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Posted by: Misfit ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 10:18AM

The only reason the temple is Satan worship doesn't have anything to do with the apron. It has to do with the fact that Satan tells you that if you don't obey EVERY covenant in the temple, then you are under HIS power.
You covenant to give everything you have to the church when you are inside the temple.
The church, in reality, does not tell you outside of the temple to give them everything you own. They only ask for 10%. If you only pay tithing and don't live the Law of Consecration or the Law of Sacrifice, you are automatically in Satan's power.

On top of that, you are put under oath to obey the Law of the Gospel, "as contained in the scriptures." No further detail is given as to what obligation that oath entails. The undefined nature of this oath means that it would be impossible to obey.

So the temple is about putting its members under Satan's power.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 10:24AM

unsettling about it and NOTHING like I anticipated it would be--definitely not anything to do with the church I felt I was raised in.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 10:43AM

It was truly creepy - and Michael Ballam did it the best. My roommate in the MTC said she went to a fireside with him prior to her mission. Apparently, he prayed to know what Satan was like and was given a glimpse into his kingdom. I don't know if it was a bad dream or if Ballam was claiming a vision or what. But he claimed it was terrifying and I certainly think he was the scarier Satan.

The other guy looked too much like some of the dopes I dated at BYU for me to take seriously.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2012 10:43AM by CA girl.

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Posted by: rutabaga ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 10:43AM

Personally, I not quite ready to call the endowment Satan worship, but he does play an interesting role.

Stipulating that JS developed the Nauvoo Endowment to legitimize/sanctify his predilection for the ladies, he needed a way to enforce the secrecy. Enter the Masonic elements of the endowment with the slashing and the cutting.

What better way to strike fear into a bunch of religious zealots than to have Satan deliver the threats resulting from noncompliance?

A side note from another poster: Adam approaches Father in the true order of prayer. Lucifer answers “I hear you”. Adam doesn’t say “Oh hey Lucifer, I wasn’t talking to you.” Adam doesn’t recognize Lucifer! We can receive answers to prayer, but we don’t know if it comes from Father or Lucifer.

Couple that with the current Gospel Principles book. We’ll get an answer to prayer. But the answer will be Yes, No, or not right now. So 2 out of 3 times the answer to prayer is no, and the third time could be Lucifer answering.

Was Joseph bright enough to dream that up and intentionally include it in the endowment or was it an accident? I don’t know.

I think the Nauvoo endowment was invented to legitimize polygamy, codified in section 132 and is only practiced today because to remove it would be impossible.

Joseph needed an enforcer to ensure secrecy and Satan was his guy.

Just my opinion.

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Posted by: Misfit ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 11:21AM

I wouldn't call the temple satan worship either. But the idea that the church is putting its members under Satan's power helps to explain why Utah has the highest rate of depression in the nation. Temple-endowed members never feel good enough. The church sets it up so that its impossible to live up to the promises made in the temple.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 03:05PM

Satan is just as made up as God, so why would that affect depression rates in the slightest?

If we were put under Dumbledore's power, would that make depression rates change as well?

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 05:02PM

You are 100 percent correct. However, if you believe in Satan - if you don't realize he has as much power as Dumbledore, you can be depressed. I mean if you truly believed that your little mistakes made you one of Satan's minions, that would be a pretty depressing thought.

So, Satan has no real power but belief has a LOT of power. That's why Mormonism is so dangerous - because they mess with peoples' minds and perceptions.

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Posted by: goldenrule ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 06:19PM

CA girl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are 100 percent correct. However, if you
> believe in Satan - if you don't realize he has as
> much power as Dumbledore, you can be depressed. I
> mean if you truly believed that your little
> mistakes made you one of Satan's minions, that
> would be a pretty depressing thought.
>
> So, Satan has no real power but belief has a LOT
> of power. That's why Mormonism is so dangerous -
> because they mess with peoples' minds and
> perceptions.

AMEN

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 22, 2012 10:17AM


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Posted by: Outcast ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 11:28AM

My personal God-myth is that God wants the same things I want for my children - grow up healthy, be prosperous/fruitful, enjoy everything life on this planet has to offer.

