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It is not given to me to say the month, the day,
or the hour; but it is given unto me to say that that time is nigh at hand. The time is drawing near (much nearer
than scarcely any of us can now comprehend) when Joseph will be clothed upon with immortality, when his
brother Hyrum will be clothed upon with immortality, when the martyrs will be raised from the dead, together
with their faithful brethren who have performed a good mission in the spirit world − they, too, will be called
to assist in the work of the glorious resurrection. The Lord Jesus, who was the first fruits of the dead, the first
fruit of them that sleep, and who holds the keys of the resurrection, will bring to pass the resurrection of the
Prophet Joseph and his brethren, and will set them to work in bringing about the resurrection of their brethren
as He has set them to work in all the other branches of the labor from the beginning. And the Lord Jesus will
appear and show Himself unto His servants in His temple in holy places, to counsel and instruct and direct. He
will appear in the glory of His Father, in His resurrected body, among those who can endure His presence and
glory. And all this I expect long before He will waste away and destroy the wicked from off the face of the
earth.
-- erastus snow ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erastus_Snow )
***1884***, Journal of Discourses 25:32-34.
http://www.jhuston.com/Documents/jd25.pdf (page 25)
this is 126 years ago. i think most people back then could be able to imagine it would have come sooner =)
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 07:25AM by Nick Humphrey.
or the hour; but it is given unto me to say that that time is nigh at hand. The time is drawing near (much nearer
than scarcely any of us can now comprehend) when Joseph will be clothed upon with immortality, when his
brother Hyrum will be clothed upon with immortality, when the martyrs will be raised from the dead, together
with their faithful brethren who have performed a good mission in the spirit world − they, too, will be called
to assist in the work of the glorious resurrection. The Lord Jesus, who was the first fruits of the dead, the first
fruit of them that sleep, and who holds the keys of the resurrection, will bring to pass the resurrection of the
Prophet Joseph and his brethren, and will set them to work in bringing about the resurrection of their brethren
as He has set them to work in all the other branches of the labor from the beginning. And the Lord Jesus will
appear and show Himself unto His servants in His temple in holy places, to counsel and instruct and direct. He
will appear in the glory of His Father, in His resurrected body, among those who can endure His presence and
glory. And all this I expect long before He will waste away and destroy the wicked from off the face of the
earth.
-- erastus snow ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erastus_Snow )
***1884***, Journal of Discourses 25:32-34.
http://www.jhuston.com/Documents/jd25.pdf (page 25)
this is 126 years ago. i think most people back then could be able to imagine it would have come sooner =)
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 07:25AM by Nick Humphrey.
I bloody hope not!
What a load of *!#*.
Why oh why did I ever believe.
freedom is sweet
Why oh why did I ever believe.
freedom is sweet
I think it's time we faced facts.
He's not coming, put away the party poppers and start eating the cake...
He's not coming, put away the party poppers and start eating the cake...
http://mormonfundamentalism.org/critics/joseph-smith-is-resurrected/
Apart from the testimony of Lorin Woolley, two other men who had John Taylor stay at their home left their witness that the Prophet Joseph had been visiting President John Taylor during the time he was in hiding. The first was whilst he was at the William Hill home, during part of 1885, when “he was visited at least once by Joseph Smith” according to two Hill and Barbara O. Kelsch. (8)»
Hill manuscript collection, LDS Church Archives.
Powered by Hackadelic Sliding Notes 1.6.4The second occasion was in the summer of 1886, when Taylor “had been conversing with the Prophet Joseph Smith” at the Alfred Carlisle home, according to Carlisle himself, (9)»
Alfred Carlisle, submitted to LDS Archives, April 1978.
Powered by Hackadelic Sliding Notes 1.6.4Philo Dibble (who confirmed Joseph had come “in his body”), (10)»
John Moon Clements journal, 31 July 1886.
Powered by Hackadelic Sliding Notes 1.6.4and Marriner W. Merrill, (11)»
Abraham H. Cannon Journal, July 7th, 1891.
Powered by Hackadelic Sliding Notes 1.6.4who was told of it by John Taylor himself.
8. Hill manuscript collection, LDS Church Archives.
9. Alfred Carlisle, submitted to LDS Archives, April 1978.
10. John Moon Clements journal, 31 July 1886.
11. Abraham H. Cannon Journal, July 7th, 1891
Apart from the testimony of Lorin Woolley, two other men who had John Taylor stay at their home left their witness that the Prophet Joseph had been visiting President John Taylor during the time he was in hiding. The first was whilst he was at the William Hill home, during part of 1885, when “he was visited at least once by Joseph Smith” according to two Hill and Barbara O. Kelsch. (8)»
Hill manuscript collection, LDS Church Archives.
Powered by Hackadelic Sliding Notes 1.6.4The second occasion was in the summer of 1886, when Taylor “had been conversing with the Prophet Joseph Smith” at the Alfred Carlisle home, according to Carlisle himself, (9)»
Alfred Carlisle, submitted to LDS Archives, April 1978.
Powered by Hackadelic Sliding Notes 1.6.4Philo Dibble (who confirmed Joseph had come “in his body”), (10)»
John Moon Clements journal, 31 July 1886.
Powered by Hackadelic Sliding Notes 1.6.4and Marriner W. Merrill, (11)»
Abraham H. Cannon Journal, July 7th, 1891.
Powered by Hackadelic Sliding Notes 1.6.4who was told of it by John Taylor himself.
