can B.S. one up for you.

:-)

God cleaned up the pee and poop and put up magical force fields so the predators couldn't get the other animals. And God provided all the different foods. Uh duh. Don't think about it and it can make perfect sense.

This is apparently fine-tuned comedy for 4th graders, along with knock knock jokes.

Just supposing Noah did have an ark - can you imagine the smell? There weren't enough people (8) on that ark, to keep up with all the animal care chores or feeding, watering, hosing out the urine and feces (wait, they didn't have hoses). And can you imagine how long it must have taken to round up 2 of every species, and the loading them all into their appropriate areas so they don't eat each other? I wonder how they managed to capture the spiders, and contain them? It must have taken a heck of a long time to gather all the food for the animals, extra animals too for the carnivores, and how did they keep the food from rotting? They were on that ark a long, long time, way more than 40 days - that's just how long it rained.

In addition, they had gather and load up supplies for themselves, which was no small task. Living on a big wooden boat for so long, the noise, filth, cramped quarters.

Nope, no way.

Oh lard - I just Googled "how long was noah on the ark?" - 370 days. Imagine the torturous mental gymnastics one would have to go though to believe this really happened! And Noah was 600 years old at the time. Riiiiiiight. (Bill Cosby's voice in my mind)

I kid you not. And they consider themselves a "scientific" organization, too, funnily enough.

Playing up Noah's Ark as a mass murder incident at the PTA!

That was brilliant. I am in awe.

This reminds me of my idea for when the Creationist Museum was trying to get funding for their "life sized" build of Noah's Arc. I thought we should have given the money, under the condition that they must find a way to fit two life sized replica's of every land animal that has lived in the past five thousand years, into their arc. Seven, for all the clean animals. Then they must also find a way to store all the grains and seeds that the bible said Noah took with him too. Also, they wouldn't be able to cheat, and take only two squirrels. They would need to take every subspecies of animal as well, including those found on the other continents.

If they were able to do all of this, we would let them keep the money. If not, they would be forced to repay all of it, plus interest.

Why are they bringing up a Bible story at a public school function in the first place?

I just get so pissed off sometimes at the blatant, in-your-face, self-righteous stupidity sometimes that I forget myself. Damn. You know that those two women did not keep this to themselves. I might as well not show up at the next meeting, because not only will no one give me the time of day, but any suggestions I make, anything I say, will be met with stoney silence or outright aggression.

Sigh.

My husband, the school's Cub Master, might eventually hear about my lapse, and he won't be thrilled. He's so much better about playing nicey-nice with obnoxious people, but men can get away with this kind of stuff easier. Too, he doesn't know much of anything in the Bible (how? I don't know - and yet he considers himself nominally a Christian - but couldn't answer any of the simplest biblical trivia questions to save his life.)

Sigh again. Grrrr.

Noah's ark is part of our culture. They even have stuffed Noah's ark for babies. I think your son should know the myths that form the Judeo-Christian culture we live in. You can frame this in a positive way.

It's easy to explain that in times past when there was a natural disaster like a flood, people wanted explanations. They saw thunder and lightening and thought a powerful man in the sky was angry and since the flood water was destructive, they viewed the deluge as punishment. Many different cultures have their ideas about who this god in the sky is. This was before people understood the science behind storms.

Some people still believe that a punishing god is necessary for people to be good. We believe that people are naturally good and can learn to cooperate with each other and be even better.

Others people believe the guy in the sky chose favorites and some humans are his pets. Noah was one of his pets and the story says that god saved him and his family from a flood by telling them ahead of time to build a boat.

We respect their right to believe that and we don't make fun of it. We expect our beliefs to be respected as well and that's the idea behind America and religious freedom.

Kids get that.



Anagrammy

+1. Bible stories, Greek myths etc are part of our culture and are something educated people know about.I don't believe the story either, but if I had a child, I would think he should be familiar with basic Bible stories. I would present them as myth, not fact though.There are books of children's Bible stories which dowplay the violence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 02:53PM by bona dea.

That, right there, is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

It only takes something that was mindlessly insane in the first place and turns it into namby-pamby mindlessly insane pap, filling generations of western childrens' heads with the mistaken notion that the Bible is the font of all goodness, which it most certainly is not.

The Bible is the basis for much of Western art, music and literature. Without some knowledge of it and other myths, you simply are not an educated person. You can teach it in an age approriate way and you certainly don't have to teach it as fact or as an example of morality, but the fact is that educated people are familiar with basic Bible stories. I stand by what I said and I am not a believer. I am a teacher and I am appalled at the things todsy's kids do not know.This is just the beginning.Don't get me started on their ignorance of math, history, science, curent events etc.