Not to be subservient to bizarre, nonsensical rituals and live in a state of fear. IMO, the temple covenants are akin to being married to an abusive spouse - one who takes and never gives back, treats you like dirt, punishes you when you don't do as he says...is that what life as a Mormon should be?? I don't think so.

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: January 22, 2012 10:03AM


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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 01:40PM

In fact, he is kicked out.

All of the temple ritual can be best understood, in my view as representative of the archetypes as described by Jung. He claimed they are innate and universal. It's all symbolic.
Satan is the Devil archetype.
We have the archetype of the father, the mother, the child, etc. all represented in the temple rituals.

Because the temple rituals are not explained either in the temple or in any other way, participants are left to try to make sense of them on their own. The leaders don't give any answers because there are none. It's all about symbols, and archetypes set in a religious setting much of which has a Christian and Masonic background as that was what the people knew in those times.

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Posted by: luckychucky ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 07:53PM

I agree with this.

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Posted by: imaworkinonit ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 09:47PM

No Satan worship, and no deeper understanding you can gain each time you go.

It's just the creation story followed by ritual, promises, and secret words/handshakes.

All the TBM talk about the blessings of the temple, and gaining knowledge is all part of the manipulation to get people to promise EVERYTHING to the church and then feel good about it later. The temple is about controlling members and convincing them that they can NEVER leave or disobey without severe consequences.

THAT's the evil in the temple.

Participants promise EVERYTHING, and they get nothing of value in return except handshakes and a threat that if they don't do everything right they'll be in Satan's power.


Satan plays a creepy role in the temple movie, but Mormons don't worship Satan.

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Posted by: enoughenoch19 ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 10:24PM

If you are told to follow the Law of the Gospel, but that law is not made clear (in other words how does following it look in everyday life) or you are under Satan's power, then nearly everyone who goes to the temple must supposedly be under Satan's power.
It's like when your boss gives you an order to "go over in the corner and pick up some things but be careful you don't pick up some of the things." So you ask which things you should not pick up, but the boss has walked away and you have no answer. Unless you avoid the corner entirely, you will most likely pick up one of the things that were supposed to be avoided. Talk about hopeless and damned if you do/don't.

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Posted by: zimmy ( )
Date: January 20, 2012 11:55PM

if you were paying attention you would have noticed that when satan shows up the second time in the temple he has changed clothes, this is why adam does not know who he is when he sees him. satan takes on different appearances to make different approaches but the end game is still the same. mormons do not worship satan. many of them worship the Savior, but this too is not correct. we worship the Father and Him alone. this is what the the Savior told satan when he was being tempted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2012 11:57PM by zimmy.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 01:09PM

zimmy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Those are accurate points.
Most LDS members probably never go to the temple, and would never have any reason to be familiar with the temple ceremonies anyhow.

I don't know why people want to make the devil/lucifer/satan (clearly symbolic of temptation/evil/wrong/etc.) a figure of worship in the LDS Church when he is a figure of the opposite of good and righteousness and the tempter in the Bible. These are very old conflicts -- good vs evil.

Do people do it out of lack of information or on purpose to denigrate someone's religion? People tend to be gullible so they will believe anything rather than check it out for themselves.

Much of Mormonism is based on the scriptures in the Bible which is one of their four books of scripture, which, in many cases are borrowed from older mythology, stories, and events.

None of this is literal, of course. It's all symbolic.
I'd highly suggest a little research into Carl Jung's use of archetypes and how they function in religion as well as everywhere in our lives.

My view is to: get informed. Ignore bias and tone, and get to the validated factual information, remain neutral until an informed decision can be made.

Rituals are part of religious worship. They are ancient. They cover in the minimum: traditions around birth, coming of age, marriage and death.

Thousands of people perform religious rituals in their worship every day in the world. They are, for the most part, important elements of the believers World View.

In my view, religious rituals/worship are fascinating and interesting and not something I place a judgment on as they are about other people's long standing traditions. Much of the time they are accompanied with colorful costuming, music, and decor.
The LDS Church does some of the same thing. They are most often seen as weird, strange, odd to the outsider, but to the believer, they are part of their heritage, and very important.