8. Hill manuscript collection, LDS Church Archives.
9. Alfred Carlisle, submitted to LDS Archives, April 1978.
10. John Moon Clements journal, 31 July 1886.
11. Abraham H. Cannon Journal, July 7th, 1891
first off, the site you linked to was from a "mormon fundamentalist" webpage =)
second, did john taylor himself ever give an accounting of this visitation by joseph smith? =)
woolley didnt give his account until 1912. so joseph smith visits john taylor as a resurrected being. "gee i think i'll wait 26 years before i tell anybody"
lmao =) this is a recurring theme in lds church history. wait a couple of decades, THEN tell about it.
not quite consistent with the story of the mary's at jesus' tomb is it?
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/28/1-7#1
rewritten for woolley:
"And go quickly, wait 26 years and then tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead;"
"
Woolley was excommunicated from the LDS Church in January 1924 for publicizing that LDS Church leaders had taken plural wives after the 1890 Manifesto.
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorin_C._Woolley
the other LESS TALKED ABOUT part of woolley's account is:
"
the following day Taylor allegedly set apart five men (including John, Lorin, and George Q. Cannon) as apostles, with a special commission to keep alive celestial plural marriage by granting them the authority to set apart others in perpetuity. This account is disputed by Latter-day Saint scholars.
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wickersham_Woolley#Involvement_with_Mormon_Fundamentalism
Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 08:57AM by Nick Humphrey.
second, did john taylor himself ever give an accounting of this visitation by joseph smith? =)
woolley didnt give his account until 1912. so joseph smith visits john taylor as a resurrected being. "gee i think i'll wait 26 years before i tell anybody"
lmao =) this is a recurring theme in lds church history. wait a couple of decades, THEN tell about it.
not quite consistent with the story of the mary's at jesus' tomb is it?
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/28/1-7#1
rewritten for woolley:
"And go quickly, wait 26 years and then tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead;"
"
Woolley was excommunicated from the LDS Church in January 1924 for publicizing that LDS Church leaders had taken plural wives after the 1890 Manifesto.
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorin_C._Woolley
the other LESS TALKED ABOUT part of woolley's account is:
"
the following day Taylor allegedly set apart five men (including John, Lorin, and George Q. Cannon) as apostles, with a special commission to keep alive celestial plural marriage by granting them the authority to set apart others in perpetuity. This account is disputed by Latter-day Saint scholars.
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wickersham_Woolley#Involvement_with_Mormon_Fundamentalism
Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 08:57AM by Nick Humphrey.
Excommunicated for telling the truth...hmmmm
Jon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excommunicated for telling the truth...hmmmm
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excommunicated for telling the truth...hmmmm
John Taylor probably did write in his journal about his experience. Researchers have noted that Taylor's journal for the particular date are in the First Presidency's vault and therefore not available to confirm or deny the incident that Woolley told about.
I don't know about the Joseph Smith part of the vision or experience, but supposedly Jesus also came and hung around with these guys. John Taylor's grandson, Samuel Taylor, has pointed to a talk given by Spencer Kimball in which Kimball said that Taylor saw Jesus. Sam (with whom I was personally acquainted) said that the only time his grandfather claimed to have seen Jesus was during this encounter, and that Kimball knew about it because he had read John Taylor's journal account.
My understanding is that this is the event from which all Mormon fundamentalists/polygamists get their "authority" or mandate to practice polygamy. Whether it "happened" (i.e., whether those involved had some kind of group hallucination) or whether they all just made it up, I have little doubt that John Taylor wrote about it in his journal. There is someone else--I think it was one of the Cannons--whose journals for the time are also "missing," even though his other journals are publicly available.
It has been a couple of decades or more since I read about this stuff, so I don't remember it in detail (Michael Quinn's polygamy article, which was published long ago in Dialogue), but I have little doubt that John Taylor wrote about this contemporaneously in his journal. If he hadn't, the church would not keep the journal suppressed.
The bitter irony for the Taylor family is that they donated the journals to the church, and then were not allowed to see them again.
I don't know about the Joseph Smith part of the vision or experience, but supposedly Jesus also came and hung around with these guys. John Taylor's grandson, Samuel Taylor, has pointed to a talk given by Spencer Kimball in which Kimball said that Taylor saw Jesus. Sam (with whom I was personally acquainted) said that the only time his grandfather claimed to have seen Jesus was during this encounter, and that Kimball knew about it because he had read John Taylor's journal account.
My understanding is that this is the event from which all Mormon fundamentalists/polygamists get their "authority" or mandate to practice polygamy. Whether it "happened" (i.e., whether those involved had some kind of group hallucination) or whether they all just made it up, I have little doubt that John Taylor wrote about it in his journal. There is someone else--I think it was one of the Cannons--whose journals for the time are also "missing," even though his other journals are publicly available.
It has been a couple of decades or more since I read about this stuff, so I don't remember it in detail (Michael Quinn's polygamy article, which was published long ago in Dialogue), but I have little doubt that John Taylor wrote about this contemporaneously in his journal. If he hadn't, the church would not keep the journal suppressed.
The bitter irony for the Taylor family is that they donated the journals to the church, and then were not allowed to see them again.
Mormonism has been a 'doomsday' cult from day 1. Always predicted the second coming, end of the world. Somehow people overlook all the failed prophesies and still call these men 'inspired'. It's ridiculous. My grandparents told me that it stated in their patriarchal blessings that they'd be alive to witness the second coming...well they're all dead now.
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa ..gasp..HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa..choke..HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!
That's excellent, Makurosu!
That's excellent, Makurosu!