There is no reason to mis-guide him as a child.

As a teacher I would have thought you would be well aware how much damage is caused by educating children with lies. It takes a lot more effort to convince them of the truth after they've become convinced of a lie.

OMG, I have said twice I consider it a myth and I certainly would never teach it in school as the truth, Do you read?

Those stories are no more worth repeating -- even in adult company -- than mythologizing the atrocities of Hitler and making a holy book out of THAT would be.

Yes, I read. And the more I read of YOUR posts the more convinced I am that you can not finish a linear thought to its logical conclusion. You must have amazing fun getting lost with that.

That is your opinion. I could not disagree more.

Sanitize it all you want, but it's still a horrible story.

At my parent's church, years ago, the associate minister told a children's sermon about Abraham thinking God wanted him to murder his son. Jesus F. Christ! Way to go, lady! She didn't last long at that church.

I tend to bite my tongue and fume...

Christ, he's only nine. Eventually he'll hear about Narcissus too, and Leda and the Swan, Freya, Thor, Buddha, all that stuff. He'll pick that stuff up eventually. There are people who refuse to expose their children to all kinds of things until they feel they're old enough to handle it.

I remember being about 8 when I came home from Sunday school and talked to my parents about what I'd learned about Noah's ark. "Why did God kill all those people, even the babies?" It's one of my earliest memories of Sunday School.

I don't need to make any excuses for legends he is and is not aware of. He's not unnecessarily sheltered, but there's plenty of time to learn.

He doesn't know what a Communist is yet either. He does know about Jesus and that he wanted people to be good to each other. I have not shared my doubt with him regarding the absolute veracity of the NT. That's not necessary.

Buddhism is also part of his biological heritage. He knows a little about him - he's seen the sculpture in his gma's apartment. Did you teach your kids about Buddha?

Fetch off, he's my child, not yours, you judgmental biddies. Go knit a tea cozy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 02:57PM by serena.

He's seen "Fiddler on the Roof" and we've discussed the Jewish pogroms. He doesn't understand what's the big deal about gay people - smart kid. He knows he was born by cesarian and why, and that I had trouble getting and keeping him, that he's very much appreciated and loved, he knows what a uterus is, basics of menstruation, what sperm is, that it joins with a woman's egg to make a baby - but draws the line at wanting to hear just how that happens; I answer questions, but I don't push it.

Strange myths are just not that important right now. Learning to get along with other people, struggling along in school, having fun, racing on the ski team, pretending he's Harry Potter, building all kinds of stuff in the garage - that's his world right now.

I'm proud of who he is, and I think we're pretty good parents.

serena,

It seems to me the way the woman ask the question, Moses and the Ark, she is what my children use to call a smartass-dumbbutt. When an adult attempts to get their jollys by outsmarting a small child, that shows what kind of (small)person you are dealing with.

I am sure that you setting her straight will come back to bite you in the butt. Small people are usually vindictive. You can let her get her jab back or you can manipulate her. Why not buy a Noah and the Ark "picture book" and put it in your purse. Show it to her at the next meeting and tell her in front of everyone how you thought about what she said and decided that your child needed to learn these Bible stories. You don't have to tell her that you want him to learn just how foolish they are. Let her have her glory...she is probably such an infantile that she will believe you.

Look at it this way. She deserves to be manipulated and you and your family deserve not to have her sticking poison pins into your life.

Placating drama queens and gossips serves no purpose.

I should think serena has bigger fish to fry.

Timothy

BTW, Noah had an Ark. Moses gave the 10 Commandments.

Don't you have some doll-collecting or cross-stitch to do?

Serena, I am not a religious person. I think these are myths and do not believe any of them. I disagree with your pride on your son's ignorance of the Bible, but as you said, he is your son. You need to get over it. People don't agree. You told a story and I and another poster didn't entirely agree with you. Big deal. We expressed our views politley which is more than I can say for you. Have a nice life.

... which is something you need to get over.

Most religious types are just as "ignorant" about the bible.

What's the big deal?

Timothy

Serena,

Sorry if this offends you - I'm very impressed with what you have to say on this forum - but I'm passing something along that I noticed from your series of posts in this thread:

So based on your posts you are regretting the consequences of what you said. It was a great zing, but probably not worth the price you will pay for it.

It is also apparent from you response to other posts here that you are EXTREMELY defensive if anyone questions how good of a mother you are. (Which, reading between the lines, is the same thing that set you off in the PTA group.)

So you may want to be aware in the future that any time someone directly or indirectly criticizes you as a mother that you are likely to have a very strong response and you need to be very on guard as to how you respond.