I don't believe in any of them, but I can appreciate how they are important to other people, as some were important to me and some are the foundation for how my life has evolved.

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Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 07:47PM

I think they do it to denigrate the mormon myth. I presume its because the mormon myth has been very destructive in many people's lives. Not all myths are equally destructive. If you're looking for a productive myth, the mormon myth is not it. It hurts many people, destroys many individuals. Some people slide out easily. Others not so. Many don't even know how to begin getting out. There is no archetype in the mormon myth representing the destruction that the mormon institution inflicts on so many lives, except, perhaps, lucifer. So, in that regard Satan does play an important role in the temple and represents that particular archetype. The mormon myth is evil and delusional. It perpetuates ignorance and enslavement. The mormon myth crushes the thinking individual and condemns the speaking thinker.

The mormon myth is an institutional archetype within the various institutional archetypes in the world. And it's the archetype that represents one of the lower forms of mankind. It has done little good and much harm. As myths go, it fails to represent man's inner thoughts, the mysteries of life, or the beauty of life. For those who seek myths to find meaning, it fails.

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: January 22, 2012 02:31AM

The problem with the temple ritual is you have nowhere to go to ask questions so you can get informed. You have no place to turn to validate information. You cannot ignore bias and tone unless you are willing to risk your eternal salvation.

That is the major flaw of the temple. The rules are don't ask, don't tell, and wallow in pain worry and sorrow. It's your fault, there is something wrong with you.

If you ask anything about the temple ceremony outside of the temple you will get shushed and not answered. You will be made to feel like there is something wrong with you for even asking.
If you wait until you are in the temple, you will find that either everyone is in too big a hurry to get you out of the door, or they have no idea what the answer to you question may be. They sweep it under the rug an expect you to do the same. If you persist, you will be asked to leave the temple, the church or both.
If this hasn't been your experience, you are an anomaly, or related to someone that they perceive as important.

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Posted by: sam ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 02:50PM

I never thought it was satan worshipping. But, it always felt weird and uncomfortable. It was also boring and a waste of time. It always felt controlling to me--everyone dressed in the same silly costumes.

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Posted by: enoughenoch19 ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 03:02PM

for rutabaga - YOU HAVE MADE SOME GREAT POINTS! - What better way to strike fear into a bunch of religious zealots than to have Satan deliver the threats resulting from noncompliance? - I think it is absolutely disgusting to promote fear in anyone in this way b/c the folks who are afraid DO BELIEVE in Satan.....horrible!

A side note from another poster: Adam approaches Father in the true order of prayer. Lucifer answers “I hear you”. Adam doesn’t say “Oh hey Lucifer, I wasn’t talking to you.” Adam doesn’t recognize Lucifer! We can receive answers to prayer, but we don’t know if it comes from Father or Lucifer.
I did not know about this one...
again, horrible for believers in Satan.

Was Joseph bright enough to dream that up and intentionally include it in the endowment or was it an accident? I don’t know.
JS was smart! He is probably the greatest conman in history (or at least in modern history). Smart doesn't mean good. He was a master manipulator. THe fact that we are posting about him now shows how manipulative he was. I don't believe anything in the endowments was accidental, I think it was all about manipulating people.
He and BY were NOT counting on modern science including space travel and the Hubble (should have located Kobol by now if it was there and there were no six ft tall quakers on the moon).

I don't think ANY seriously religious edifice promoting Jesus and God should have anything even remotly resembling Satan within its walls at any time. Why invite the so called enemy in? That alone is enough for me to know that there is something creepy about all of it. It leads to things like Adam praying to Satan.......just because Satan was there. He could never have fooled Adam if he wasn't there in the first place.

Just an aside - Only in opera and the temple play/movie can people change clothes and not be recognized! Ha!

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Posted by: omreven ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 06:24PM

As an outsider, obeying Lucifer to cover up is rather creepy. Also disconcerting is the fact that Adam can't tell the difference between Lucifer and "Heavenly Father" when Mormons put so much emphasis on feelings from prayer. Enter the profits, I guess, since they have a direct link to God, you can rely on them...except he was speaking as a man that time and men have flaws. The upside down pentagrams on some of the temples make me feel a little squicky, which is silly, I know. While I know upside down pentagrams are not necessarily symbols of devil worship, it's interesting to note that the pentagram (upside down, no less) was accepted in symbolism while the cross, a symbol of Christianity, was rejected.

I don't believe Mormons worship Satan at all, but I can certainly see where these notions come from.

Then enoughenoch19 goes and brings up another good point I never thought of, bringing Satan within the walls of the Holy temple.

There are quite a few problems with the symbolism here, not even touching on the fear evoked in the LDS faithful.

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Posted by: A ANON ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 07:28PM

I always thought that it was crazy that the church's orders to its members came with Satan's full endorsement! He's even the church's enthusiastic enforcer of the rules!

...Huh?

You would think that Satan would tell everyone: "DON'T obey the Mormon Church!"

But -- instead -- he says just the OPPOSITE!

It gets even worse when you remember that Satan is "The Father of ALL Lies!




(But then, Mormons DON'T think, they just obey...They just bow their heads and say: "Yes".)

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Posted by: Misfit ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 08:52PM

EVE: Do you not remember that Father commanded us to multiply and
replenish the earth? I have partaken of this fruit and by so doing shall
be cast out, and you will be left a lone man in the garden of Eden.

ADAM: Eve, I see that this must be. I will partake that man may be.

(Adam takes a bite, and Lucifer walks to their side with a look of
approval.)

LUCIFER: That is right.[ I always used to wonder, if Lucifer is the father of all lies, is he lying right here? Did they really need to both eat the fruit so that we could exist?]

I also used to wonder why Lucifer was the only interesting character in the movie. He was the only one that bothered to do any acting.

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Posted by: enoughenoch19 ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 10:11PM

I believe now that TSCC IS the LARGEST SATANIC religion to ever exist. Whether it is Satan worship or Satan sanctioned hardly matters.......belief in Satan gives TSCC a ton of power.

What A ANON said erased my last thread of doubt about this...in case you forgot what A ANON said, here it is:
I always thought that it was crazy that the church's orders to its members came with Satan's full endorsement! He's even the church's enthusiastic enforcer of the rules!
You would think that Satan would tell everyone: "DON'T obey the Mormon Church!"
But -- instead -- he says just the OPPOSITE!
It gets even worse when you remember that Satan is "The Father of ALL Lies!

This should scare the (*%^*(&*^ our of all TBMs enough to leave and get their names removed. Think about all of this in the light of possibly have Romney in office......OMG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2012 10:42PM by enoughenoch19.

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Posted by: Alice ( )
Date: January 21, 2012 11:53PM

I thought I was the only one, until reading this thread! Naturally, I kept quiet about this.

On my very first viewing of that movie, Satan's comments confused me, for the very reasons written on this thread! Shouldn't God worshippers do the opposite of what Satan told us to do?

But even before I went through the temple, I went to a temple dedication, with my VIP GA family. At one point, during the dedicatory prayer, for no reason at all (I was a mellow and cooperative Mormon girl) I felt the presence of Satan. It was like the most intense hatred I had ever felt. I looked at the VIP Mormons sitting all around me, and many of them were crying! I hated every one of them, too, and it was a very frightening feeling. I rationalized this away by believing the words of the dedicatory prayer: that Satan was being cast out of the building. Maybe this was his final goodbye? Afterwards, many of the crying people said that they saw a vision of the heavens opening up. My GA relative did not see the vision, however.

When I actually went to the temple, I wasn't anticipating anything evil at all--but it creeped me out. It was when they had the blood oaths, and I actually crossed my fingers, and prayed to God, "I don't mean it, God, I don't mean it, God!" For someone as spiritual as I was, all of this was truly frightening. In real life, I was fearless--not afraid of the dark or of ghosts or burglars, etc--but Mormonism scared the s*!t out of me!

BTW, I don't believe in Satan, but I do believe in EVIL. I have a testimony that Mormonism is an evil cult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2012 11:55PM by Alice.

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Posted by: enoughenoch19 ( )
Date: January 22, 2012 01:54AM

Oh Alice!.......your statements literally made me shiver. What you went through in the temple when you crossed your fingers and said you didn't mean it must have been absolutely terrifying. I believe in evil too, not in Satan. But I think evil may be noticed/experienced in different ways depending on the person.
Being apart of any organization that sanctions/invites/obeys evil forces/personages is terrifying and just plain wrong.

I would have been real nervous too when (at the temple dedication) Satan was cast out of the building and some said the HEAVENS opened up.........really? heavens opened for Satan? What was Satan doing in the temple before it was dedicated anyway? Satan seems to be everywhere where Mormons are? Imagine that! It that normal to "rid" any new temple of Satan during the dedication? Why all of the focus on Satan? Something's up.

You mentioned that you kept quiet about it until now. Do you think other people in the temple with you or any other time feel like you did? Has anyone ever said anything to you? Because I am very surprised that the temple attendees don't notice all of the Satan stuff or discount it for some reason when it terrified you. You can't be the only one. I watched it on the internet and got frightened.

Many Germans didn't seem to know how evil Hitler was either until he showed them. But, in his book Mein Kampf, (written in 1923 or so...way before he came to power) Hitler wrote his plans out in some detail. Yet many people either ignored it or chose to be in denial. Apparently TSCC is not hiding the obedience/sanctioning of Satan either. Supposedly Satan is right there in the temple telling the attendees what to do and being prayed to by Adam. So I guess the same thing is happening there (or close to it) which happened with Hitler and Germany......denial, denial. Or scared to tell anyone like you were. Not that I blame you of course, especially with GA in your family. I am keeping my fingers crossed like you did, only mine are crossed for you for good luck for you even though I'm not very superstitious. Even though you have GA in the family, they can't get the best of you, they just can't.

I do imagine that with relatives who are GAs, it is going to be hard to leave, but I hope you have been able to or will be able to. You deserve better than this. Lots better. I can tell you are intelligent. I have a testimony that Mormonism is an evil cult too!

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: January 22, 2012 10:12AM

This is confusing because Mormonism has to be one of the most deceptive and fraudulent cults on the planet. So, if they worship God, then their God is also a liar as is shown in the temple. However they call Satan the father of all lies. Is this another lie? Is the God they worship - the Mormon "God", the real father of lies? They seem to see lying as noble and truth telling as something for the untermenschen to worry about in their PPIs.

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Posted by: cl2 (not logged on) ( )
Date: January 22, 2012 10:49AM

The prayer circle was always shocking to me. I haven't been since they took out the Pay Lay Ale (or however you spell it). Then I was watching Big Love and when they did the prayer circle--I was shocked that I had ever participated in something that seemed so basically "satanic." I also don't believe in satan--considering I made it out of mormonism and lost my fear of satan--but I also believe in evil.

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Posted by: What is Wanted ( )
Date: January 22, 2012 10:58AM

"God created billions of planets, why did he send Satan down to Earth when he could have sent him anywhere in the Universe?"

Of course we all know you send your best salesman where you want the most sales...lol

Satan is the most productive player on Gods Team :) God sends Satan down to Earth, gives him the priesthood and billions of salesman to help him.

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Posted by: enoughenoch19 ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 12:35AM

Mia has mentioned a topic I did not know about until now. That is that NOBODY tells future temple attendees what to expect in the temple. This is really surprising......although it shouldn't be since everything is a secret or a lie with TSCC.

I always thought the secret was that temple TBMs were forbidden to tell outsiders (nonmos and non temple mos) about anything in the temple, but the reality is that even the people going to the temple have the info kept secret from them. WOW and WOW again.

Another poster mentioned that most mos don't go to the temple. Aren't they pressured to go? Isn't that supposed to be a goal of mo-ism? If you are not planning on going to the celestial kingdom, why bother at all? The VTs, HTs etc. pressure people to prepare for the temple don't they?

Anyone who has been there, thanks for responding.

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